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      02-28-2021, 01:58 PM   #1
apdpsudx
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Thoughts on this offer - 71k for 2021 e45

Hi All

I have a price offer from 2 dealerships for 71k - in the New York City metro area
DealerShipA: 71,000
DealerShipB: 71,000
DealerShipC: 71,786
DealerShipD: 72,900
DealerShipE: 73,395

The car in question is has an MSRP of $76,900. Lease details I have are for a 10k/36month
55% residual
0.0086 MoneyFactor

Assuming I chose the 71k dealership, I calculate this out (using Edmonds.com lease calc equation):
MSRP $76,900.00
Agreed Price $71,000.00
Incentives $500
Cash up front $4,000.00
Trade in equity $6000.00
Residual Value 55%
Months 36
Money Factor 0.00086

Monthly Depreciation
Cap Cost $61,000 (agreed minus upfront 61000)
Residual $42,295 (msrp less 55% residual)
Deprecation $519.58 (cap cost 60500 minus residual 42295 / 35 month)

Monthly Finance Charge
Charge $88.83 (cap cost 61000 + residual 42295 * MF .00086)

Lease payment $608.42 (Monthly charge 88.83+Deprecation 519.58)

So, the discount is about 7.7%

A few questions
1. ~7.7% off MSRP on this car below good, or should I push for more? I've seen a lot of posts saying it should be up to 10%...
Leasehackr says
621 before tax, 676 with tax
2. is my lease calculation right?
3. 4k down is out of pocket, 6k for the trade in is my lease for my RX450h lease which only has 13k miles(residual at 34k, websites say its worth ~41k) - so assume 6k earnest value. is this too much down? (walk off the lot would sit around 12k I guess 4k+6k+1st month+upfront fees+taxes)

What are thoughts on this?

Car is:
X5 xDrive45e $65,400
M Sport $5,500
Carbon Black Metallic $550
Driving Assistance Professional Package $1,700
Luxury Seating Package $1,600
Parking Assistance Package $800
Extended Shadowline Trim $300
Heated Front Seats, Armrests & Steering Wheel $250
Rear manual side window shades $250
Trailer Hitch $550
Destination & Handling $995
Total Price (MSRP) $77,895
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      02-28-2021, 07:43 PM   #2
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The discounts have been coming down so 7.7% may be about as good as you can get. The region you are in generally has some of the highest discounts in the nation but that seems to be changing.

My recommendation it so put nothing down on the lease except for possibly paying the fees, upfront taxes, etc. While the chances of it happening are small, if the vehicle gets totalled you can lose that down payment or at least it could be very difficult to get it back.

Don't forget to add the spare tire option, for $150 it is a no brainer.

You don't have any fees listed, you will need to take those into consideration when calculating the payment/upfront money. There will also likely be taxes due on the $500 incentive. You also need to add that incentive into your calculations.

Using the numbers you have above and ignoring any fees, your pre-tax payment would be 594.09. Here is how I arrived at that doing it by formula and also the link to the Leasehackr calculator which gets the same amount:

Residual: 42,295 (76,900 * .55)
Adj Cap Cost: 60,500 (71,000 - 4,000 - 6,000 - 500)
Depreciation: 18,205 (60,500 - 42,295)
Base payment: 505.69 (18,205 / 36)
Interest: 88.40 ((60,500 + 42,295) * .00086)
Payment before taxes: 594.09

https://leasehackr.com/calculator?ma...w_demo_25=true

Edit: I just noticed you have the wrong MSRP listed in the beginning and that is what I used for my calculations. You need to include the $995 DH in the MSRP when you do the calculations.
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Last edited by TurtleBoy; 02-28-2021 at 07:50 PM..
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      02-28-2021, 07:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
The discounts have been coming down so 7.7% may be about as good as you can get. The region you are in generally has some of the highest discounts in the nation but that seems to be changing.

My recommendation it so put nothing down on the lease except for possibly paying the fees, upfront taxes, etc. While the chances of it happening are small, if the vehicle gets totalled you can lose that down payment or at least it could be very difficult to get it back.

Don't forget to add the spare tire option, for $150 it is a no brainer.

You don't have any fees listed, you will need to take those into consideration when calculating the payment/upfront money. There will also likely be taxes due on the $500 incentive. You also need to add that incentive into your calculations.

Using the numbers you have above and ignoring any fees, your pre-tax payment would be 594.09. Here is how I arrived at that doing it by formula and also the link to the Leasehackr calculator which gets the same amount:

Residual: 42,295 (76,900 * .55)
Adj Cap Cost: 60,500 (71,000 - 4,000 - 6,000 - 500)
Depreciation: 18,205 (60,500 - 42,295)
Base payment: 505.69 (18,205 / 36)
Interest: 88.40 ((60,500 + 42,295) * .00086)
Payment before taxes: 594.09

https://leasehackr.com/calculator?ma...w_demo_25=true

Edit: I just noticed you have the wrong MSRP listed in the beginning and that is what I used for my calculations. You need to include the $995 DH in the MSRP when you do the calculations.
Is the residual value always calculated by multiplying residual % with MSRP? For some reason I thought it would be based off the actual sale price. Lastly, if we wanted to calculate the sales tax, what is the value that would be taxed in this equation? Would it be the sale price less the residual value?
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      02-28-2021, 08:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akin67 View Post
Is the residual value always calculated by multiplying residual % with MSRP? For some reason I thought it would be based off the actual sale price. Lastly, if we wanted to calculate the sales tax, what is the value that would be taxed in this equation? Would it be the sale price less the residual value?
Residual is always based off MSRP.

Sales tax calculations vary by state but NJ should be like most other states and tax the monthly payment and no sales taxes are paid upfront (other than on the incentive).
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      02-28-2021, 08:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
Residual is always based off MSRP.

Sales tax calculations vary by state but NJ should be like most other states and tax the monthly payment and no sales taxes are paid upfront (other than on the incentive).
Thanks. In NJ sales tax is paid upfront.
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      02-28-2021, 08:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akin67 View Post
Thanks. In NJ sales tax is paid upfront.
Yes, I was looking into that after my post. It is upfront on the total lease payments.
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      02-28-2021, 09:30 PM   #7
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thanks for the feedback Turtleboy - given the car is insured, and I am in a lease; does the money down really matter if it gets Totaled? In that situation insurance would pay out; the car would get fixed - which I would return at end of lease.

can you explain what you mean- in terms of risk of loss of down payment?

thanks!
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      02-28-2021, 09:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apdpsudx View Post
thanks for the feedback Turtleboy - given the car is insured, and I am in a lease; does the money down really matter if it gets Totaled? In that situation insurance would pay out; the car would get fixed - which I would return at end of lease.

can you explain what you mean- in terms of risk of loss of down payment?

thanks!
Any money down for cap cost reduction is throw away money that you won't recoup at the end of your lease.

You're better off using that money for Multiple Security Deposits (MSDs):

Multiple Security Deposits (MSD)
With BMW FS, you can reduce your monthly payment by placing multiple security deposits upfront. Unlike a down payment (i.e., a capitalized cost reduction), you get this amount back at lease-end. MSDs work by lowering the money factor (MF) on a lease. MF is essentially the interest rate on a lease; lowering the MF reduces the finance charge you pay.

A security deposit is equal to your monthly payment (including tax) rounded to the nearest $50. A maximum of 7 security deposits are allowed up to a maximum of .00028. Each security deposit lowers the money factor by .00004.


BMW Financial Services
Multiple Security Deposit Program


BMW of North America in conjunction with BMW Financial Services are pleased to announce the extension of a modified Multiple Security Deposit (MSD) Rate Reduction Program continuing through January 3, 2022 and available for all customers who choose to either put multiple security deposits on their new lease, or transfer the balance from their existing lease at lease end. Please note the rate reduction has been reduced from .00005 to .00004 for 2021.

The structure for the program will be a money factor reduction of 4 points for every security deposit, with a maximum of 7 security deposits and a .00028 rate reduction.

The contracted rate may not go below 0.00004

Security Deposit Multiples: Rate Reduction:

1. -0.00004
2. -0.00008
3. -0.00012
4. -0.00016
5. -0.00020
6. -0.00024
7. -0.00028

Security Deposit Calculation:
– Security Deposit are calculated by rounding the customer’s payment up to the nearest $50 increment.

– For example, if the customer’s monthly payment is $425, each security deposit should be $450. If the customer transfers $3,150 (7 x $450), they will receive the maximum rate reduction of 28 points.

– The monthly payment should be calculated with the rate reduction first. If the customer’s payment is $425, but calculated at $399 once the 28 point reduction is applied, then the security deposit maximum is $2,800 (7 x $400).

– If the customer’s current security deposit amount exceeds the maximum needed for the rate reduction, the surplus can be remitted to the customer at lease end.
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Last edited by Auricom; 02-28-2021 at 09:53 PM..
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      02-28-2021, 09:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apdpsudx View Post
thanks for the feedback Turtleboy - given the car is insured, and I am in a lease; does the money down really matter if it gets Totaled? In that situation insurance would pay out; the car would get fixed - which I would return at end of lease.

can you explain what you mean- in terms of risk of loss of down payment?

thanks!
Yes, it definitely can matter. If a car is totaled then your insurance will pay the market value of the car to BMW and if there is any shortfall then the GAP insurance included with the lease will cover it. The only way you may get your down payment back is if the current market value would be higher than the payout amount of the lease. The would be highly unlikely early in the lease due to the depreciation that occurs early in a vehicle's life.

There are some instances where it could make financial sense to make a lease down payment (ignoring possible loss risk) but this instances are rare.
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      02-28-2021, 09:52 PM   #10
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are MSDs something they willingly tell customers is an option? never heard this before in our 13 years of leasing BMW! ACK!
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      02-28-2021, 09:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auricom View Post
Any money down for cap cost reduction is throw away money that you won't recoup at the end of your lease.
.
Just for clarification, it is not throw away money in the sense there is no value in it. It is used to reduce the lease debt so would result in lower payments. I have seen a few examples from posters where making a lease down payment resulted in a better return/result than not doing it or doing MSDs. in this case, MSDs would almost certainly be a better proposition.
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      02-28-2021, 09:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
are MSDs something they willingly tell customers is an option? never heard this before in our 13 years of leasing BMW! ACK!
Dealers don't go out of their way to suggest MSDs, LOL. It's one of these things you learn over the years leasing vehicles.
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      02-28-2021, 10:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
are MSDs something they willingly tell customers is an option? never heard this before in our 13 years of leasing BMW! ACK!
The MSD program was very limited for a number if years and was just brought back nationwide in 2019. I had to explain to the finance manager how to calculate the MSDS amount and the result payment since it was the first one he ever did.
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      02-28-2021, 10:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
Just for clarification, it is not throw away money in the sense there is no value in it. It is used to reduce the lease debt so would result in lower payments. I have seen a few examples from posters where making a lease down payment resulted in a better return/result than not doing it or doing MSDs. in this case, MSDs would almost certainly be a better proposition.
True, I do agree with you that it may make sense for leasee's when they're trying to lower monthly payments.

Perhaps with the current financial and employment winds, I'm more cautious in suggesting large cap cost reduction, when they're better off saving money for emergency or able to recoup that monies at the end of their lease.
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      03-01-2021, 09:19 AM   #15
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First - I really appreciate everyone's feedback and taking their time to help me out. So thank you!


I guess I have been thinking about this all wrong? to me the money down was just a way of buying relief of monthly payments (even after gettin a great deal).

Why did I want to put more down(normally I put only a couple grand) - buying a second home time in the next 3-4 months and I have extra liquidity available now. Meaning, on my mortgage application I have a 840 credit and am only carrying a revolving credit line of ~650/mo for a lease.

----

some follow up questions
1. a few people say a refundable deposit, to me that means - at the end of the lease I would get this back? I thought this was used to pay down the cap cost - residual (cost over life of lease)? I assume then any money back means its protecting me from fault but my monthly is not affected? Sorry I am misunderstanding.

2. I myself never heard of MSD either (previously over the last 15 years owned 4 mercedes, now on my 2nd Lexus rx560h - so seems like the pivot is to move away from money down, but ask about the MSD. Is the MSD redunable at lease end?

thanks again all!
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      03-01-2021, 09:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apdpsudx View Post
First - I really appreciate everyone's feedback and taking their time to help me out. So thank you!


I guess I have been thinking about this all wrong? to me the money down was just a way of buying relief of monthly payments (even after gettin a great deal).

Why did I want to put more down(normally I put only a couple grand) - buying a second home time in the next 3-4 months and I have extra liquidity available now. Meaning, on my mortgage application I have a 840 credit and am only carrying a revolving credit line of ~650/mo for a lease.

----

some follow up questions
1. a few people say a refundable deposit, to me that means - at the end of the lease I would get this back? I thought this was used to pay down the cap cost - residual (cost over life of lease)? I assume then any money back means its protecting me from fault but my monthly is not affected? Sorry I am misunderstanding.

2. I myself never heard of MSD either (previously over the last 15 years owned 4 mercedes, now on my 2nd Lexus rx560h - so seems like the pivot is to move away from money down, but ask about the MSD. Is the MSD redunable at lease end?

thanks again all!
1. Cap cost reduction (lease) or down payment (financing) is not refundable

2. MSD is refundable or can be rolled into your next BMWFS lease

For majority of my leases, I'll pay first month, fees (acquisition, title, tags, doc) upfront and roll my taxes into my lease and set aside/hold a percentage of my finances towards the lease - maintain liquidity.

With other leases, monies that would been used as cap cost reduction, I'll use to pay taxes and fees up front (not cap cost + fees + taxes up front).

BMWFS lease incentives apply to your lease as cap cost reduction.
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      03-02-2021, 03:27 PM   #17
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interesting response from the BMW dealership -
"Just wanted to let you know we cannot do MSD in the state of NY regardless of where the customer lives so I will not be able to get you that info.

I will work up the quote and send over shortly but the residual has changed from last month, it is now 54% for 10k."

So the residual dropped by 1% and they won't do MSD.

their lease offer looks like this now:

Vehicle Price: $77,895
Savings: $6,895
Price: $71,000
Sales Tax: $5,007
Documentation Fee: $75
Title Fee: $600
Tire Fee: $12.50
NYS Inspection: $10
Balance: $78,705

So no MSD they ran a lease calculator on this with the following
cash due upfront $3529 - 36month/10k $931/month
cash due upfront $6922 - 36month/10k $831/month
cash due upfront $10024 - 36month/10k $739/month

looks like all the feeds are rolling into the monthly payment rather than up front.

I am not sure how they go their numbers, but I cannot seem to get this value on leasehackr

thoughts?

thanks!
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      03-02-2021, 04:39 PM   #18
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They are correct, NY doesn't do MSDs. The new residuals came out this morning and they have gone down as they stated.

What is your sales tax rate, that seems awfully high since it should be based on the total lease payments. Looks like they have it around 13.5%. I didn't get to their numbers either but looks like a few things are missing, they are showing the acquisition fee or your $500 incentive.
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      03-02-2021, 10:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
They are correct, NY doesn't do MSDs. The new residuals came out this morning and they have gone down as they stated.

What is your sales tax rate, that seems awfully high since it should be based on the total lease payments. Looks like they have it around 13.5%. I didn't get to their numbers either but looks like a few things are missing, they are showing the acquisition fee or your $500 incentive.
The sales tax for luxury vehicles in NJ is 7.025%.
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      03-03-2021, 06:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
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The sales tax for luxury vehicles in NJ is 7.025%.
Then the tax amount is wrong. It should be 7.025% of the total lease payments not the vehicle price.
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      03-05-2021, 09:56 AM   #21
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here Is the current paperwork for my offer - thoughts?

why are acquisition fees, and title/inspection covered in the capital cost of a car?

76900 car
+ 600 title/lic/insp
+ 925 acquisition
- 500 rebate
77925 total, to which it looks like they are calculating the residual against. '
77925*54% = 42079.50 (I'm still not seeing how they get 42063.30!)

if this was calculated of the selling price of the car 71k (or even 71k+acquisition of 925) the residual is 38839.50 - 3500 difference!

am I doing this wrong?

thanks again for the help; I feel like the numbers aren't right.
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Last edited by apdpsudx; 03-05-2021 at 11:48 PM..
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      03-05-2021, 10:27 AM   #22
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This is very far from being a good deal. Have you looked at the marketplace on Leasehacker? Even with a broker fee of $500 you will come out far ahead. There are several brokers serving your area.
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