[bigwaveauto]

Originally Posted by Bimmervegas

While I appreciate your feedback, I reserve the right to change my mind on anything I buy or lease according to the contract. I said I'm sure some people would act as if this were a 1st world problem. The only thing I personally did wrongly was change my mind..and like I said I've done this literally a dozen times before and now bmw has changed the rules.

I am in line to lease an i7 and I am part of the stop sale. Word on the street is parts are starting to show up next week. Who knows how true that is but they are going to be VERY motivated to make up for the substantial losses by this stop sale/recall.

Given this, I would think you should be able to get your recall done by mid/late Sept. Can you drive the X5 for one more month and then swapalease/transfer? Like others said it sucks your hands are kind of tied for the moment but car works, is brand new, and it isn't like they changed the transfer rules forever...

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by dlucas589

I am in line to lease an i7 and I am part of the stop sale. Word on the street is parts are starting to show up next week. Who knows how true that is but they are going to be VERY motivated to make up for the substantial losses by this stop sale/recall.

Given this, I would think you should be able to get your recall done by mid/late Sept. Can you drive the X5 for one more month and then swapalease/transfer? Like others said it sucks your hands are kind of tied for the moment but car works, is brand new, and it isn't like they changed the transfer rules forever...

Don't confuse the Stop Sale with the recall. Once the remedy for the stop sale is announced, the parts that are going to be showing up will be used for the Stop Sale vehicles. With around 350k vehicles affected by the recall it likely will be well over a year before all of the recalled vehicles are handled.

[Bimmervegas]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Don't confuse the Stop Sale with the recall. Once the remedy for the stop sale is announced, the parts that are going to be showing up will be used for the Stop Sale vehicles. With around 350k vehicles affected by the recall it likely will be well over a year before all of the recalled vehicles are handled.

Exactly! My mom has an MDX advance with engine recall due to rod bearing failure. First she has to take it in for them to drop the oil pan and take measurements. Then, if it isn't according to specs they have to order the parts and wait in line. This recall was announced like a year ago and still no parts.
I will be literally the LAST in the pecking order to get parts as the vehicles affected by stop sale on lots will get priority as well as production vehicles sitting at ports or factory. They already got my money so they will make me last. What grinds my arse the most is they knew in February and leased me the car in June knowing this in at least February. Also being in NV I can't specifically find the laws on whether a vehicle can be sold with an open recall by a dealer. Dealers aren't stupid..so what dealer am I gonna find or carmax etc to trade it into? Likely zero. So now value is compromised and I basically am stuck with a vehicle due to no fault of my own and basically this reeks of fraud. And the minute I lawyer up then BMW is gonna shut down talks with me then this just gets more and more expensive. I made a mistake with this vehicle...admittedly...and I just wanna cut my losses but there is really no way to sell this vehicle. Again..im not taking 80k of my liquid cash to further gamble and then get some offer of 50k or less to get rid of it. I know the house always wins, but this is exceptionally unfair. Plus, this is deemed a safety issue so...there's that. Plus I have so many prior leases and loans with BMW I hope this leverage works in my favor. One thing is for sure, BMW doesn't play ball and I am done with them and they'll lose a longtime customer. Will they care? Likely not. But a person tells a friend 10x of a negative experience vs 1 time of a positive statistically. This is bigger than a 1st world problem.

[krypttic]

Originally Posted by Bimmervegas

Exactly! My mom has an MDX advance with engine recall due to rod bearing failure. First she has to take it in for them to drop the oil pan and take measurements. Then, if it isn't according to specs they have to order the parts and wait in line. This recall was announced like a year ago and still no parts.
I will be literally the LAST in the pecking order to get parts as the vehicles affected by stop sale on lots will get priority as well as production vehicles sitting at ports or factory. They already got my money so they will make me last. What grinds my arse the most is they knew in February and leased me the car in June knowing this in at least February. Also being in NV I can't specifically find the laws on whether a vehicle can be sold with an open recall by a dealer. Dealers aren't stupid..so what dealer am I gonna find or carmax etc to trade it into? Likely zero. So now value is compromised and I basically am stuck with a vehicle due to no fault of my own and basically this reeks of fraud. And the minute I lawyer up then BMW is gonna shut down talks with me then this just gets more and more expensive. I made a mistake with this vehicle...admittedly...and I just wanna cut my losses but there is really no way to sell this vehicle. Again..im not taking 80k of my liquid cash to further gamble and then get some offer of 50k or less to get rid of it. I know the house always wins, but this is exceptionally unfair. Plus, this is deemed a safety issue so...there's that. Plus I have so many prior leases and loans with BMW I hope this leverage works in my favor. One thing is for sure, BMW doesn't play ball and I am done with them and they'll lose a longtime customer. Will they care? Likely not. But a person tells a friend 10x of a negative experience vs 1 time of a positive statistically. This is bigger than a 1st world problem.

Yeah, I can't say I disagree. They're prioritizing cars that aren't even on the road yet instead of those already being driven. I'm actually surprised the NHSTA doesn't require them to fix existing vehicles first or at least allocate a large portion of the updated parts to this.

[TurtleBoy]

It could be that since it was a voluntary recall and there have been no accidents due to it that they have the ability to prioritize the parts delivery. The first month or so they were able to remedy a bit over 10k vehicles. I would imagine given how the recall has grown we will see that pace pick up once the stop sale is taken care of.

[XtoX_Phill]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

It could be that since it was a voluntary recall and there have been no accidents due to it that they have the ability to prioritize the parts delivery. The first month or so they were able to remedy a bit over 10k vehicles. I would imagine given how the recall has grown we will see that pace pick up once the stop sale is taken care of.

Ok so with all that said if i have a week 32 X7 on the lot. Trying to figure out if its worth waiting. Once they announce the remedy can they sell us the cars....or do they have to fix it first. My dealership sucks. So if i have to wait for them to put the part in id rather move on.

I say this because my car was on the lot on Aug 5th. They took days to do the pre-delivery because they couldn't get the nav or carplay to work.By the time they did. the stop sale happened

[blackknight28]

Any stop sale updates!? Ugh I want my X5. It’s been almost 3 weeks of it delivered and sitting .

[Bt31st]

The dealer just told me my X5 has not arrived yet and that if it had completed production one day later, it would not have been affected by the recall. But it has been completed and is still sitting at the factory apparently waiting on the part

[Galex999]

Well, my car (MY25 Week 32) has finally arrived at the dealer in the SF Bay Area. Not sure how long the car needs to just sit there until the dreaded IB recall issue gets resolved.

Is it even possible to sign some kind of waiver for me to pick up the car and gets it fixed later once the replacement part arrives? I'm sure many current X5s are also affected by this same recall, but they are still allowed to drive around, right?

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Galex999

Well, my car (MY25 Week 32) has finally arrived at the dealer in the SF Bay Area. Not sure how long the car needs to just sit there until the dreaded IB recall issue gets resolved.

Is it even possible to sign some kind of waiver for me to pick up the car and gets it fixed later once the replacement part arrives? I'm sure many current X5s are also affected by this same recall, but they are still allowed to drive around, right?

not in the US. federal law prohibits the sale of a new motor vehicle with a recall...
the SIB has an attachment that spells it out:

Please be reminded that it is a violation of federal law (The Safety Act) for you to sell,
lease or deliver any new motor vehicle covered by this notification until the recall repair
has been performed. This means that Centers may not legally deliver new motor
vehicles to consumers until they are fixed or use/sell replacement equipment/parts
subject to this recall. Note also that substantial civil penalties apply to violations of the
Safety Act.

does not apply to cars already delivered. I've been staring at a no remedy recall on my X7 since march

[Galex999]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

not in the US. federal law prohibits the sale of a new motor vehicle with a recall...
the SIB has an attachment that spells it out:

Please be reminded that it is a violation of federal law (The Safety Act) for you to sell,
lease or deliver any new motor vehicle covered by this notification until the recall repair
has been performed. This means that Centers may not legally deliver new motor
vehicles to consumers until they are fixed or use/sell replacement equipment/parts
subject to this recall. Note also that substantial civil penalties apply to violations of the
Safety Act.

does not apply to cars already delivered. I've been staring at a no remedy recall on my X7 since march

What I don't understand is that this IB issue/recall has been first issued Feb '24 (which mean BMW knew about this issue well before then) but BMW continued to make X5s using the same "defect" parts as of August '24!?

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Galex999

What I don't understand is that this IB issue/recall has been first issued Feb '24 (which mean BMW knew about this issue well before then) but BMW continued to make X5s using the same "defect" parts as of August '24!?

the mfr of the IB said the issue was resolved last october. bmw investigated when they kept getting warranty claims for the IB outside of the original SOP-> october 2023 and determined that the supplier had not fully rectified the issue and faulty parts had made it into production from october 2023 to now.

hence expanding the recall and stop sale.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Galex999

What I don't understand is that this IB issue/recall has been first issued Feb '24 (which mean BMW knew about this issue well before then) but BMW continued to make X5s using the same "defect" parts as of August '24!?

Not quite. For the initial recall the last vehicle built with a faulty part was in October. The current addition is for vehicles starting after the clean point.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by XtoX_Phill

Ok so with all that said if i have a week 32 X7 on the lot. Trying to figure out if its worth waiting. Once they announce the remedy can they sell us the cars....or do they have to fix it first. My dealership sucks. So if i have to wait for them to put the part in id rather move on.

I say this because my car was on the lot on Aug 5th. They took days to do the pre-delivery because they couldn't get the nav or carplay to work.By the time they did. the stop sale happened

Unknown at this point how long it will take. As me mentioned, they will have to remedy the recall prior to selling the vehicle.

[Bimmervegas]

Knowing what I know now I would cancel any BMW waiting on a lot when there is no ETA for a repair. I am anxiously awaiting a call from BMW CR as to what they plan to do to make me whole [I'm sure I will have time chase and hound them.] I personally only see one way..and that's a buyback less mileage fee. I mean...if there is a problem with a major safety defect and cannot provide when u can fix it, consumers should have more rights. I understand problems can and will happen, but to not even offer a timeline is unacceptable. BMW is the 600lb gorilla. You mean to tell me they can't lean on their supplier and have some sort of idea on when? And estimate at this point would be better than absolutely NOTHING. Anyone know how Toyota/lexus is handling the engine recall affecting over 1m vehicles?
There has got to be some better protection built in for the consumer. Same as diminished value on a wrecked vehicle, the stain on the value of the vehicle will exist until more is known. If we are looking at a year, tell us that. Their silence is telling me they know but don't want US to know as there will be a ton of cancelations. I also feel badly for the salespeople...how can they make a living not being able to sell 3/4 of their inventory? Yes we have all been conditioned to hate dealers and salespeople..sometimes for good reason, but they have families and bills like everyone else. How can it be safe to drive for current owners yet unsafe to drive for undelivered vehicles? While I understand the NHTSA laws, none of this makes common sense. Either the vehicle IS safe to drive and can be sold and repaired later or it's not! how can it be safe for me to drive my 25 but not one sitting there? And it seriously makes me the maddest they knew in February and leased to me anyhow...don't tell me they just found out in June 2024..that just is not believable .

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Bimmervegas

Knowing what I know now I would cancel any BMW waiting on a lot when there is no ETA for a repair. I am anxiously awaiting a call from BMW CR as to what they plan to do to make me whole [I'm sure I will have time chase and hound them.] I personally only see one way..and that's a buyback less mileage fee. I mean...if there is a problem with a major safety defect and cannot provide when u can fix it, consumers should have more rights. I understand problems can and will happen, but to not even offer a timeline is unacceptable. BMW is the 600lb gorilla. You mean to tell me they can't lean on their supplier and have some sort of idea on when? And estimate at this point would be better than absolutely NOTHING. Anyone know how Toyota/lexus is handling the engine recall affecting over 1m vehicles?
There has got to be some better protection built in for the consumer. Same as diminished value on a wrecked vehicle, the stain on the value of the vehicle will exist until more is known. If we are looking at a year, tell us that. Their silence is telling me they know but don't want US to know as there will be a ton of cancelations. I also feel badly for the salespeople...how can they make a living not being able to sell 3/4 of their inventory? Yes we have all been conditioned to hate dealers and salespeople..sometimes for good reason, but they have families and bills like everyone else. How can it be safe to drive for current owners yet unsafe to drive for undelivered vehicles? While I understand the NHTSA laws, none of this makes common sense. Either the vehicle IS safe to drive and can be sold and repaired later or it's not! how can it be safe for me to drive my 25 but not one sitting there? And it seriously makes me the maddest they knew in February and leased to me anyhow...don't tell me they just found out in June 2024..that just is not believable .

Laws often don't seem to make sense but they are what they are. The vehicles on stop sale are no less safe than the ones that are on recall, just so happens that federal law doesn't allow them to be sold.

As far as not giving an estimate, that seems to be the most prudent thing to do. Why give a date and then miss it. Without knowing what the remedy may be for the stop sale it would be hard to estimate how long things would take plus that is only one factor of many including dealer personnel, scheduling, supply chain, etc.

[dwwStL]

I assume dealers are not being charged floor plan payments on the cars covered by the stop sale.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by dwwStL

I assume dealers are not being charged floor plan payments on the cars covered by the stop sale.

I have not heard that they aren't but the do get paid for the vehicles on stop sale that they can't sell.

[Bimmervegas]

As far as not giving an estimate, that seems to be the most prudent thing to do. Why give a date and then miss it. Without knowing what the remedy may be for the stop sale it would be hard to estimate how long things would take plus that is only one factor of many including dealer personnel, scheduling, supply chain, etc.[/QUOTE]

I partially agree. But not giving ANY idea sounds worse to me than stating a "few weeks" vs a few months vs 1+ years. BMW's factory system is so advanced that they pretty much know immediately which suppliers can and wont deliver and then they simply remove an option from build and quickly update the BYO configurator. I am guessing the reason they do NOT want to release the date is either they don't have an idea [which I seriously doubt] or simply just don't want to drop the bomb that vehicles on the lot that have been ordered and delivered cant be sold for weeks or months. Salespeople would bail, lawsuits would fly [likely to anyhow], etc. What tells me they know is recent production weeks NOW have the fixed IB component due to multiple accounts and several dealers suggesting to reorder the vehicle to have it delivered rather than wait for the revised part - that says alot to me. I have been in power generation industry manufacturing for over 26 years. We have used ALL the excuses and strategies over the years for delayed shipment/delivery. This reeks of just not wanting to release the bad news [to me - but I could be wrong.]

[Bimmervegas]

Originally Posted by Bimmervegas

As far as not giving an estimate, that seems to be the most prudent thing to do. Why give a date and then miss it. Without knowing what the remedy may be for the stop sale it would be hard to estimate how long things would take plus that is only one factor of many including dealer personnel, scheduling, supply chain, etc.

I partially agree. But not giving ANY idea sounds worse to me than stating a "few weeks" vs a few months vs 1+ years. BMW's factory system is so advanced that they pretty much know immediately which suppliers can and wont deliver and then they simply remove an option from build and quickly update the BYO configurator. I am guessing the reason they do NOT want to release the date is either they don't have an idea [which I seriously doubt] or simply just don't want to drop the bomb that vehicles on the lot that have been ordered and delivered cant be sold for weeks or months. Salespeople would bail, lawsuits would fly [likely to anyhow], etc. What tells me they know is recent production weeks NOW have the fixed IB component due to multiple accounts and several dealers suggesting to reorder the vehicle to have it delivered rather than wait for the revised part - that says alot to me. I have been in power generation industry manufacturing for over 26 years. We have used ALL the excuses and strategies over the years for delayed shipment/delivery. This reeks of just not wanting to release the bad news [to me - but I could be wrong.]

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Bimmervegas

I partially agree. But not giving ANY idea sounds worse to me than stating a "few weeks" vs a few months vs 1+ years. BMW's factory system is so advanced that they pretty much know immediately which suppliers can and wont deliver and then they simply remove an option from build and quickly update the BYO configurator. I am guessing the reason they do NOT want to release the date is either they don't have an idea [which I seriously doubt] or simply just don't want to drop the bomb that vehicles on the lot that have been ordered and delivered cant be sold for weeks or months. Salespeople would bail, lawsuits would fly [likely to anyhow], etc. What tells me they know is recent production weeks NOW have the fixed IB component due to multiple accounts and several dealers suggesting to reorder the vehicle to have it delivered rather than wait for the revised part - that says alot to me. I have been in power generation industry manufacturing for over 26 years. We have used ALL the excuses and strategies over the years for delayed shipment/delivery. This reeks of just not wanting to release the bad news [to me - but I could be wrong.]

The factory has been producing vehicles with a good part but keep in mind that is only part of the solution for the stop sale. What seems to be holding things up is the software part of the solution. At this point they may not know when that will be available. Earlier in the year it seems that after almost a month of trying to handle the issue with the software they instead choose to implement the 170 mile requirement. That of course would not work for the stop sale so they need to have the software handle it. Just think of just the testing and certifying that is involved for software so critical to the system yet alone the development time.

[Bimmervegas]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

The factory has been producing vehicles with a good part but keep in mind that is only part of the solution for the stop sale. What seems to be holding things up is the software part of the solution. At this point they may not know when that will be available. Earlier in the year it seems that after almost a month of trying to handle the issue with the software they instead choose to implement the 170 mile requirement. That of course would not work for the stop sale so they need to have the software handle it. Just think of just the testing and certifying that is involved for software so critical to the system yet alone the development time.

I am well aware of software/hardware development as I was overseeing it for my corp for 20 years. It takes alot of moving parts between gerber files, multi-layer PCB layout, IC sourcing, prototype, testing, code, etc. But the new factory cars being built this moment are NOT being driven 170 miles so why cant that same module that doesn't require 170 miles of driving and the software and push both thru to the stop sale and current owned vehicles? This is likely more of a hardware than software issue from the sounds of it to be me. Obviously I am super frustrated and I am not the only one. I have never seen a manufacturer issue a recall WITHOUT a fix, but I have seen them issue with a fix but no timeline. The current recall states a fix is unknown. a fix cant be unknown yet they are producing at the factory level "fixed" vehicles that wont be subject to a stop sale. So it seems one hand is not talking to the other. Just like stating the vehicles are safe to drive but there has been at least 18 failures known, but they didn't results in accidents or injuries. Yet, how do they know the 19th incident+ won't result in that? The point I'm trying to make is the narrative doesnt seem to be consistent and I'm futher irked I just got my BMWFS statement emailed and they sure know how and when the bill is due, but they sure as h#ll dont know when to tell me when I can see my brand new 25 fixed so I can sell it or transfer the lease, etc.
AND, remove the BS 3rd party buyout restriction OR if you are not going to allow the transfer of my lease of a USED vehicle and let the new owner sign a waiver stating awareness. Do not throw your hands up in the air [BMW] and tell me nothing can be done - that's my point.