[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Exactly, they are front wheel drive not AWD sometimes and front wheel drive sometimes. This is a silly conversation because we are talking about something that BMW has never brought up. If you think it will be a good idea that is fine but you will never convince me or many others. This all started with weight and that is evidently not an issue when it comes to PHEVs insofar as being a prohibitive factor.

I think they're part time AWD, but overall I agree. They're just gonna make vehicles endlessly more and more heavy.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

It is more than just weight and F/R distribution. FF platform also means engine and transmission layout transversely, on top of front axle. There will be significant weight over hang in front of front axle. There is no way around it. FF platform experts like Honda cannot reduce over hange. The impact is neutral handling, the feel of a balanced chassis. Also there will very difficult to fit a inline6 + transmission transversely in any reasonable width car.

FR with EV motor up front, at least based on my understanding, the package will be tough. Where do you put battery? Where do you out EV motor. I am sure all can be solved, but at what compromise? Even longer good to fit both ice and EV motor? Raise ground clearance to fit drive shaft, exhaust and battery?

And what about RWD cars?

You'd put the electric motor where the front differential goes. The battery goes wherever. Packaging isn't that hard, it's harder to tune the two drivetrains to work together seamlessly.

[mscot]

Originally Posted by redhot47fla

He also repeatedly brought semi-camouflaged political comment into the board.

Semi?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You'd put the electric motor where the front differential goes. The battery goes wherever. Packaging isn't that hard, it's harder to tune the two drivetrains to work together seamlessly.

In current bmw xdrive inline6 turbo car, front drive shaft goes through the oil pan of the engine, at about 1/3 is the way front edge of engine. Front diff is a very small open diff, located on the driver side of the engine. In order to put e motor on the front axle, engine needs to move rearward. It means longer good, passenger cabin is further back. Like I said, nothing is impossible, but at what cost vs gain.

May I ask why do you think Volvo way is better than bmw way? This part I don’t get.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

In current bmw xdrive inline6 car, front drive shaft goes through the oil pan of the engine, at about 1/3 is the way front edge of engine . In order to put e motor on the front axle, engine needs to move rearward. It means longer good, passenger cabin is further back. Like I said, nothing is impossible, but at what cost vs gain.

My trailblazer ss is the same way. You offset the electric motor if you need to, or you redesign the oil pan, etc.

But yeah, way easier to stuff it inline with the transmission, keep all your regular AWD hardware, and sacrifice a couple hundred pounds at the altar of electricity.

Editing to note, I don't think the Volvo way is better. The Volvo is FWD without the electric motors, and isn't exactlyy great to drive (or reliable). My point was more that you could shave off some weight by removing the AWD system, and having each propulsion system have its own axle. You could also shave weight by having virtually no battery and just being a regular old hybrid, lol.

[dwwStL]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

That's the thing, how many people really care about their midsize SUV daily driver accelerating or handling any better than the 50e does right now?

These things just aren't 'enthusiast' vehicles and I'd actually prefer they not go overboard to try to make them into one.

This. It’s a mid sized SUV with fantastic power and performance. I love it. It’s a great highway ride. It doesn’t need more power.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by dwwStL

This. It’s a mid sized SUV with fantastic power and performance. I love it. It’s a great highway ride. It doesn’t need more power.

I totally agree as well. For car like x5, family people hauler kind of car,, I don’t know many will think 50e isn’t fast enough. Heck, 45e and 40i are plenty fast. If you buy x5 for drag racing, I would say it is entirely a wrong car to begin with. If you take a x5 to a track, I would say hp is the least concerning part. It is one thing to buy a high hp car, but I found it hard to believe anything b58 isn’t fast enough. Maybe enlighten me with your usage.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I totally agree as well. For car like x5, family people hauler kind of car,, I don’t know many will think 50e isn’t fast enough. Heck, 45e and 40i are plenty fast. If you buy x5 for drag racing, I would say it is entirely a wrong car to begin with. If you take a x5 to a track, I would say hp is the least concerning part. It is one thing to buy a high hp car, but I found it hard to believe anything b58 isn’t fast enough. Maybe enlighten me with your usage.

There's the rub. I don't think the crossover of people who want a PHEV and also want it to be super fast is large. I think the 45e is probably more than fast enough for most buyers. Frankly, I think if they made a non turbo version of the B58, that'd probably be fast enough for most PHEV buyers.

On the flip side, if you want it to go fast, you're probably going to want the better handling packages and such too. You're probably also going to want some driving drama and an experience over just numbers.

As far as the "why would you want a fast SUV" question... It's simple really. I need the space of a SUV for my daily driver and family hauling stuff. I also don't want to be bored daily, and I can't drive my seater sports cars every day to pick up the kids at daycare. A better question is why with 2 small kids and no time to enjoy them, I even bother having 2 seater cars still that just sit in the garage, lol.

[eluded]

agreed, but 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and the quarter is 12.5 is not exactly fast but it keeps others at bay while the wife is driving.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I don't think the crossover of people who want a PHEV and also want it to be super fast is large.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

There's the rub. I don't think the crossover of people who want a PHEV and also want it to be super fast is large. I think the 45e is probably more than fast enough for most buyers. Frankly, I think if they made a non turbo version of the B58, that'd probably be fast enough for most PHEV buyers.

On the flip side, if you want it to go fast, you're probably going to want the better handling packages and such too. You're probably also going to want some driving drama and an experience over just numbers.

As far as the "why would you want a fast SUV" question... It's simple really. I need the space of a SUV for my daily driver and family hauling stuff. I also don't want to be bored daily, and I can't drive my seater sports cars every day to pick up the kids at daycare. A better question is why with 2 small kids and no time to enjoy them, I even bother having 2 seater cars still that just sit in the garage, lol.

Sure I entirely respect the preference for a fast high HP car. After all, it isn’t about need at this level, it is about want.

My question really is, so you (not you, in general “you”) use the 483hp, experience the 0-60 in 3.x, of the 50e, then still feel the need you need to be faster? Or you simple just want a faster/higher spec car, or a V8? Perfect fine with the later, I have a 400hp v8 myself too. Thr former, I highly doubt anyone. Because my personal experience is even with 250hp, 0-60 in 5.x car, I don’t have a chance to use all of it capability on public road. If situation where I can, this car is about as much fun as I can handle. Maybe I can go to a 300hp car, but I sure fears for my life beyond that.

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Isn’t this very trivial number, not hard to archive? Even 45e in sport mode with depleted usable, I can get there easily.

Trivial probably. Yeah, I could calculate it using the pump method vice looking at the trip meter. I guess I’m just curious to see if they see the same the same MPG as I do.

[RichardE]

There is another need for power and that is for overtaking. I don't know what it is like in the states but here in rural Australia we do not have a lot of multi-lane roads and for some reason, a lot of drivers do not like being overtaken so they tend to speed up when you go to overtake.
I had a Volvo XC60 with Polestar tuning as a daily drive and that took just took too long to go from cruise at 90km/h* (55mph) to overtaking speed. The 45e is a lot better with the instant push from the electric and more torque from the 6. That 90km/h to 130km/h (55mph to 80mph) figure is the most important to me, as the quicker I can overtake the safer it is.
- For those not familiar with Australia-
* Max legal speed is 110 km/h (68mph) - except in a few specific places in Northern Territory. Most rural roads are 100km/h (62mph), go more than 5 km/h over and it is a hefty fine. More and more people like to potter along at 80-90km/h (even slower for wide sweeping bends) except where you can overtake, where they speed up. If you do overtake them they will flash their lights and beep their horns!
P.S. where there are dual lane freeways, a lot of drivers like to sit in the right hand lane (we drive on the left over here) to prevent you from going past. I think to go past someone it must be an insult and in someway offensive...

[jad03060]

In many places, it's illegal to sit in the passing lane while not passing, but is not enforced everywhere. Florida just passed a new law specifically making passing lane loitering a fineable offense, and don't try passing on the 'slow' lane now.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Sure I entirely respect the preference for a fast high HP car. After all, it isn’t about need at this level, it is about want.

My question really is, so you (not you, in general “you”) use the 483hp, experience the 0-60 in 3.x, of the 50e, then still feel the need you need to be faster? Or you simple just want a faster/higher spec car, or a V8? Perfect fine with the later, I have a 400hp v8 myself too. Thr former, I highly doubt anyone. Because my personal experience is even with 250hp, 0-60 in 5.x car, I don’t have a chance to use all of it capability on public road. If situation where I can, this car is about as much fun as I can handle. Maybe I can go to a 300hp car, but I sure fears for my life beyond that.

I'm a big fan of V8s for sure. I would buy a V8 over a comparable turbo 6 or PHEV because, they sound better and I get more enjoyment out of them. My previous vehicle was a ~460hp V8 sport SUV, and I wanted basically that again just newer and safer. If Hellcat Jeeps and Durangos didn't cost more than the M50i used, I'd have bought one of those, lol.

As far as where you can really use the power, I will say I find myself able to use the M50i power more than my last vehicle (Trailblazer SS). It's not that hard to find space to romp on it a little, little bit of empty road after a light, an on ramp, etc. Obviously I'm not out there topping the car out every day, but it's pretty easy to get to use all the power in short bursts.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by jad03060

In many places, it's illegal to sit in the passing lane while not passing, but is not enforced everywhere. Florida just passed a new law specifically making passing lane loitering a fineable offense, and don't try passing on the 'slow' lane now.

Technically you've never been supposed to pass on the right here in FL... But nobody cares about it at all.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Technically you've never been supposed to pass on the right here in FL... But nobody cares about it at all.

Passing on the right is legal in Florida under various circumstances, one being a multi-lane highway.