dradernh wrote

Full disclosure: I tune in to F1 very infrequently. That's because, I think, and as one who does tune-in only rarely, most of what I've observed have been processions. That is, little in the way of what I think of as racing.

Having observed from afar the vagaries of total studs' results after changing teams, a total noob like myself feels compelled to ask the experts: is it more about the driver, the car, or some identifiable and communicable combination of the two?

My purpose in asking is that I'm a very technically oriented person, and I'd like to get enthused about F1 if there's space in there for me to do so.

All replies gratefully accepted!

G30M wrote

so why is the answer both?

well let's look at Max, he can't win without a good car, he's even said he needs a new car or he won't show up at the paddock!

let's also look at Lando and Oscar in Monza, they both have the best car (see quali results) and last race neither of them could win. 2 races ago when Lando was P1 Oscar was a lap down or nearly a lap down.

definitely need both

M3Sleeper wrote

Its obviously both its just a matter of what percentage of car VS driver.

I think its probably around 60% the car and 40% the driver.

If you asked the same question 25 years ago it would have been 60% driver and 40% car.

so to be safe I say 50/50. You can't win without a fast car and your not winning without a good driver. All the F1 drivers are good but Max is better. He has a better mindset, not a puss, he works hard, focused, and stays in his lane..not literally

AmuroRay wrote

I think Max is good, but I honestly believe this fandom is overrating the guy. He had the fastest car over the year in 2021, and wasn’t on form at rhe beginning of the season until it was comfortably faster than MB/Lewis.

Fastest car in the second half of 2022, all of 2023 and the beginning of 2024 - he faces ZERO pressure from anyone because his teammates are pushovers or rookies, and when he does have pressure he is erratic, flustered, mistake prone and a danger to his peers.

The current regulars suit his driving style, as did the 2021 regulation change which was suited to benefit his car. But outside of that, he’s talented but he’s not otherworldly. He has a car that’s on Par with McLaren more so than anything else - Horner outright admitted that they had a pace advantage in a race Max didn’t win (and this was despite him having pole I believe)

He’s good, but the car is doing some heavy lifting as well. People act like he could win in a tractor when RB has been at WORST 2nd fastest on average each season, and outright thr fastest the majority of the last 4 seasons.

The car absolutely matters.

AmuroRay wrote

I think Max is good, but I honestly believe this fandom is overrating the guy. He had the fastest car over the year in 2021, and wasn’t on form at rhe beginning of the season until it was comfortably faster than MB/Lewis.

Fastest car in the second half of 2022, all of 2023 and the beginning of 2024 - he faces ZERO pressure from anyone because his teammates are pushovers or rookies, and when he does have pressure he is erratic, flustered, mistake prone and a danger to his peers.

The current regulars suit his driving style, as did the 2021 regulation change which was suited to benefit his car. But outside of that, he’s talented but he’s not otherworldly. He has a car that’s on Par with McLaren more so than anything else - Horner outright admitted that they had a pace advantage in a race Max didn’t win (and this was despite him having pole I believe)

He’s good, but the car is doing some heavy lifting as well. People act like he could win in a tractor when RB has been at WORST 2nd fastest on average each season, and outright thr fastest the majority of the last 4 seasons.

The car absolutely matters.

six_timer wrote

This is the opposite of common opinion. The Red Bull is believed to be quite a bit off the pace of the top teams, as evidenced by the fact that nobody can get any performance from the #2 car. If you look at all the teams, the lap times of the 2 cars are mostly paired-up, except for the Red Bulls.

What are the odds that without Max, both Red Bulls would be mid-pack cars? I'd say there's much more evidence for the argument that Lewis is the one who can only win with a top car, rather than Max.