E46 M3 CSL review

07-19-2023

David70 wrote
Not sure where you got 2650 lbs. but in 2017 C&D had it at 2918 lbs. and the price was $46k ($57k in todays $$), would go 114 miles (considering you can't run it to zero seems really low) in a slow, small electric car. Yes BMW could build a lighter car but it comes with a higher price (or they would have done it). Seems like BMW gave up on this idea and has gone more conventional with all new cars.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15078999/2017-bmw-i3-ev-test-review/

The 2017 i3 had a bigger/heavier battery than earlier i3s. So, yes, the 2017 i3 was not the weight I listed. Nor was the REx (i3 with the optional on board gas generator).

Chassis weight stayed the same-- I was just given a point of reference car weight/battery weight.

Not sure what the relevance of EV battery range is when I was discussing an ICEV drivetrain. But, having owned a 2017 i3-- 114 miles is fine for 99% of driving needs (considering every day it started out fully charged). Excessive, really. Only for a road trip was it insufficient. I think I used a public charger <5 times in 70,000 miles of use, and the first one of those was just to try it out and see how it was.

Inflation adjusted the CSL was $120,000 in today's dollars. i3 launched at $42k. No matter how you calculate it, inflation adjusted the i3 cost half as much as the CSL.

07-19-2023

Obioban wrote
Massively improves on it, with...
3800 lbs of bloat
dead steering
generic power delivery
hideous exterior
choices of a torque convertor automatic or shitty manual trans

It's heavy yes... but it also serves a different market and offers things the older CSL didn't WHILE still being fast. It's not my preference for sure... but I wouldn't want to driver a CSL for longer than 50 miles.

Obioban wrote
It's hard to find an all BMW comparison test that the CSL doesn't win these days. If anything, it's fame/notoriety is growing faster than ever.

Correct, it's a collector car... one that was VERY limited in production and we didn't even get here in the USA. The formula for this car is very simple... just remove as much weight as possible and throw on race slicks. Very easy to do it if not being sold as production... on frankly a LOT Of cars. It's impossible today due to safety regulations for BMW... the civic type R ran a 7:44 with Front Wheel Drive and Less power lol...

Obioban wrote
The i3 proves that BMW could easily, EASILY make a lighter car, if they still cared enough to put in the effort.

The i3 was 2650 lbs, with a 700 lb battery pack on board.

Build a sedan chassis uses the same CFRP production techniques as the i3, throw in an updated N52 (alu/magnesium block that weighed 328 lbs fully dressed), and you'd have a sub 2500 lb 4 seater with a 300 NA hp that would get better fuel economy than any of the turbo junk they're selling today, that's safer than any car they sell today.

They don't because they don't care anymore, and selling turbo automatic EPS crossovers is easy.

The car described above would be a modern day equivalent of the leap over everything else than the CSL was. It doesn't even have to be stupidly expensive-- i3 prices started in the 40s, and the EV drivetrain was more expensive than the ICE drivetrain. Not the generic standard car with different software. BMW just doesn't care anymore.

BMW cannot build a car for 10 people around the world... common sense, cmon... get yourself a Toyota 86 and you are very close to your description.

07-19-2023

Obioban wrote
Massively improves on it, with...
3800 lbs of bloat
dead steering
generic power delivery
hideous exterior
choices of a torque convertor automatic or shitty manual trans

This is Taskmaster - did you sell your 1 series as well?

07-20-2023

AmuroRay wrote
This is Taskmaster - did you sell your 1 series as well?

I have no idea what you're talking about, but no. Just bought my first ever 1 series last week, in fact.

07-20-2023

ASAP wrote
It's heavy yes... but it also serves a different market and offers things the older CSL didn't WHILE still being fast. It's not my preference for sure... but I wouldn't want to driver a CSL for longer than 50 miles.

Correct, it's a collector car... one that was VERY limited in production and we didn't even get here in the USA. The formula for this car is very simple... just remove as much weight as possible and throw on race slicks. Very easy to do it if not being sold as production... on frankly a LOT Of cars. It's impossible today due to safety regulations for BMW... the civic type R ran a 7:44 with Front Wheel Drive and Less power lol...

BMW cannot build a car for 10 people around the world... common sense, cmon... get yourself a Toyota 86 and you are very close to your description.

I thought you said it was impossible to build a light weight car anymore and meet safety regs. Are you saying Toyota did the impossible?

Anyway, there's no reason the base 3 (or 1/2) series couldn't be what I described. The i3 was priced like a 3 series, and the ICEV drivetrain is cheaper than the EV drivetrain/battery in the i3. A sub 2500 lb car with an updated N52 would get crazy good MPG, so meeting modern regs for that crap wouldn't be an issue. All they had to do was care... which BMW has long since stopped doing.

BMW built their reputation on making a small, light, sporty, fun car, in a sea of boring, heavy, large cars (the 2002). What I'm describing is exactly in keeping with that.

They're just another generic car company these days, offering a 2L 4 cylinder turbo, a 3L 6 cylinder turbo, or a 3L 8 cylinder turbo, pair with EPS and a ZF 8 speed, predominately selling crossovers to soccer moms. Seriously... what company doesn't the above describe :rolleyes:

07-20-2023

Obioban wrote
I thought you said it was impossible to build a light weight car anymore and meet safety regs. Are you saying Toyota did the impossible?

Anyway, there's no reason the base 3 (or 1/2) series couldn't be what I described. The i3 was priced like a 3 series, and the ICEV drivetrain is cheaper than the EV drivetrain/battery in the i3. A sub 2500 lb car with an updated N52 would get crazy good MPG, so meeting modern regs for that crap wouldn't be an issue. All they had to do was care... which BMW has long since stopped doing.

BMW built their reputation on making a small, light, sporty, fun car, in a sea of boring, heavy, large cars (the 2002). What I'm describing is exactly in keeping with that.

They're just another generic car company these days, offering a 2L 4 cylinder turbo, a 3L 6 cylinder turbo, or a 3L 8 cylinder turbo, pair with EPS and a ZF 8 speed. Seriously... what company doesn't the above describe

you may want to do some googling around lol... it seems starting 2024 the Toyota 86 may no longer be sold in Europe due to updated safety regulations... so it seems even mighty Toyota didn't think this thru... that's aside the fact that car doesn't even have their motor but is outsourced to Subaru... wait a minue... now that I think about it, do they outsource another car w a zf8 and 6 turbo? omg lol... i cant stop

07-20-2023

ASAP wrote
you may want to do some googling around lol... it seems starting 2024 the Toyota 86 may no longer be sold in Europe due to updated safety regulations... so it seems even mighty Toyota didn't think this thru... that's aside the fact that car doesn't even have their motor but is outsourced to Subaru... wait a minue... now that I think about it, do they outsource another car w a zf8 and 6 turbo? omg lol... i cant stop

So, not sure what the relevance of the 86 not passing safety regs is on a theoretical carbon monocoque sedan.

Nor do I actually think the 86 is actually particularly good-- the clutch is devoid of feel, the steering is devoid of feel, the engine isn't amazing, and it oil starves on track.

... but it's still one of the better enthusiast cars cars on sale today. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You're the one that brought up the 86 as the car to get in the first place. It's not a car I've ever found desirable. If it had steering feel and clutch feel I could probably forgive the engine dynamics and enjoy it as a sporty street car, but, as it sits... not for me.

07-20-2023

Obioban wrote
I have no idea what you're talking about, but no. Just bought my first ever 1 series last week, in fact.

Your brother had one then, TheStig's user avatar

TheStig

07-20-2023

AmuroRay wrote
Your brother had one then, TheStig

Still not sure of the relevance, but, yes, he did have one before he replaced it with an e46 M3.

07-20-2023

Obioban wrote
Still not sure of the relevance, but, yes, he did have one before he replaced it with an e46 M3.

Whatever dude.

07-20-2023

ASAP wrote
It's heavy yes... but it also serves a different market and offers things the older CSL didn't WHILE still being fast. It's not my preference for sure... but I wouldn't want to driver a CSL for longer than 50 miles.

Correct, it's a collector car... one that was VERY limited in production and we didn't even get here in the USA. The formula for this car is very simple... just remove as much weight as possible and throw on race slicks. Very easy to do it if not being sold as production... on frankly a LOT Of cars. It's impossible today due to safety regulations for BMW... the civic type R ran a 7:44 with Front Wheel Drive and Less power lol...

BMW cannot build a car for 10 people around the world... common sense, cmon... get yourself a Toyota 86 and you are very close to your description.

Agreed with everything up to the last part… hard pass on the 86.

07-20-2023

Obioban wrote
Still not sure of the relevance, but, yes, he did have one before he replaced it with an e46 M3.

Don’t bother lol. There’s a reason this kid got banned 428 times.

07-31-2023

ASAP wrote
Discount the S54 motor and lightweight and this car has very little to stand on...

Discount the CSL having probably BMW M's best ever motor, best looking exterior, one of the best interiors, communicative steering, the most important attribute to how a car drives (light weight), and being right sized for a sporty back roads driving experience (while still having a functional back seat and trunk) and the CSL is junk. :thumbsup:

08-02-2023

3002 tii wrote
Don’t bother lol. There’s a reason this kid got banned 428 times.

Still salty for no reason after all this time? Time to move on, I know women who hold less of a grudge.

08-02-2023

AmuroRay wrote
Still salty for no reason after all this time? Time to move on, I know women who hold less of a grudge.

I think I speak for everyone here in that nobody cares about what you have to say. If you think I have a reason to be salty, I honestly don’t recall but apparently you’re the one holding onto something. I just know you’re the guy who set a forum record for repeated bans and you somehow totaled your e92 because you couldn’t keep your eyes on the road. Didn’t you hit a tree or something?

Truthfully I find your posts in conjunction with your general lack of self awareness to be comedic gold. Case in point your earlier reply resembled that of a little girl, sour from being rejected by her crush. :fighting0056:

AmuroRay wrote
Whatever dude.

08-02-2023

3002 tii wrote
I think I speak for everyone here in that nobody cares about what you have to say.

Who is everyone? You and the peanut gallery who can't even tell what an exhaust bracket is?

3002 tii wrote
If you think I have a reason to be salty, I honestly don’t recall but apparently you’re the one holding onto something. I just know you’re the guy who set a forum record for repeated bans and you somehow totaled your e92 because you couldn’t keep your eyes on the road. Didn’t you hit a tree or something?

I don't think about you at all - remember, you were talking about me. Set a record for bans? Hit a tree? Where are you getting this from?

3002 tii wrote
Truthfully I find your posts in conjunction with your general lack of self awareness to be comedic gold. Case in point your earlier reply resembled that of a little girl, sour from being rejected by her crush.

I asked about his brother who had a very nice 1 series and later found himself a Porsche. He pretended to not know, it's not worth talking about it further.

Just like this conversation. Enjoy your life guy

08-02-2023

My first BMW was an '01 325Cic, it wasn't an impressive performer but it got me hooked on the brand. I always admired the E46 CSL but as my father always said, "Champagne taste on a beer budget". After nearly seven years, I got into an E92 335 with a 6MT and after seven years of ownership I intend to keep it till it dies or is killed by another driver.

If I had the budget, I'd either buy a CSL and do a manual swap or explore a Porsche. Better yet, I'd buy an old FJ40 or Defender 90 and keep the E92. There are some cars that you drive for the sheer pleasure of driving while others are simply transportation. Funny how some think they need to argue about cars and others just appreciate them and share experiences.

08-02-2023

AmuroRay wrote
Who is everyone? You and the peanut gallery who can't even tell what an exhaust bracket is?

I don't think about you at all - remember, you were talking about me. Set a record for bans? Hit a tree? Where are you getting this from?

Oh my mistake, you were banned for annoying a one off random user. Oh no wait that’s not how it works, it was many/multiple users who couldn’t stand you.

Again I don’t care to remember the trivial details of your life but are you denying you didn’t total your car in a ridiculous manner if not a tree? And before you decide to clarify the details - don’t… Nobody cares!

Edit - took all but 2 seconds of searching. My mistake, not a tree. You reached for your phone and hit a sign pole, resulting in airbags deployed and car being totaled. Sheesh tree.. what was I thinking? That’s way different!

AmuroRay wrote
He pretended to not know, it's not worth talking about it further.

This is exactly my point. You try so hard to be relevant that you actually think you are in some Bizzaro world. But when the next person brushes you off, you create this narrative “they pretended” to not know.

At the risk of this thread getting further derailed I will stop here. But I know it’s only a matter of time your nonsensical posts catch up and get you the banstick once again.

I enjoy life everyday.

08-02-2023

I definitely wasn't pretending anything :help:

08-02-2023

Obioban wrote
I definitely wasn't pretending anything

Then my bad man, I was just curious what happened to him and his Porsche. His 1 series was a solid build.

08-17-2023

Reality is I can't afford more than one car at that level so I choose something modern.

08-18-2023

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E46 M3 CSL review