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Originally Posted by claykin
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Originally Posted by LexxM3
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Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm
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Originally Posted by gpitts
I would say that my experience with the G05 is anything unlike prior BMW purchases. WAY more issues driving off the lot than prior models. Hence the firmware updates... BMW really rushed the G05. It needed more validation time without question.
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Let me ask you this since you have had a history of BMW ownership. What would you say the % split is of issues if you put them into these two buckets?
1. Thought to be software related
2. Non software related (quality, hardware, electrical, workmanship) |
It's an interesting question because the customer & dealer service departments may be mislead as follows: some or maybe even most ECU replacements I've read about here were presented as a mechanical repair, but my 30 year engineering experience interpretation of most of those cases sounded like software/firmware/configuration/integration issues. But dealers are not equipped to deal with software bugs or software design defects of any complexity and are definitely not compensated to do any more software debugging or diagnostics than flashing software updates, so they end up replacing parts. Sometimes that doesn't work, but often it does as new ECUs will often be configured cleanly from factory and will often have updated firmware. As well, the act of resetting systems to stock resolves many many software bugs — it's quite a "tradition" now (how many times do you hear "reboot" in daily life now).
So in light of above theory, I would opine that G05 X5 is actually mechanically above average relative to older bimmers, but the software issues completely obliterate the observed system-level reliability achieved by the mechanics. |
It's highly unlikely dealers will advance beyond basic diagnostics and parts swappers. It's going to take BMW creating better tools for their distributors (BMWNA, in this case) and/or dealers to properly diagnose issues. In a few years it will be the norm for dealers to connect cars to remote diagnostic systems and have remote parties diagnose and approve (most) repairs. We're part of the way there, but not quite yet. |
"Diagnosing" software defects is not even slightly the same as diagnosing manufacturing or wear&tear issues, so I am not really sure what you mean. First thing BMW needs to do is start collecting actual software defect information from the field and the best (by many orders of magnitude) source of that is customers. To be sure, that's just the start of the right approach, nowhere near the end or only thing, but they don't even understand the basic starting point.