[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Thanks, so that’s useful info. They came back with a revised sheet saying they messed up some calculation. Does this look right?

No, the payment amount still seems too high and the due at signing does not add up. All they did was apply the rebate as a cap cost reduction which is something we had already done. The amount of the lease did not change. They must be including some fees or something that they are not listing.

Tell them they also need to give the detail on what is included in the DAS amount. They now have 9,648.15. Seven MSD payments would be 8,050 (using their seemingly incorrect payment amount 1,150 x 7) add in the first month's payment of 1,119.40 that would be 9,169.40. Allowing $125 for the tax on the incentive they are still having you pay an extra 354.75 that is not accounted for.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Thanks, so that’s useful info. They came back with a revised sheet saying they messed up some calculation. Does this look right?

In case it helps, here is how to calculate the lease cost by hand. It may be easier to see exactly what goes into the monthly payment and will force them to give you all of the details of what they are doing.

MSRP: 76,170
Residual (MSRP x RV): 76,170 x .57 = 43,416.90
Gross Cap Cost (selling price plus fees being rolled into lease): 72,920 + 1,007 + 150 + 925 = 75,002
Adj Cap Cost (gross cap cost - down payment - rebates): 75,002 - 1,250 = 73,752
Monthly depreciation ((adj cap cost - residual)/36): (73,752 - 43,416.90)/36 = 842.64
Monthly rent ((adj cap cost + residual) x MF): (73,752 + 43,416.90) x .00112) = 131.23
Monthly tax ((depr + rent) * tax rate): (842.64 + 131.23) x .1 = 97.39
Monthly payment: 842.64 + 131.23 + 97.39 = 1,071.26

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

In case it helps, here is how to calculate the lease cost by hand. It may be easier to see exactly what goes into the monthly payment and will force them to give you all of the details of what they are doing.

MSRP: 76,170
Residual (MSRP x RV): 76,170 x .57 = 43,416.90
Gross Cap Cost (selling price plus fees being rolled into lease): 72,920 + 1,007 + 150 + 925 = 75,002
Adj Cap Cost (gross cap cost - down payment - rebates): 75,002 - 1,250 = 73,752
Monthly depreciation ((adj cap cost - residual)/36): (73,752 - 43,416.90)/36 = 842.64
Monthly rent ((adj cap cost + residual) x MF): (73,752 + 43,416.90) x .00112) = 131.23
Monthly tax ((depr + rent) * tax rate): (842.64 + 131.23) x .1 = 97.39
Monthly payment: 842.64 + 131.23 + 97.39 = 1,071.26

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation, really appreciate the time!

Edit: I went and checked the email from the dealer - they’re using 0.00147 *after* MSDs. That would bring it closer to their calculation.

[bluzbra]

Any update on what the base MF is for March? Radio silence on Edmunds.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation, really appreciate the time!

Edit: I went and checked the email from the dealer - they’re using 0.00147 *after* MSDs. That would bring it closer to their calculation.

Anytime, I enjoy working with that stuff. They must have really marked up the MF if they are using .00147 after the MSDs. Once March’s number is out then you can see what movement you can get from them in the MF.

[bluzbra]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Anytime, I enjoy working with that stuff. They must have really marked up the MF if they are using .00147 after the MSDs. Once March’s number is out then you can see what movement you can get from them in the MF.

They likely marked up from 0.00142 to 0.00182 (the max markup of 0.00040) and then deducted 0.00035 (7 MSDs) to get back down to 0.00147. To me this is the same as a store that regularly sells an item for $100 marking it up to $120 and then offering a 15% "discount" - which still ends up being more than the $100 they regularly sold the item for. It's an unnecessary and artificial markup that gets people if they don't know any better.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by bluzbra

They likely marked up from 0.00142 to 0.00182 (the max markup of 0.00040) and then deducted 0.00035 (7 MSDs) to get back down to 0.00147. To me this is the same as a store that regularly sells an item for $100 marking it up to $120 and then offering a 15% "discount" - which still ends up being more than the $100 they regularly sold the item for. It's an unnecessary and artificial markup that gets people if they don't know any better.

True, they like to make a little extra where they can get away with it. My CA told me when his sales manager was putting together my deal he marked up the MF and my CA told him not to bother since I already told him what the base MF was and that would be what I was getting. He told me it was standard practice for them to mark up the MF and only give base when asked for.!

[bluzbra]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

True, they like to make a little extra where they can get away with it. My CA told me when his sales manager was putting together my deal he marked up the MF and my CA told him not to bother since I already told him what the base MF was and that would be what I was getting. He told me it was standard practice for them to mark up the MF and only give base when asked for.!

I'm pretty sure dealers like to keep that in their back pocket as a last resort to make deals happen with customers that don't know anything about it. They probably give all their quotes with the MF inflated to the max, and then drop it slowly to bring the monthly payment down as they're going back and forth during negotiations. The monthly payment difference between 0.00142 and 0.00182 on a $70k X5 is like $45-50/month, so it's probably a very effective tactic.

[Jason]

Updated with March program rates.

[bluzbra]

Originally Posted by Jason

Updated with March program rates.

Do you by any chance know what the base MF is? Thanks, Jason!

[floridaman100]

Originally Posted by floridaman100

I have learned that I am eligible for the other $2000 rebate from BMW and I asked the dealer about it. They said they are all in and are keeping the rebate. In other words they inflated the $7920 discount to include the rebate but when you take this out the discount is actually 8%. They will not budge and got pretty rude about it. Thinking about walking from this deal. I keep reading that other members are getting up to 12% off plus rebates. What do you guys think?

My X5 arrived today however I think I am going to get the same build from a different dealer. Current deal is 68862 out the door. I can save an additional $1400 on the out the door price. The current dealer told me a couple of weeks ago they absolutely would not go any lower and were so rude about it. I have left no deposit so I can walk. I could go into dealer and show them the deal that is being offered by other dealer but if they say no then no chance that other dealer would be able to obtain that X5 and I would have to order it again and that is fine with me. The other option is I could just tell the current dealer that something came up and I can't get the car. Maybe they would come back with a better offer or maybe not. The competing dealer is giving me a 12.2% discount plus $2K for USAA and their dealer fees are less. Can't decide what to do.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by floridaman100

My X5 arrived today however I think I am going to get the same build from a different dealer. I can save an additional $1400 on the out the door price. The current dealer told me a couple of weeks ago they absolutely would not go any lower and were so rude about it. I have left no deposit so I can walk. I could go into dealer and show them the deal that is being offered by other dealer but if they say no then no chance that other dealer would be able to obtain that X5 and I would have to order it again and that is fine with me. The other option is I could just tell the current dealer that something came up and I can't get the car. Maybe they would come back with a better offer or maybe not. The competing dealer is giving me a 12.2% discount plus $2K for USAA and their dealer fees are less. Can't decide what to do.

I say stick to the original deal you made. I know going back on my word isn't worth $1,400 and it probably is the same for you. If I remember correctly, the dealer was rude when you tried to get the deal changed after it was made, you would have been pissed, and rightly so, if they changed it after you agreed.

[paul45]

Originally Posted by floridaman100

My X5 arrived today however I think I am going to get the same build from a different dealer. Current deal is 68862 out the door. I can save an additional $1400 on the out the door price. The current dealer told me a couple of weeks ago they absolutely would not go any lower and were so rude about it. I have left no deposit so I can walk. I could go into dealer and show them the deal that is being offered by other dealer but if they say no then no chance that other dealer would be able to obtain that X5 and I would have to order it again and that is fine with me. The other option is I could just tell the current dealer that something came up and I can't get the car. Maybe they would come back with a better offer or maybe not. The competing dealer is giving me a 12.2% discount plus $2K for USAA and their dealer fees are less. Can't decide what to do.

I would strongly caution you against putting your name, address and phone number on an open forum.

Please delete your personal information before posting any documents, to prevent someone from misusing the same.

The forum participants are only interested in seeing the details of the deal, so please safeguard your personal information.

[floridaman100]

Originally Posted by paul45

I would strongly caution you against putting your name, address and phone number on an open forum.

Please delete your personal information before posting any documents, to prevent someone from misusing the same.

The forum participants are only interested in seeing the details of the deal, so please safeguard your personal information.

Thanks and I wasn't thinking. Long day.

[floridaman100]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I say stick to the original deal you made. I know going back on my word isn't worth $1,400 and it probably is the same for you. If I remember correctly, the dealer was rude when you tried to get the deal changed after it was made, you would have been pissed, and rightly so, if they changed it after you agreed.

They actually told me 2 weeks ago that I didn't have to buy the car and they would sell it to someone else. Trust me, the way I was treated was far beyond rude and the entire experience at this dealer has been horrible at best. I will not mention names but the dealer has lost a lot of deals for these very reasons I have stated. They also admitted that they were keeping the $2K rebate from BMW and not passing it to me.

[bforbrian]

Looks unchanged from Feb, unless the MF changed.

[TurtleBoy]

MF remains at .00142 for March.

[Sp82]

Need some help please guys.... This is what I'm getting from a dealer, and want to know if this is fair--hopefully I'm giving you the information you need to let me know:

$68245 MSRP
$7k off, plus $1250 loyalty credit. $8250 total off.

.00162 MF.

3 year 10k miles a year. $855 down, $855 a month incl/ tax.

x5 40i.

Do I pull the trigger?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Sp82

Need some help please guys.... This is what I'm getting from a dealer, and want to know if this is fair--hopefully I'm giving you the information you need to let me know:

$68245 MSRP
$7k off, plus $1250 loyalty credit. $8250 total off.

.00162 MF.

3 year 10k miles a year. $855 down, $855 a month incl/ tax.

x5 40i.

Do I pull the trigger?

You are getting a good discount so as long as they aren't charging unusually high/extra fees you are good there. The base mf is .00142 so I would try and get them down to that. It is only a few bucks a month so probably won't matter much in the scheme of things but they may not want to lose a sale over that small amount either.

[bluzbra]

Originally Posted by Sp82

Need some help please guys.... This is what I'm getting from a dealer, and want to know if this is fair--hopefully I'm giving you the information you need to let me know:

$68245 MSRP
$7k off, plus $1250 loyalty credit. $8250 total off.

.00162 MF.

3 year 10k miles a year. $855 down, $855 a month incl/ tax.

x5 40i.

Do I pull the trigger?

You're getting 10.25% off MSRP before incentives, so I think you've done well. I would just push them to give you the base MF of 0.00142, as TurtleBoy said. In your scenario, it will shave off about $20/month, so I think it's worth trying. Using the lease calculator by the way, I got exactly $855/month so doesn't look like they're charging you any extraordinary fees.

[Sp82]

Originally Posted by bluzbra

You're getting 10.25% off MSRP before incentives, so I think you've done well. I would just push them to give you the base MF of 0.00142, as TurtleBoy said. In your scenario, it will shave off about $20/month, so I think it's worth trying. Using the lease calculator by the way, I got exactly $855/month so doesn't look like they're charging you any extraordinary fees.

I didnt go back with any specifics, just asked to do better and they came back at $844. with $844 down....

Good?

[bluzbra]

Originally Posted by Sp82

I didnt go back with any specifics, just asked to do better and they came back at $844. with $844 down....

Good?

Sounds like they probably brought the MF down to 0.00152. They're "meeting you in the middle" essentially. If you're comfortable with the payment, go for it!