[CarsofPat]

Hi all -
I’m facing a major crossroads with our family hauler and looking for some perspective from those who have lived with multiple generations of these platforms.

The Backdrop:
Up until recently, we had a 2013 E70 X5 35d – built in the final two months of production, highly specced including the elusive 3rd row. I absolutely loved this vehicle. The mechanical heft, hydraulic steering, I realize why the E70 holds such a legendary reputation.
Unfortunately, the timing chain recently decided to grenade itself, effectively totaling the engine.

The Current Situation: With 2 small kids at home, I’m reluctantly realizing it may be time to move on from my ‘fleet’ of older BMWs – including the 2013 X5d, an F30 3-series, E36 M3, and E39 M5 (+ non BMWs). Between young kids, work, and family – I finally see why a newer, lower milage vehicle would be beneficial. But after a few test-drives, I have my doubts on replacements – I’d really love insights here:

1. The G07 X7 (M Sport / 2022 Spec)
• I like the look - pre-2023 models. Captains chairs and stock 3rd row are particularly enticing.
• The Problem: I test drove one and walked away deeply underwhelmed by the driving experience. The standard 2-axle air suspension felt incredibly spongy, completely filtering out the road. It left me feeling no desire to jump back in.

2. The G05 X5 (w/ the Unicorn 3rd Row)
• To get a 3rd row in a G05, you are automatically locked into the 2-axle factory air suspension (e.g. X7). I test drove a 3-row G05 today and felt the exact same thing: soft steering, lack of front-end road feel, and that same isolated, floaty sensation.

3. The Pivot: Porsche?
If I drop the need for a 3rd row (granted with only 2 kid this is a possibility, but we monthly have need for friends, cousins, or adults to use the back seats), and drop down to a 5-seater to maximize handling, it opens a massive curveball. We already have a Porsche Macan in the household, so I know exactly how good Porsche’s chassis dynamics are – especially on air suspension. If I compromise on a 5-seater, I’m highly tempted to skip the G05 entirely and look at a Porsche Cayenne S or GTS.

4. One final Curveball: E70?
Part of me just wants my old car back. I’ve quoted $15K + for an engine swap. But finding a newer version is practically finding a needle in a haystack. I’ve stumbled across some clean E70 35i’s (N55) with 3rd row. It would let me escape the diesel emissions complexities while keeping that exact hydraulic, heavy-steering character I miss—especially if I look for one equipped with Adaptive Drive (S2VAA). Plus my $8K in recent E70 work could swap parts 1:1.

Questions:
• For those who moved from a late-model E70 to a G05/G07: Did you ever get used to the electric steering and air suspension, or do you still miss the mechanical feedback?
• Is there a specific suspension/handling configuration on a newer G05 or G07 (like an M50i/M60i with Dynamic Handling Package/Active Roll Stabilization) that tightens up the chassis enough to bridge the gap, or do they all feel isolated?
• If I drop down to 5 seats, is a Cayenne GTS miles ahead of a standard steel-spring M Sport G05 X5 in terms of raw driving engagement?
• Am I insane for considering going back to a 14-year-old E70 35i as a daily, even with low miles, just to keep the driving dynamics I love?
Many thanks!

[eelnoraa]

I think first and most important question, do you need usable 3rd row or the space is X7? If yes then choice is obvious, right? I will go with x7 as family car, the keep e36M3 as fun car. This car should NOT be in expensive to operate as well.

[minus.spire]

Here ya go

[pizzamoney]

Originally Posted by minus.spire

Here ya go

Hardest pass on any minivan. The only thing happy about a minivan vs an M60i or Cayenne S/GTS would be your wallet.

[minus.spire]

Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need

With other older BMW fun cars already, just get a super reliable, fuel efficient, people mover minivan, that will barely lose any value

[MystroX5]

The X7 and don’t look back. Get the M50/M60 and you will be next level.

I took my 2 kids on 3k mile long extended family vacations to Disney/beach several times a year and couldn’t imagine doing it in anything but a BMW X5/X7. Comfort, safety and power just melted the miles away. The X5 was tight with big luggage but the X7 was absolutely opulent and carried everything with room to spare or even another 3rd row passenger, which I couldn’t believe.

This is a “quality of life” issue for you and your family. You are not just “hauling people” but traveling in style with the most important people in your life. Life is too short as it is to compromise at this level.




FYI: These two large suitcases just fit into the back of a G05 X5 with no room to spare for anything else. The X7 is taller and significantly larger for luggage with 4 passengers.


This is what it looks like fully packed for the second row passenger for a 3 week extended vacation 3k mile trip in a loaded X7. The second row can even recline their captains seats with luggage. My kids used the BMW wifi hotspot with their school laptops for remote school while traveling like a executive on these trips.

No other luxury SUV comes close…

[minus.spire]

I mean, I like the X5 and X7 too, but OP has a valid point - the steering is lifeless and totally disconnected.

As in any modern BMW, however, communication between the tires and the thick steering wheel is nonexistent. - Car & Driver

Porsche Cayenne is going to be too small, as I'm sure OP knows.

There is a new Audi Q9 that has been revealed, that will also become a Porsche 3-row SUV codenamed K1. Maybe wait for that?

[TurtleBoy]

If you want to stick with the ones mentioned, then the X7 would be the only logical choice. If you want broaden and step down a few pegs, then the minivan or other three row SUVS would fit.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by minus.spire

I mean, I like the X5 and X7 too, but OP has a valid point - the steering is lifeless and totally disconnected.

As in any modern BMW, however, communication between the tires and the thick steering wheel is nonexistent. - Car & Driver

Porsche Cayenne is going to be too small, as I'm sure OP knows.

There is a new Audi Q9 that has been revealed, that will also become a Porsche 3-row SUV codenamed K1. Maybe wait for that?

Every luxury vehicle with electric steering feels this way so this is a new normal just as a drive-by wire pedals were given a similar complaint. It’s a sliding scale with a completely new set of parameters how today’s vehicles feel compared to analog vehicles of a decade ago. “Context” is what is missing when you read these types of critiques.
The new vehicles also have safety, performance and handling the older counterpart couldn’t dream of. It’s all about perspective.

The Audi Q9 interior is train wreck with its uncohesive design from the initial reviews. BMW has nothing to fear from the Q9. This is Audi/VW in its typical design language. The UI looks dated ie.late 90s laptop. This was to push Audi in selling design and other features post sale to correct this blah entry level look as a yearly subscription to fleece their customers to new industry levels. It’s already set a bad tone and the Q9 isnt even released yet.

It will be an interesting next few years. Feel very glad and blessed I own what I have now and keeping it long-term.

[Luftpost]

I can speak to a couple of your questions:

We came from a 2008 E70, which we loved and owned for at least 10 years. My then, new to driving daughter, needed a safe and reliable car to get to school (private school, so the school bus was not an option). BMW was the car of choice for us, so this was a no brainer. It was the straight 6 (N52), not diesel. So from a safety and reliability perspective it was great. Over the entire period of ownership, the only time it left us stranded was when one of the cooling pipes popped off.

The quality of the driving experience of the E70 was excellent. As you mentioned, the steering was perfect, the suspension smooth yet provided solid feedback, but the performance was always lacking with the 3.0 NA. That was always the week point with this car. Your diesel did not have this issue.

So now on to the pre LCI G05 M50i......The technology available is heads and shoulders above the E70. Performance, sound and capability of the V8 is phenomenal. Interior quality is considerably better and more refined than the E70. Ride quality is adjustable with the different variations of Comfort and Sport. The steering was the one Achilles heel. It felt, sterile, light and very Japanese car-ish like. That is easily fixed with Sport Mode or by programming Comfort Plus as is explained in this thread.

I looked at the X7, but my kids are grown, so its just my wife, dog and I. I will keep the M50i for many years, even after I get my next car. To me it is a swiss army knife. Not too big, not too small, decent gas mileage, excellent performance and ride quality. We take it for scenic drives, grocery runs, or long commutes. It handles it all very well.

So yes, the transition to the G05 has been great. No regrets. The E70 was sold to a 94 year old neighbor. We stay in contact.

L

[pizzamoney]

Originally Posted by Luftpost

I can speak to a couple of your questions:

We came from a 2008 E70, which we loved and owned for at least 10 years. My then, new to driving daughter, needed a safe and reliable car to get to school (private school, so the school bus was not an option). BMW was the car of choice for us, so this was a no brainer. It was the straight 6 (N52), not diesel. So from a safety and reliability perspective it was great. Over the entire period of ownership, the only time it left us stranded was when one of the cooling pipes popped off.

The quality of the driving experience of the E70 was excellent. As you mentioned, the steering was perfect, the suspension smooth yet provided solid feedback, but the performance was always lacking with the 3.0 NA. That was always the week point with this car. Your diesel did not have this issue.

So now on to the pre LCI G05 M50i......The technology available is heads and shoulders above the E70. Performance, sound and capability of the V8 is phenomenal. Interior quality is considerably better and more refined than the E70. Ride quality is adjustable with the different variations of Comfort and Sport. The steering was the one Achilles heel. It felt, sterile, light and very Japanese car-ish like. That is easily fixed with Sport Mode or by programming Comfort Plus as is explained in this thread.

I looked at the X7, but my kids are grown, so its just my wife, dog and I. I will keep the M50i for many years, even after I get my next car. To me it is a swiss army knife. Not too big, not too small, decent gas mileage, excellent performance and ride quality. We take it for scenic drives, grocery runs, or long commutes. It handles it all very well.

So yes, the transition to the G05 has been great. No regrets. The E70 was sold to a 94 year old neighbor. We stay in contact.

L

94 years old and buying a vehicle, that is great, love to hear that kind of stuff. Friend of mine recently bought a BMW r1000 sport bike from an 84 year old original owner who had put 20,000 miles on it. Amazing what some can do at these ages is it not.

[minus.spire]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

Every luxury vehicle with electric steering feels this way so this is a new normal just as a drive-by wire pedals were given a similar complaint. It’s a sliding scale with a completely new set of parameters how today’s vehicles feel compared to analog vehicles of a decade ago. “Context” is what is missing when you read these types of critiques.
The new vehicles also have safety, performance and handling the older counterpart couldn’t dream of. It’s all about perspective.

The Audi Q9 interior is train wreck with its uncohesive design from the initial reviews. BMW has nothing to fear from the Q9. This is Audi/VW in its typical design language. The UI looks dated ie.late 90s laptop. This was to push Audi in selling design and other features post sale to correct this blah entry level look as a yearly subscription to fleece their customers to new industry levels. It’s already set a bad tone and the Q9 isnt even released yet.

It will be an interesting next few years. Feel very glad and blessed I own what I have now and keeping it long-term.

I'm sure the Porsche variant of the Q9 will be lots better than the Audi version, but probably double the price as well.

I don't like the passenger screen trend, but it seems like everyone wants to do it now.

Anyway, seems like OP is looking at used models so a 3-row Porsche in 2027/2028 is probably moot.

[chris_ss]

If anyone in your family is over 6’ I’d be tempted to go to a l405 Range Rover. I had one recently as a rental and the rear seat space was excellent.

Also, air ride takes some getting used to. The first time I drove when I was convinced that the shocks were blown. Now I feel like my m50i on coils is physically abusing me.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by minus.spire

I'm sure the Porsche variant of the Q9 will be lots better than the Audi version, but probably double the price as well.

I don't like the passenger screen trend, but it seems like everyone wants to do it now.

Anyway, seems like OP is looking at used models so a 3-row Porsche in 2027/2028 is probably moot.

No, doubt and the model I would go with if I had to replace mine. As a Porsche-centric owner now I have been waiting for 6 years for the full size Porsche SUV. Obviously this Porsche variant is going to be closer to the starting point of $200k. The Audi seems unfocused and I could see VW actually making theirs and being a better way to go at a significantly lower price point with the same tech and general Audi design. Either go high end with Porsche or down market with VW and skip the Audi.

The passenger screens seem like a “follow the leader” design que to see if it holds any appeal. The upcharge for this option seems like another money grab.
BMW and Porsche claim real physical buttons will be making a comeback. We will see….

[CarsofPat]

Originally Posted by chris_ss

The first time I drove when I was convinced that the shocks were blown. Now I feel like my m50i on coils is physically abusing me.

Too funny.

My daughter wants a minivan, and another baby - in that order.

I appreciate many leaning towards the X7 - and having 1 big+luxury+competent handler in the family is nudging it's way to top choice. That or finding another E70 which honestly is getting difficult.

Good discussion, loving the pictures.

[CarsofPat]

Originally Posted by Luftpost

I can speak to a couple of your questions:

We came from a 2008 E70, which we loved and owned for at least 10 years. My then, new to driving daughter, needed a safe and reliable car to get to school (private school, so the school bus was not an option). BMW was the car of choice for us, so this was a no brainer. It was the straight 6 (N52), not diesel. So from a safety and reliability perspective it was great. Over the entire period of ownership, the only time it left us stranded was when one of the cooling pipes popped off.

The quality of the driving experience of the E70 was excellent. As you mentioned, the steering was perfect, the suspension smooth yet provided solid feedback, but the performance was always lacking with the 3.0 NA. That was always the week point with this car. Your diesel did not have this issue.

So now on to the pre LCI G05 M50i......The technology available is heads and shoulders above the E70. Performance, sound and capability of the V8 is phenomenal. Interior quality is considerably better and more refined than the E70. Ride quality is adjustable with the different variations of Comfort and Sport. The steering was the one Achilles heel. It felt, sterile, light and very Japanese car-ish like. That is easily fixed with Sport Mode or by programming Comfort Plus as is explained in this thread.

I looked at the X7, but my kids are grown, so its just my wife, dog and I. I will keep the M50i for many years, even after I get my next car. To me it is a swiss army knife. Not too big, not too small, decent gas mileage, excellent performance and ride quality. We take it for scenic drives, grocery runs, or long commutes. It handles it all very well.

So yes, the transition to the G05 has been great. No regrets. The E70 was sold to a 94 year old neighbor. We stay in contact.

L

Very much enjoyed this read from the ownership experience perspective

[CarsofPat]

Originally Posted by minus.spire

Here ya go

Oh yea.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by CarsofPat

Very much enjoyed this read from the ownership experience perspective

I will second his opinion in that I would have been very happy with a smaller X5 M50i if my kids didn’t travel with us.
The X7 rides nicer on many levels but a fully optioned X5 M50i is outstanding.
I did it with the X5 and it’s a beast of a long distance rig, with air suspension.
The X5/X6 is large enough for my wife and I and all our long distance travels.

[CarsofPat]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think first and most important question, do you need usable 3rd row or the space is X7? If yes then choice is obvious, right? I will go with x7 as family car, the keep e36M3 as fun car. This car should NOT be in expensive to operate as well.

3rd row is not a MUST (family of 4), but i find it incredibly useful to have extra seats for friends and extended family. Plus we routinely fill the X5 to the brim and require the thule box. We do enjoy a bit of camping on the roof as well.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by CarsofPat

3rd row is not a MUST (family of 4), but i find it incredibly useful to have extra seats for friends and extended family. Plus we routinely fill the X5 to the brim and require the thule box. We do enjoy a bit of camping on the roof as well.

Sound like the choice is clear.

[pizzamoney]

Originally Posted by CarsofPat

3rd row is not a MUST (family of 4), but i find it incredibly useful to have extra seats for friends and extended family. Plus we routinely fill the X5 to the brim and require the thule box. We do enjoy a bit of camping on the roof as well.

That is a damn good looking X5.

[minus.spire]

Originally Posted by CarsofPat

Oh yea.

I love this trend!