[thereef510]

Not everyone wants customization. I really like BMWs elegant and simple digital cluster. I find both the MBUX and Audi versions to be too over the top and CGIish. There hasn't been a time, so far, that I've wished for more information in the instrument cluster. Everything that's not there is on the main idrive sceeen. I don't want a million different custom screens, those are all just more distractions that's keeping me from paying attention to the road. I also don't mind the reverse tach but I can see how that would irk some people

[Frenetic]

To each their own, but saying BMW offers customization is a major stretch of the term.

A Ford Focus with its analog gauges and center digital screen offers pretty much the same level of customization BMW offers.

[Arrow29]

Originally Posted by ericthc

I've also been contemplating the very same question - I currently have the Cayenne S Coupe (had a Cayenne S Wagon before) - I think it's time to try a different brand.

In Australia, we still haven't got the petrol SQ8 yet so I cannot compare side by side. Took the M50i for a short test drive and I liked it. The tech toys also ticks the boxes for me.

I did try the RSQ8 but for some reason the drive didn't impress me. Maybe I didn't set it up right as video reviews are very positive.

At this stage, looks like I'm going for the 50i.

Recently put an order in for a X5 M50i in Aus. We looked at the SQ8 but as you said here it's a diesel v8 unlike elsewhere, so that ruled it out for me. In my opinion the M50i is relatively good value compared to the competition in our market. Looking forward to taking delivery!

[Luminor513]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

To each their own, but saying BMW offers customization is a major stretch of the term.

A Ford Focus with its analog gauges and center digital screen offers pretty much the same level of customization BMW offers.

With a very inexpensive coding tool, you can customize the BMW displays to your hearts content. As well as many other vehicle features. From my own experience, I've had several Audi's in the past (2014 Prestige S6, 2014 Prem Plus A6, and 2017 Prem Plus A6) and my wife's sister currently has a 2020 Prestige Q7. Audi's are great cars, but in terms of leasing, there is no comparison. BMW wins by a long shot, always several hundred less per month, unless you are getting the stripped Premium A4/A6 ad car that they advertise online. SQ8 leases cost as much as an X5M, so unless you absolutely have to have the Audi, it doesn't make sense for value proposition. Also as a side note regarding seat comfort, I would hands down say BMW wins with the luxury seating package and merino leather option. The top line valcona leather used in prestige Audi's doesn't compare to Merino, and the prestige seats don't feel anywhere near as comfortable as the luxury seats in the G05. Just my opinion of course, and this is coming from someone who has had both Audi's and BMW's.

[Tibua]

I am a true connoisseur of BMW cars, but Audi is a very worthy competitor. With all my love for BMW, I want to say that recently new models have many flaws, but Audi, on the contrary, has focused on quality. In general, the chevrolet electric car has proven itself well now, however, as far as I remember, the German car industry has also switched to the production of exclusively electric cars.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Tibua

I am a true connoisseur of BMW cars, but Audi is a very worthy competitor. With all my love for BMW, I want to say that recently new models have many flaws, but Audi, on the contrary, has focused on quality.

That is a rather sweeping indictment of BMW. Can't say that I have heard or read anything from a reputable source that would back up your statement. If anything I hear the exact opposite.
Jeeeez, if BMW is bad how would Jaguar, Land Rover, and MB be described.

[Tibua]

I'm not saying that BMW is bad, it's just that the latest models are no longer produced as high quality as before. A friend of mine has a 2000 BMW X5 and doesn't go to service as often as I do with my 2018 X6. Every month I have some kind of malfunction.

[-Vanguard-]

Originally Posted by Tibua

I'm not saying that BMW is bad, it's just that the latest models are no longer produced as high quality as before. A friend of mine has a 2000 BMW X5 and doesn't go to service as often as I do with my 2018 X6. Every month I have some kind of malfunction.

My GF has a 2016 X6 and never had an issue with it outside of her steering wheel and trunk motors needing to be replaced.

Engine has been rock solid. No leaks or oil consumption in the 5 years she had the car.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Tibua

I'm not saying that BMW is bad, it's just that the latest models are no longer produced as high quality as before. A friend of mine has a 2000 BMW X5 and doesn't go to service as often as I do with my 2018 X6. Every month I have some kind of malfunction.

Oh, so BMW's newer models are "no longer produced with high quality" because yours needs service. Gotcha. That is a very scientific determination with a sample size of one. Ridiculous.
I took delivery of my X5 a tad shy of a year ago and have had zero problems. Sample size of my study is the same as yours.

Honestly, a first post on a BMW forum bashing their quality is trollish.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Tibua

I am a true connoisseur of BMW cars, but Audi is a very worthy competitor. With all my love for BMW, I want to say that recently new models have many flaws, but Audi, on the contrary, has focused on quality.

Audi IS a worthy competitor, But to say that Audi is of higher quality than BMW is not based on fact. I haven't seen anyone rank Audi higher than BMW for quality. Here is JD Power's ranking of quality...


Here is the overall brand quality rating by JD Power. Unfortunately, both BMW and Audi rank low, but BMW is above Audi. Audi is below Jaguar and just above Landrover.

[Twags]

For those who have a Porsche on their bucket list, as I did, I suggest that you consider the Macan—preferably the Turbo. I have owned lots of nice cars—two M3’s, an X3, Audi S4, S5 and Allroad. While the Macan isn’t an especially beautiful car compared to the S5 I had, its combination of performance, price, and practicality is hard to beat IMO. Head and shoulders above the X3 it replaced.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Twags

For those who have a Porsche on their bucket list, as I did, I suggest that you consider the Macan—preferably the Turbo. I have owned lots of nice cars—two M3’s, an X3, Audi S4, S5 and Allroad. While the Macan isn’t an especially beautiful car compared to the S5 I had, its combination of performance, price, and practicality is hard to beat IMO. Head and shoulders above the X3 it replaced.

Former '19 Cayenne owner here who drove the Cayenne after the Macan. Never even thought about the Macan again.

[taek]

BMW jumped well ahead of many brands in the 2021 Dependability study. Definitely trending in a good direction.

[Frenetic]

[BMWBear]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Audi IS a worthy competitor, But to say that Audi is of higher quality than BMW is not based on fact. I haven't seen anyone rank Audi higher than BMW for quality. Here is JD Power's ranking of quality...


Here is the overall brand quality rating by JD Power. Unfortunately, both BMW and Audi rank low, but BMW is above Audi. Audi is below Jaguar and just above Landrover.

Opinions are like you know what …everyone has one.
IMO Audi is clearly above any that Tata makes and very close to BMW.
One could argue Audi interior material quality is actually superior to BMW.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by taek

BMW jumped well ahead of many brands in the 2021 Dependability study. Definitely trending in a good direction.

Does JD Power give further context around the numbers? It looks like the entire industry as a whole improved significantly 2021 vs. 2020. I'd like to understand what's driving that.

Putting it into perspective, as an example, looking at 2021 alone you'd conclude that Honda is complete shit reliability wise. But when you compare it to 2020 they've actually improved significantly... it just so happens ALL brands improved and so their ranking within the group dropped. So I'd be curious to understand what's driving those improvements. (i.e. did people drive less due to less commuting during covid and as a result reported fewer issues, did cars ACTUALLY improve, etc etc)

EDIT: Just realized the 2 graphs are different - one's initial quality and one's dependability. NEVERMIND

[speedyman]

Read the fine print under any of these charts, graphs, whatever, and see that they release themselves from any accuracy or statistical significance. This stuff is a bunch of BS. "Initial quality", what the hell is that?
One brand is in first place and a year later they are way down the list in 17th along with many other brands showing wild changes in their so called "rankings".
This stuff always reminds me of the knuckle heads who believe everything they hear on the news.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by Twags

For those who have a Porsche on their bucket list, as I did, I suggest that you consider the Macan—preferably the Turbo.

Which is smaller than the X5 and in a segment one rung below the X5 and competitors. The Turbo variant is more in line with the X3M but I agree when cross-shopping the X3 or X3M the Macan Turbo wins in every possible way but where the X3M tops out in terms of MSRP the Macan Turbo is only starting... so while they're in the same segment they're nowhere near the same in pricing.

Originally Posted by BYEIL

One could argue Audi interior material quality is actually superior to BMW.

Interior fit, finish and material is better along with the tech. Better graphics, faster processing but not as intuitive as BMW. X6M is better than the SQ8 in driving characteristics, engagement, handling, etc. (IMO)

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Read the fine print under any of these charts, graphs, whatever, and see that they release themselves from any accuracy or statistical significance. This stuff is a bunch of BS. "Initial quality", what the hell is that?
One brand is in first place and a year later they are way down the list in 17th along with many other brands showing wild changes in their so called "rankings".
This stuff always reminds me of the knuckle heads who believe everything they hear on the news.

That's true... but I guess you look for trends year over year. It's never good to look at 1 or 2 years in a vacuum - especially since it seems JD Power doesn't seem to massage their data for outliers or provide much context behind what may be driving some of the changes. Sounds like they could use some data scientists on their team....

Looking through the dependability studies (I agree I'm not sure what "initial quality" means... but at least vehicle dependability offers some merit) from 2015 to 2021, you can see a few trends:

- Land Rover consistently ranks at the bottom
- Lexus and Porsche consistently rank at or near the top
- Honda has been steadily declining in reliability, but not quite as significantly as their decline in rankings (which suggests other brands are getting more reliable while Honda is not)
- BMW has consistently been above industry average, but never near the top

Ultimately I'm just speculating - but I wish there was a way to capture more nuanced data. Things like, categorizing the types/magnitude of problems - most common issues. For example, Brand A might be more reliable than Brand B based on JD Power's qualifications of # of issues per 100 vehicles. However looking deeper into the types of problems, Brand A experiences catastrophic powertrain failure while Brand B's more frequent issues happen to be things like the sunroof rattling or not working.

I know Consumer Reports provides some of that, but there should be a way to use the types of problems being experienced to weight the rankings as opposed to a straight count of problems.

[speedyman]

I have owned 10 Corvettes and 9 Cadillacs in my life and never had a single problem with any of those vehicles. BMWs have been very good to me while Porsche has been a total PIA. Our Asian brand vehicles just plain sucked. some people have good luck with them we did not, never again.
I will go with personal experience over any of these authoritative "rankings".

[Mynoles1]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Former '19 Cayenne owner here who drove the Cayenne after the Macan. Never even thought about the Macan again.

Former 2018 Macan owner here. After the Macan, never thought about Porsche again......Bought new, couldn't get out of it fast enough (6 months, no financial bath).

Agree with many on Audi comfort and quality. I had a new one a few years ago and it was awfully good looking and comfortable, with a lot of interior class. Unfortunately, the B&O system was crap and more importantly, the engine/car simply had no "soul." Nothing wrong, necessarily, just had no soul.

All the being said, I really did like the Audi Q8 (SQ8). That is the only one I ever considered, but financially it didn't work and at the end of the day was still an Audi - so went with my heart and bought an X5. No regrets whatsoever, love it.

[iconoclast]

What do you mean by "still an Audi"?