[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

So I know I'm now getting screwed if I should decide to lease. Can someone point me to a know reliable calculator so I can have some numbers when/if I go that route? I have a deal sheet and have been told money factor, residual, sales price and TTL. When I google search, I get a litany of ad results and get stuck in an infinite loop.
Thanks in advance

[TurtleBoy]

Leasehackr has one of the best lease calculators out there. I created a spreadsheet to calculate the payments so if you have problems with it just post all of the data I, or someone else, can calculate it.

https://leasehackr.com/calculator

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Thank you TB - I just found that one and went to work. My numbers aren't adding up to what dealer gave me, and I'm not sure why. I'm gonna throw this out there - I asked for money factory (they told me 0.0024) and residual (they told me 49%). The figures they calculated without showing math came up higher than what I have been coming to.

Sales Price 71,295
Government Fee 336.50
Doc Fee 425.00
ECP/Nitro PACK 399.99
Total Taxes 4,480.94
Total 76,937.43

I just asked hit to write something up and didn't talk seriously - Not sure what ECP/Nitro Pack means (sounds like some BS). I'm in Louisiana, we add monthly sales tax to base payment, and I think only tax on depreciation portion
My State+Local sales tax is 9.6% I believe

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

Thank you TB - I just found that one and went to work. My numbers aren't adding up to what dealer gave me, and I'm not sure why. I'm gonna throw this out there - I asked for money factory (they told me 0.0024) and residual (they told me 49%). The figures they calculated without showing math came up higher than what I have been coming to.

Sales Price 71,295
Government Fee 336.50
Doc Fee 425.00
ECP/Nitro PACK 399.99
Total Taxes 4,480.94
Total 76,937.43

I just asked hit to write something up and didn't talk seriously - Not sure what ECP/Nitro Pack means (sounds like some BS). I'm in Louisiana, we add monthly sales tax to base payment, and I think only tax on depreciation portion
My State+Local sales tax is 9.6% I believe

That is a dealer add-on that you should get removed. If you are taxed on the monthly payment then there shouldn't be any taxes in the calculation of the lease amount. They are also missing the Acquisition fee which is 925. Are you buying at MSRP? That is needed for the calculation.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

That is a dealer add-on that you should get removed. If you are taxed on the monthly payment then there shouldn't be any taxes in the calculation of the lease amount. They are also missing the Acquisition fee which is 950. Are you buying at MSRP? That is needed for the calculation.

Haven't negotiated yet, but I that was the first offer they handed me - MSRP. My assumption is that total taxes is divided by number of payments and added (that's how I remember them doing it in Louisiana).

I was in there yesterday, not ready and the salesman asked if I wanted them to "run some numbers" and I said sure, I'll take a look, but didn't divulge how I felt about what I got, because I wasn't prepared to negotiate yet.

Back story is I have a wrecked car (2019 Cayenne) that I believe is about to be declared a total loss, and had some free time so I started the looking process. I'm gonna probably get the final word on that status Monday.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

Haven't negotiated yet, but I that was the first offer they handed me - MSRP. My assumption is that total taxes is divided by number of payments and added (that's how I remember them doing it in Louisiana).

I was in there yesterday, not ready and the salesman asked if I wanted them to "run some numbers" and I said sure, I'll take a look, but didn't divulge how I felt about what I got, because I wasn't prepared to negotiate yet.

Back story is I have a wrecked car (2019 Cayenne) that I believe is about to be declared a total loss, and had some free time so I started the looking process. I'm gonna probably get the final word on that status Monday.

In my opinion you shouldn't use the payment amount when negotiating a lease, actually you shouldn't even tell them you are leasing upfront in my opinion. Negotiate the selling price and after that is settled you can work on how you are going to pay for it, finance, lease, etc. as well as any incentives that you may be eligible. This way there is less of a chance of them hiding stuff in the payment.

I thought LA did tax monthly in the payments rather than upfront but maybe they do. Given the numbers you posted, wrapping everything into the lease it would be a monthly payment of $1,435.24. You still need to account for the ACQ fee though. What did they give you?

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

In my opinion you shouldn't use the payment amount when negotiating a lease, actually you shouldn't even tell them you are leasing upfront in my opinion. Negotiate the selling price and after that is settled you can work on how you are going to pay for it, finance, lease, etc. as well as any incentives that you may be eligible. This way there is less of a chance of them hiding stuff in the payment.

I thought LA did tax monthly in the payments rather than upfront but maybe they do. Given the numbers you posted, wrapping everything into the lease it would be a monthly payment of $1,435.24. You still need to account for the ACQ fee though. What did they give you?

You are right about Louisiana - tax is in with monthly payments, I think they were just listing it so I would know what the total taxes were perhaps? I thought I remembered that the taxed part is the selling price - the residual which is then added in equal amounts to each payment (does that make sense). Its been a lot of years sense I've leased a car.

I'm attaching what they gave me. They didn't show their math, and I didn't even check numbers. Didn't pull or check credit, so, I guess this is just a start the process "offer". I didn't ask or request purchase or lease in particular and didn't even discuss price.

I'm gonna add that those lease numbers seem high to me? Again lot of years since I've leased a car, and I may be out of touch, but seemed like it is a lot to be paying for a lease on that car?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

You are right about Louisiana - tax is in with monthly payments, I think they were just listing it so I would know what the total taxes were perhaps? I thought I remembered that the taxed part is the selling price - the residual which is then added in equal amounts to each payment (does that make sense). Its been a lot of years sense I've leased a car.

I'm attaching what they gave me. They didn't show their math, and I didn't even check numbers. Didn't pull or check credit, so, I guess this is just a start the process "offer". I didn't ask or request purchase or lease in particular and didn't even discuss price.

I'm gonna add that those lease numbers seem high to me? Again lot of years since I've leased a car, and I may be out of touch, but seemed like it is a lot to be paying for a lease on that car?

You are being taxed on the amount you pay each month which is the depreciation.

In many cases there is no negotiation anymore, it is an MSRP deal. That has been changing recently but many are still sticking to the MSRP pricing so don't be surprised if they don't budge.

Things have changed, leasing is pretty expensive nowadays given the lower residuals and the higher MFs with a lack of incentives. There are still reasons to lease but having it be the least expensive way to get the vehicle is rarely one of them.

You really don't want to put anything down on a lease although some like to pay the fees upfront, I have done that in the past. If you take out the taxes and add in the acq fee, your cap cost will be $73,381.49 which will be a pre-tax payment of $1,317.93. If your tax rate is the 9.6% that you mentioned then your monthly payment would be $1,455.41.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

I totally agree with your thinking on a lease and not coming out of pocket with up front money that is not a fee or first payment. I'm not a finance guy at all, and have been very used to buying cars in the time of low interest rates over the last few years. I was thinking that money factor was pretty good converting it to an interest rate. I am not thinking I will drive this car more than 3 years or so, and don't know if its better to finance and just trade on the position I'm in when that time comes or just lease and be done and walk away at the end. I don't want to throw out a big chunk of cash because I have a daughter's wedding that I have a chunk reserved for this time next year.

I was in a very good position on the Cayenne that got wrecked including a very favorable and long lasting CPO warranty so planned on driving it a while. Don't know if I'll feel the same about this car. Thanks for helping, I'll listen to any thoughts or if you're tired of this thread, you've already been a big help!

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

I totally agree with your thinking on a lease and not coming out of pocket with up front money that is not a fee or first payment. I'm not a finance guy at all, and have been very used to buying cars in the time of low interest rates over the last few years. I was thinking that money factor was pretty good converting it to an interest rate. I am not thinking I will drive this car more than 3 years or so, and don't know if its better to finance and just trade on the position I'm in when that time comes or just lease and be done and walk away at the end. I don't want to throw out a big chunk of cash because I have a daughter's wedding that I have a chunk reserved for this time next year.

I was in a very good position on the Cayenne that got wrecked including a very favorable and long lasting CPO warranty so planned on driving it a while. Don't know if I'll feel the same about this car. Thanks for helping, I'll listen to any thoughts or if you're tired of this thread, you've already been a big help!

I rarely tire of talking about this stuff. Given your situation I would think that leasing would likely be the best approach. We can never tell what the future will be like but I doubt that vehicles will be holding value like they have been. Given that, leasing and being able to walk away (you can always buy it if you end up really liking it) will probably be the best path even though in the long run it may not be the least expensive choice but it does give you the most options.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I rarely tire of talking about this stuff. Given your situation I would think that leasing would likely be the best approach. We can never tell what the future will be like but I doubt that vehicles will be holding value like they have been. Given that, leasing and being able to walk away (you can always buy it if you end up really liking it) will probably be the best path even though in the long run it may not be the least expensive choice but it does give you the most options.

I think its interesting discussion for sure - I've been used to buying cars and driving a long time, but the more expensive they get, the more the financial commitment regardless of financing, buying outright, etc becomes distasteful. My way of looking at it is that with the leasing I have less commitment, even though I'm not acquiring a tangible asset.

Do you mind doing the same calc on another build for me - I am assuming the same parameters (money factory, resid, doc/gov fees) would apply, just higher MSRP of 75,595 (includes options and destination fee)? And one more question: what is "rent charge" and what do you use to arrive at that number?

Thank You.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

I think its interesting discussion for sure - I've been used to buying cars and driving a long time, but the more expensive they get, the more the financial commitment regardless of financing, buying outright, etc becomes distasteful. My way of looking at it is that with the leasing I have less commitment, even though I'm not acquiring a tangible asset.

Do you mind doing the same calc on another build for me - I am assuming the same parameters (money factory, resid, doc/gov fees) would apply, just higher MSRP of 75,595 (includes options and destination fee)? And one more question: what is "rent charge" and what do you use to arrive at that number?

Thank You.

Rent charge is the interest based on the money factor. The formula for the monthly amount is (cap cost plus the residual) multiplied by the money factor.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

gotcha, I think the light just came on for me - now i can do back of the napkin even at the dealer if I need to. That's a huge help and I appreciate it. So, if I back out those down payments, it looks like the deal is pretty well on the up and up, I suppose. Just don't know if any room for negotiation at all. They have the one on the lot that I just sent you the MSRP for, only two things I want it doesn't have is ventilated seats (which no one can get on this trim level, I suppose) and interior is black, which I don't love. If I order, I'll go with sillverstone or Cognac.

Are you interested in seeing what an offer for an Audi Q8 looks like just so you can see it? If yes, I'll send attach a PDF when I get back from the gym - I like the drive of that car a whole lot, but really don't like the infotainment and its white on black which doesn't wow me. I feel like it was a better lease offer than what I was getting from BMW, even though the money factor was higher.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

gotcha, I think the light just came on for me - now i can do back of the napkin even at the dealer if I need to. That's a huge help and I appreciate it. So, if I back out those down payments, it looks like the deal is pretty well on the up and up, I suppose. Just don't know if any room for negotiation at all. They have the one on the lot that I just sent you the MSRP for, only two things I want it doesn't have is ventilated seats (which no one can get on this trim level, I suppose) and interior is black, which I don't love. If I order, I'll go with sillverstone or Cognac.

Are you interested in seeing what an offer for an Audi Q8 looks like just so you can see it? If yes, I'll send attach a PDF when I get back from the gym - I like the drive of that car a whole lot, but really don't like the infotainment and its white on black which doesn't wow me. I feel like it was a better lease offer than what I was getting from BMW, even though the money factor was higher.

I did the same and don't think they are really hiding anything in the payment. I would try to at least get the add-on removed and maybe go for a discount since they are becoming more frequent on the 40i's. Maybe start with a 5% discount and see if they are interested at all in discounting.

Sure, why not, it is always good ot se different data.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I did the same and don't think they are really hiding anything in the payment. I would try to at least get the add-on removed and maybe go for a discount since they are becoming more frequent on the 40i's. Maybe start with a 5% discount and see if they are interested at all in discounting.

Sure, why not, it is always good ot se different data.

I'll try that. When I saw Nitro, I thought perhaps it was nitrogen in tires, and I seem to remember green valve stem caps, so maybe?? But surely they wouldn't charge that much for Nitrogen filled tires??

See the PDF on the Q8. I love the car, just don't like the infotainment and white on black is a no go for me unless they were coming with some kind of deal that was too good to pass up.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

I'll try that. When I saw Nitro, I thought perhaps it was nitrogen in tires, and I seem to remember green valve stem caps, so maybe?? But surely they wouldn't charge that much for Nitrogen filled tires??

See the PDF on the Q8. I love the car, just don't like the infotainment and white on black is a no go for me unless they were coming with some kind of deal that was too good to pass up.

I'm sure it is nitrogen and some other stuff, we have seen some dealers charge quite a bit for nitrogen.

I remember when the Q8's were just being introduced I was looking at them and I showed my wife a picture, her response was "what the hell is that?" lol They aren't a bad vehicle but they had quite. a few problems especially with the turbo lag, not sure if they got that fixed yet or not. The deal on that is actually worse than the BMW, the MF equates to over an 8% interest rate although they are discounting a bit. Also the mileage is much less so the RV is higher. With the BMW you are doing 15k miles a year lease and the Audi is 10k. If you went with a 10k on the X5 your payment would drop $60 bucks or so.

[TurtleBoy]

I don't know if you noticed but they are proposing a 48 month lease, that is why the payments are lower.

[BigPapiDoesItAgain]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I don't know if you noticed but they are proposing a 48 month lease, that is why the payments are lower.

I may not have attached the other page, but there is also a 39 month lease offer as well - it was a 1450is/mo payment. That is a dealer that generally looks to snag low-hanging fruit with the first thing they send out. They also have Porsche and I didn't by my Cayenne there, but that's where we got my wife's Q5 and there was some back and forth before getting where I needed to be. In the end it was fine.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BigPapiDoesItAgain

I may not have attached the other page, but there is also a 39 month lease offer as well - it was a 1450is/mo payment. That is a dealer that generally looks to snag low-hanging fruit with the first thing they send out. They also have Porsche and I didn't by my Cayenne there, but that's where we got my wife's Q5 and there was some back and forth before getting where I needed to be. In the end it was fine.

Hopefully you get things worked out with the X5.