[cfm56d7b]

The demise of manual transmissions could be easily anticipated when ....

1. Modern automatic transmissions began to arrive with up to 10 speeds
2. Emission standards became more stringent, making hybrid technology more popular

It's easier to integrate hybrid powertrains with a modern 8-speed+ automatic transmissions while carefully managing engine's optimum efficiency range and emissions.

The US sales statistics suggest that manual transmissions represent less than 3% of all sales.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by mckman

There was a time not long ago when a BMW was the "Ultimate Driving Machine”. There were just a few M cars and they all stood out in the marketplace. They may not have been the fastest, but they were always engaging and handled well. BMW M has been trading on that history for quite some time. An “M car” now stretches from a simple appearance package to a plug-in hybrid and soon an EV. What does it even mean to be a modern “M car”? Can they really create 30 new models that each embody a concise brand statement besides simply having an M badge?

BMW has made a lot of money the past few decades selling the M badge. However, when you drive cars from other brands you realize that M cars have lost their soul. It isn't simply about the performance numbers, but the way they drive (with some exceptions). BMWs are no longer the "Ultimate Driving Machine". So tell me BMW, in a a few concise paragraphs what is an M car and what makes it special?

GT3 perhaps. Last weekend I watched BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, Ford, and Corvette for 12 hours race at qualifying times around a 6.2km track up and down a mountain.

BMW took out First and Second 2024, Third and Fourth 2025. BMW's 6cly 3lt turbo inline six, the smallest motor in the field kept up with Mercedes 6.3 V8 and Audi's V10 easily. There was 6.9 seconds from First to Third with the BMW dropping the challenge last lap other wise it would have been <2 seconds after 1240 mile of hard racing.

The mustang hit a kangaroo first lap which was good as it doesn't belong there. The much cheaper and also subsidized Corvette did itself proud but had a mechanical failure 2 laps to go. To be honest it was amazing to see so few retirements, but the BMW is significantly cheaper and more practical then the rest of the field.

[windtendo]

Originally Posted by xlover

I guess getting to 30 isn’t that hard
M350, ice m3, i3m60, iM3

That’s 4 just from a single category

The addition of an electric and hybrid m performance models accross the lineup as they turn over add to the ice m performance models. Then some pure electric m models along side ice m models…. Ya it’s gonna get busy…

Example x5 M60, x5 M60e, iX5 M70. That’s 3 before the full M models

And then add a convertible variant to these and you have even more models from the same platform.

[cronut]

The only thing that matters from the article on the interview is their direction WRT manual transmissions for me. Author mentions "in the next decade." Note that it doesn't state "into the next decade" so there is wiggle room as to when they will stop production of manual transmission offerings.

Secondly, the CEO stated he will wait and see how demand plays out for electrified M vehicles to adjust future direction on vehicle mix and platforms. He stated that BMW had to adjust their offering roadmap due to regulations, but now that those EV mandates are being dialed back, he took a wait and see stance. He also mentioned giving customers what they want.

I HIGHLY doubt that ZF said they weren't interested in developing new manual transmissions for any automaker including BMW. It is a matter of cost. I don't know about other manual enthusiasts but I don't care if hp is limited to 500 or whatever. It is quick enough for a daily driver vehicle. Besides, I am sure other manufacturers would be interested in providing a higher spec manual transmission.

Tremec? Japanese transmission supplier Fuji heavy industries? Other manufacturers can step up. I would love a Tremec transmission in my BMW.

Fact is BMW has only been committed to the EV route after years of inaction, but regulations forced their hand to make the change. Now that EV regulations have been dialed back, they have a much freer hand but now must recoup those multi-year investments. So of course, the CEO is going to say BMW is committed to EV technology. He did, however, confirm that BMW is committed to ICE indefinitely, so there is that (conducive for offering real manual transmission vehicles).

If he reiterated that BMW would cease manual offerings as of MY 2028, I think he would have said so. This just confirms my belief that manual transmission vehicles will still be offered into the 2030s. If HP is REALLY the issue (which I don't think it is - just an excuse), then BMW could offer it only on the 330s or a M3 capped at 500hp. Add a real limited slip differential and that would sell like hotcakes or cronuts.

This is just classic pull-forward strategy in marketing, much like we have all seen in supplier ordering and FOMO purchases on dwindling supply of a variety of manufactured products. Look at toilet paper during Covid! Do you see parallels? Look at retail sales history for the US economy. This is why I think retail sales have peaked and will fade a little going into Q4 this year. Auto buyers who finance their purchases are already feeling a lot of heat. I believe this is where the fire will start in the second leg of asset markets pull-backs. AI capex returns will come into clearer focus next year. I don't think the consumer/wage earner will be pleased.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

The demise of manual transmissions could be easily anticipated when ....

1. Modern automatic transmissions began to arrive with up to 10 speeds
2. Emission standards became more stringent, making hybrid technology more popular

It's easier to integrate hybrid powertrains with a modern 8-speed+ automatic transmissions while carefully managing engine's optimum efficiency range and emissions.

The US sales statistics suggest that manual transmissions represent less than 3% of all sales.

I say this as someone who loves MT and has it on two out of three cars I own:

The truth of the matter is that almost no one wants them – most normal people see it as a PITA and more work than they want to do. The large majority of most people's driving is to/from work, which often means sitting at traffic lights, in stop/go traffic, etc., and they find having to clutch-in, clutch-out to be a pain. They see cars as a utility, not a passion, and don't see any point in shifting gears.

It can feel like tons of people want a manual transmission when you read and post in forums like these, enthusiast subreddits, watch enthusiast YouTube channels, etc., but that's really just an echo chamber. We're the vast minority and the market has spoken.

Am I happy about it? Hell no. But reality is what reality is, and expecting it to change is just setting yourself up for disappointment. They're gone, so take care of your 6MT cars and drive them as long as you can. I know I am.

[maverickar15]

Glad I bought the Z4 with manual although its not a true M.

Would love to own an M2 in manual too if given the chance, especially it will be now all gone.

Last time my vehicle was in for service the service manager had to get someone who could drive stick to move my car into the service bay.

[My M3]

Originally Posted by maticCRO

Good to hear ICE engines are not going to the history books of M department yet. Looking forward to seeing them offer iM3, but 99% sure i wont be buying such a car

I second that.

[jaffles]

Reckon if Charge Baby Charge was muttered opposed to what was, EV R&D for most manufacturers would have not stopped like it did.

Reckon once you have driven an EV, got over the range to reality foiba, and worked out how to charge it for free or heaps less than the cost of petrol, there is no debate for ICE to be considered.

I do think manufacturers should unite to make a universal swap and go battery. Or be bullied into it. Petrol is petrol around the world generally. To have a cars battery encapsulated in the body is dumb. Dumb for warranty, dumb if it drops a cell, dumb for resale, dumb for supporting jobs and businesses that are the backbone of transport outside new dealerships. A spark plug is easy to replace (well once was), a battery or cell should be no different.

[JK479]

Just as Infiniti announces the return of the manual- manual bmws are being phased out. The irony here is maybe Infiniti will have a unique product

[Mr. Jonathan]

Why does BMW insist on pushing me toward the M purist camp. 30 M models? I wasn’t even tracking BWM made 30 models total.

[F32Fleet]

I'm reading owners are complaining about the hybrid where the engine shuts off when they slow down to turn onto streets/parking lots.

I'd also like to know if BMW is going to stick with the 0w-12.

[PHX102]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

My ///M will always be the last real M ever

The all wheel drive one?

[FrozenGT]

Hey, just a heads-up that the new M3 is coming in electric and hybrid versions! If you’re curious about the weight, you might want to check out the new Audi RS vehicles. Yes, the M3 will be a hefty 46,470 pounds, so for those of you with a 2025 M3, your vehicle will be the lightest M3 available.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by mckman

There was a time not long ago when a BMW was the "Ultimate Driving Machine”. There were just a few M cars and they all stood out in the marketplace. They may not have been the fastest, but they were always engaging and handled well. BMW M has been trading on that history for quite some time. An “M car” now stretches from a simple appearance package to a plug-in hybrid and soon an EV. What does it even mean to be a modern “M car”? Can they really create 30 new models that each embody a concise brand statement besides simply having an M badge?

BMW has made a lot of money the past few decades selling the M badge. However, when you drive cars from other brands you realize that M cars have lost their soul. It isn't simply about the performance numbers, but the way they drive (with some exceptions). BMWs are no longer the "Ultimate Driving Machine". So tell me BMW, in a a few concise paragraphs what is an M car and what makes it special?

My wife’s 2026 X3 M50. Guess what comes on in the heads up display when you turn on the vehicle an M logo.. they took the X3M cockpit for sport mode and put it in the X3M 50..

[Hotflare]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I say this as someone who loves MT and has it on two out of three cars I own:

The truth of the matter is that almost no one wants them – most normal people see it as a PITA and more work than they want to do. The large majority of most people's driving is to/from work, which often means sitting at traffic lights, in stop/go traffic, etc., and they find having to clutch-in, clutch-out to be a pain. They see cars as a utility, not a passion, and don't see any point in shifting gears.

It can feel like tons of people want a manual transmission when you read and post in forums like these, enthusiast subreddits, watch enthusiast YouTube channels, etc., but that's really just an echo chamber. We're the vast minority and the market has spoken.

Am I happy about it? Hell no. But reality is what reality is, and expecting it to change is just setting yourself up for disappointment. They're gone, so take care of your 6MT cars and drive them as long as you can. I know I am.

Same. Was itching to spec my own g80cx but my 6mt F80 will be staying for years to come. Even tho I’m starting to see high schoolers driving them now hahah

[Brandoch]

I love how everytime there is a new design, model, render, news, anything at all NEW the same people comment. "BMW has lost their way", "Diluting the brand", "M stands for marketing".


News flash......... the world moves on.

EVERY SINGLE AUTOMAKER has to keep up with the changing world. Not just BMW.

Porsche hybrid
AMG 4 cylinder
Dodge Charger EV
Chevy Camaro is gone
Toyota loosing reliability
And the list can go on......

[ASAP]

where exactly is 30 coming from here?

There is the new ice m3 and the ev m3...

Can someone share the other 28 lol?

Oh right... the other 28 are not actually M models...

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

I love how everything there is a new design, model, render, news, anything at all NEW the same people comment. "BMW has lost their way", "Diluting the brand", "M stands for marketing".


News flash......... the world moves on.

EVERY SINGLE AUTOMAKER has to keep up with the changing world. Not just BMW.

Porsche hybrid
AMG 4 cylinder
Dodge Charger EV
Chevy Camaro is gone
Toyota loosing reliability
And the list can go on......

I think the big gripe us enthusiasts have is that this isn’t a choice the manufacturers are making. It’s the governments that are forcing it and it’s so half assed even my 4 year old realizes it’s not possible with the timelines given. They’re already rolling back the mandates and we’re now stuck with a $100k 5500lb electric M3 that no one is going to buy. My wallet appreciates it, but my the little kid in me is crying.

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by PHX102

The all wheel drive one?

This was a joke that typically ever M car owner says their M is the best and the last real M etc. especially when new models are unveiled.

But yes, my M3 is AWD. I love it and the S58 is already legendary but can't argue that it's the greatest M.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by robopp

I think the big gripe us enthusiasts have is that this isn’t a choice the manufacturers are making. It’s the governments that are forcing it and it’s so half assed even my 4 year old realizes it’s not possible with the timelines given. They’re already rolling back the mandates and we’re now stuck with a $100k 5500lb electric M3 that no one is going to buy. My wallet appreciates it, but my the little kid in me is crying.

You mean that you are not going to buy. (Nor am I) But they will fly off the lots.
Consumers be consuming yo.
The new Charger is a HUGE flop and yet in my small town there is now like 5.
"If you make it, they will buy it"
In the world full of crap, BMW is constantly producing pretty big hits. Maybe not to everyone, including myself. But the world is really eating them up right now.

[Kbpolaris]

Originally Posted by NickyC

To me, the current generation CS/CSL are the new ///M cars. The make/brand is far too diluted.

IMO The only true M’s are the M2, M3, M4 & M5, this goes along with the announcement that only those 4 will get the CS treatment moving forward

[Darkniss]

All good, but 30 seems like a lot of different variations to keep track of and support as a manufacturer. Almost going the "cheesecake factory menu" route with a dish for every taste, but nothing is really taste that good.

No need to release variations of each model, lets say the 3 series would have all 4 variations, but the 4 series is ICE only. 5 series in all variations but the 2 series is ICE or hybrid only. No need to make so many variations of every series.