BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-04-2021, 11:54 AM   #23
funnbobby
New Member
2
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: Genesis G80
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmitch View Post
Please explain that a bit - what does not optimized mean?

yes, i'm curious as well. What kind of effect will it have after a software upgrade?

thanks in advance.

I'm about to order my x5 so i'm trying to see if the laser lights are worth it. if not, i'll eliminate the executive package.

what kind of increase in output will this coding have on the normal LED lights vs Laser?
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 11:59 AM   #24
VTENGR
Lieutenant Colonel
1044
Rep
1,943
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 M50i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmitch View Post
Please explain that a bit - what does not optimized mean?
When you code anti-dazzle you're doing two things. I don't know your baseline knowledge of coding so I'm going to boil it way down - I'm not trying to offend you.

The first thing you do is you remove the "decode anti-dazzle" option from the car. This essentially is telling the car that you have anti-dazzle. this is called VO coding.

The second thing you do is you "CODE" all the ECUs that control anti dazzle - because according to them, they still think the "decode anti-dazzle" is still one of your features (VO coding), so you have to update the ECU for your new feature list. This is called FDL coding.

VO coding is the parent code - FDL is a slave code. So if you change a VO parameter, you can simply update the FDL and it will follow the VO code. Alternatively you can simply FDL code every module in every ECU that's required to achieve the same thing.

Luckily the anti-dazzle is a VO code parameter so you don't need to FDL code each module.

Since you have gone through the steps to remove this feature, the car now thinks anti-dazzle is part of your option package - so every subsequent update will follow that parameter.

The optimization is where FDL coding is requiring. Since FDL is a slave to VO, any changes you make by FDL will be lost when BMW updates the software.

I hope this made sense and was easy to understand - there's a lot more detail to it but this is the broad brush of what's going on.
Appreciate 16
codex57214.00
Auricom4349.50
nvsocr755.00
ladra17.50
thezarb14.00
4ML INC65.50
nZtiZia4591.00
SKBSY885.00
aug0211162.00
RatedX0.00
      03-04-2021, 12:08 PM   #25
LexxM3
Colonel
LexxM3's Avatar
Canada
1698
Rep
2,609
Posts

Drives: E46M3, G05X5
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Waterloo, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by micmitch View Post
Please explain that a bit - what does not optimized mean?
When you code anti-dazzle you're doing two things. I don't know your baseline knowledge of coding so I'm going to boil it way down - I'm not trying to offend you.

The first thing you do is you remove the "decode anti-dazzle" option from the car. This essentially is telling the car that you have anti-dazzle. this is called VO coding.

The second thing you do is you "CODE" all the ECUs that control anti dazzle - because according to them, they still think the "decode anti-dazzle" is still one of your features (VO coding), so you have to update the ECU for your new feature list. This is called FDL coding.

VO coding is the parent code - FDL is a slave code. So if you change a VO parameter, you can simply update the FDL and it will follow the VO code. Alternatively you can simply FDL code every module in every ECU that's required to achieve the same thing.

Luckily the anti-dazzle is a VO code parameter so you don't need to FDL code each module.

Since you have gone through the steps to remove this feature, the car now thinks anti-dazzle is part of your option package - so every subsequent update will follow that parameter.

The optimization is where FDL coding is requiring. Since FDL is a slave to VO, any changes you make by FDL will be lost when BMW updates the software.

I hope this made sense and was easy to understand - there's a lot more detail to it but this is the broad brush of what's going on.
I don't know what Ben meant by "optimized" either, and while your explanation is good, it is unfortunately incomplete as of around 03/2020.xx (I-STEP and/or manufactured cars dates). Now, at the very least *some* cars appear to also require additional FDL coding beyond just the original VO coding to remove the anti-dazzle decode option fully. See Trojanlaw's work/posts in the forum.
__________________
G05 X5 x40i (04/2019 mfg, Canada) on S18A-19-11-540
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 12:25 PM   #26
VTENGR
Lieutenant Colonel
1044
Rep
1,943
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 M50i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
I don't know what Ben meant by "optimized" either, and while your explanation is good, it is unfortunately incomplete as of around 03/2020.xx (I-STEP and/or manufactured cars dates). Now, at the very least *some* cars appear to also require additional FDL coding beyond just the original VO coding to remove the anti-dazzle decode option fully. See Trojanlaw's work/posts in the forum.
Yep. Most likely you're going to lose anti-dazzle with each software version due to these FDL coding requirements needed.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 01:23 PM   #27
jcardea
Private First Class
116
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 xDrive40I
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Statesville NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
When you code anti-dazzle you're doing two things. I don't know your baseline knowledge of coding so I'm going to boil it way down - I'm not trying to offend you.

The first thing you do is you remove the "decode anti-dazzle" option from the car. This essentially is telling the car that you have anti-dazzle. this is called VO coding.

The second thing you do is you "CODE" all the ECUs that control anti dazzle - because according to them, they still think the "decode anti-dazzle" is still one of your features (VO coding), so you have to update the ECU for your new feature list. This is called FDL coding.

VO coding is the parent code - FDL is a slave code. So if you change a VO parameter, you can simply update the FDL and it will follow the VO code. Alternatively you can simply FDL code every module in every ECU that's required to achieve the same thing.

Luckily the anti-dazzle is a VO code parameter so you don't need to FDL code each module.

Since you have gone through the steps to remove this feature, the car now thinks anti-dazzle is part of your option package - so every subsequent update will follow that parameter.

The optimization is where FDL coding is requiring. Since FDL is a slave to VO, any changes you make by FDL will be lost when BMW updates the software.

I hope this made sense and was easy to understand - there's a lot more detail to it but this is the broad brush of what's going on.

Seems to me that based on VTENGR quote below, if the VO code for anti-dazzle is done, it will be permanent even after a software update push. Because he said VO is the parent, and then he said "so every subsequent update will follow that parameter:

"Luckily the anti-dazzle is a VO code parameter so you don't need to FDL code each module."

"Since you have gone through the steps to remove this feature, the car now thinks anti-dazzle is part of your option package - so every subsequent update will follow that parameter."
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 02:12 PM   #28
VTENGR
Lieutenant Colonel
1044
Rep
1,943
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 M50i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardea View Post
Seems to me that based on VTENGR quote below, if the VO code for anti-dazzle is done, it will be permanent even after a software update push. Because he said VO is the parent, and then he said "so every subsequent update will follow that parameter:

"Luckily the anti-dazzle is a VO code parameter so you don't need to FDL code each module."

"Since you have gone through the steps to remove this feature, the car now thinks anti-dazzle is part of your option package - so every subsequent update will follow that parameter."
Yes - that would be mostly true but BMW updated the software 03/2020.xx to make it such that some FDL coding is required even after the VO code to remove anti dazzle is done. So to correctly describe what will happen - the VO code that removes the "decode anti-dazzle" feature will remain intact after software updates. However, you'll have to redo all the FLD coding to re-enable it.
Appreciate 3
codex57214.00
jcardea116.00
ladra17.50
      03-04-2021, 03:23 PM   #29
Spencer518
First Lieutenant
Spencer518's Avatar
United_States
195
Rep
351
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 45e
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Albany, NY

iTrader: (0)

Has BMW ever stated publicly that they will enable the feature on existing cars once the US government allows this technology?
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 03:55 PM   #30
nosnoop
Major
Canada
838
Rep
1,236
Posts

Drives: 5 Series
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
Has BMW ever stated publicly that they will enable the feature on existing cars once the US government allows this technology?
No, and I am quite certain that they would not do so.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 05:10 PM   #31
funnbobby
New Member
2
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: Genesis G80
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks to everyone for all of the detailed explanations on coding. I am coming from a lifetime of Acura ownership so BMW ECU coding is new to me.

But being a tech geek I understand what the issue is.

Question. Without coding, what then is the advantage of the laser lights vs standard LEDs? Is it just that the high beams are a bit brighter on the lasers? Are the low beam outputs the same?

I’m asking because the only reason I wanted the executive package was the laser lights and my perception that they’re significantly better than the stock LEDs that some with the premium package.

Looking for all opinions. Thanks so much. This seems to be a really passionate owners group. Similar to the groups on Acurazine.
Appreciate 1
RatedX0.00
      03-04-2021, 06:29 PM   #32
nosnoop
Major
Canada
838
Rep
1,236
Posts

Drives: 5 Series
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funnbobby View Post
Question. Without coding, what then is the advantage of the laser lights vs standard LEDs? Is it just that the high beams are a bit brighter on the lasers? Are the low beam outputs the same?
Low beams are not the same.
Laser lights have 4 projector low beam lights.
Standards LEDs have 2 projector low beam lights and the two inner headlights do not light up.
The daytime running light graphics also look completely different.

Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 06:35 PM   #33
TurtleBoy
General
TurtleBoy's Avatar
12879
Rep
19,386
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 40i,2021 M340i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funnbobby View Post
Thanks to everyone for all of the detailed explanations on coding. I am coming from a lifetime of Acura ownership so BMW ECU coding is new to me.

But being a tech geek I understand what the issue is.

Question. Without coding, what then is the advantage of the laser lights vs standard LEDs? Is it just that the high beams are a bit brighter on the lasers? Are the low beam outputs the same?

I’m asking because the only reason I wanted the executive package was the laser lights and my perception that they’re significantly better than the stock LEDs that some with the premium package.

Looking for all opinions. Thanks so much. This seems to be a really passionate owners group. Similar to the groups on Acurazine.
Putting performance aside, many think the laser lights have a much better look to them due to the DRLs and also because both lights on each side have bulbs. With the non-lasers, the inside bulb is a dummy.

The laser lights also give you cornering lights and the non-lasers do not.

As far as performance goes, the laser lights are brighter in high beams even when the laser aren't engaged. Once they are then not only are they even brighter but also more focused on the road ahead.

The non-lasers are brighter in low beam, that is what causes the glare and why they are rated poor by the IIHS.
__________________
2021 BMW G20 M340i xDrive - Verde Ermes/Black - 03/2023.67
2019 BMW G05 X5 xDrive40i - Phytonic Blue/Cognac - 11/2023.50
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 08:29 PM   #34
VTENGR
Lieutenant Colonel
1044
Rep
1,943
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 M50i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funnbobby View Post
Thanks to everyone for all of the detailed explanations on coding. I am coming from a lifetime of Acura ownership so BMW ECU coding is new to me.

But being a tech geek I understand what the issue is.

Question. Without coding, what then is the advantage of the laser lights vs standard LEDs? Is it just that the high beams are a bit brighter on the lasers? Are the low beam outputs the same?

I’m asking because the only reason I wanted the executive package was the laser lights and my perception that they’re significantly better than the stock LEDs that some with the premium package.

Looking for all opinions. Thanks so much. This seems to be a really passionate owners group. Similar to the groups on Acurazine.
In the US - many will argue this point but I'll say it anyway - it's mostly for looks. The addition of cornering lights is nice, but for me 100% looks.
Appreciate 1
GrussGott18113.00
      03-04-2021, 09:02 PM   #35
nZtiZia
Major General
nZtiZia's Avatar
United_States
4591
Rep
8,553
Posts

Drives: eVeRyOnE mAD!
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: neither here nor there...

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
yeah, for me, strictly alumni choice.
[COLOR="Navy"]blue[/COLOR] laser light housing, [COLOR="DimGray"]grey[/COLOR] vehicle paint
GO HOYAS!
:P
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2021, 09:46 PM   #36
jad03060
Major General
United_States
3127
Rep
6,728
Posts

Drives: X5 45e
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NH

iTrader: (0)

Since the as delivered vehicle doesn’t generally make changes to the module that disables the functionality of the anti-dazzle, when new software is installed, it doesn’t overwrite it to include it again...but, it changes everything else, which has some of the optimization ‘switches’ in it, so while some parts of it will still work because that module is still not there, the optimization bits in the modules that are changed, are reverted to factory, so must be redone. Some places will do that for you as part of their ‘package’ price, but until that’s done, you won’t have full functionality any more.
Appreciate 1
RatedX0.00
      03-04-2021, 10:06 PM   #37
funnbobby
New Member
2
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: Genesis G80
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
Putting performance aside, many think the laser lights have a much better look to them due to the DRLs and also because both lights on each side have bulbs. With the non-lasers, the inside bulb is a dummy.

The laser lights also give you cornering lights and the non-lasers do not.

As far as performance goes, the laser lights are brighter in high beams even when the laser aren't engaged. Once they are then not only are they even brighter but also more focused on the road ahead.

The non-lasers are brighter in low beam, that is what causes the glare and why they are rated poor by the IIHS.


the low beams are brighter on the standard LED's? how's this possible if the inside bulb is a dummy on the LEDs vs the lasers?

Low beam is most important to me for daily driving. are the standard led's higher output in terms of lumens and distance vs the laser low beams?
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2021, 06:14 AM   #38
jcardea
Private First Class
116
Rep
181
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 xDrive40I
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Statesville NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
Yes - that would be mostly true but BMW updated the software 03/2020.xx to make it such that some FDL coding is required even after the VO code to remove anti dazzle is done. So to correctly describe what will happen - the VO code that removes the "decode anti-dazzle" feature will remain intact after software updates. However, you'll have to redo all the FLD coding to re-enable it.
Well i do understand but my next question would be "how often does BMW have a vehicle update pushed out" This will be my first BMW so i haven't a clue
Thanks in avance
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2021, 08:19 AM   #39
TurtleBoy
General
TurtleBoy's Avatar
12879
Rep
19,386
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 40i,2021 M340i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funnbobby View Post
the low beams are brighter on the standard LED's? how's this possible if the inside bulb is a dummy on the LEDs vs the lasers?

Low beam is most important to me for daily driving. are the standard led's higher output in terms of lumens and distance vs the laser low beams?
Brightness is not determined by the number of bulbs. The standard low beams are brighter/farther throw than the laser low beams.

Lasers (without lasers engaged):

Name:  Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 7.17.41 AM.png
Views: 1585
Size:  218.7 KB

Standard LEDs:

Name:  Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 7.17.54 AM.png
Views: 1581
Size:  213.1 KB

Source: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...019#headlights
__________________
2021 BMW G20 M340i xDrive - Verde Ermes/Black - 03/2023.67
2019 BMW G05 X5 xDrive40i - Phytonic Blue/Cognac - 11/2023.50
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2021, 08:21 AM   #40
TurtleBoy
General
TurtleBoy's Avatar
12879
Rep
19,386
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 40i,2021 M340i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardea View Post
Well i do understand but my next question would be "how often does BMW have a vehicle update pushed out" This will be my first BMW so i haven't a clue
Thanks in avance
Neither does BMW.

In theory it should eventually be three times a year to mimic their major software release schedule.
__________________
2021 BMW G20 M340i xDrive - Verde Ermes/Black - 03/2023.67
2019 BMW G05 X5 xDrive40i - Phytonic Blue/Cognac - 11/2023.50
Appreciate 2
LexxM31697.50
codex57214.00
      03-05-2021, 10:32 AM   #41
codex57
Lieutenant
214
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 45e, Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardea View Post
Well i do understand but my next question would be "how often does BMW have a vehicle update pushed out" This will be my first BMW so i haven't a clue
Thanks in avance
Mine was a mid or late November build, yet it came with the July software instead of the November one. So apparently neither does the factory. Still waiting on that November update (not stressed cuz nothing interesting in it).

Meanwhile, my Tesla has received at least one (maybe two, can't remember) updates since I've gotten the BMW.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2021, 12:32 PM   #42
smomin23
First Lieutenant
smomin23's Avatar
United_States
311
Rep
332
Posts

Drives: BMW X5
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: US

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funnbobby View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
Putting performance aside, many think the laser lights have a much better look to them due to the DRLs and also because both lights on each side have bulbs. With the non-lasers, the inside bulb is a dummy.

The laser lights also give you cornering lights and the non-lasers do not.

As far as performance goes, the laser lights are brighter in high beams even when the laser aren't engaged. Once they are then not only are they even brighter but also more focused on the road ahead.

The non-lasers are brighter in low beam, that is what causes the glare and why they are rated poor by the IIHS.


the low beams are brighter on the standard LED's? how's this possible if the inside bulb is a dummy on the LEDs vs the lasers?

Low beam is most important to me for daily driving. are the standard led's higher output in terms of lumens and distance vs the laser low beams?
In addition to the information TurtleBoy has provided, you should also consider that if you get laser and enable anti dazzle, you'll essentially have your high beams on 95% of the time.

Because the anti dazzle adjusts the projection at all times, your car should run high beams exclusively at most times.

To be fair mine haven't been coded yet so this is a bit of theory based on an understanding of the system but hasn't been tested in the real world by me.
__________________
SSMXV
Appreciate 1
      03-05-2021, 12:44 PM   #43
TurtleBoy
General
TurtleBoy's Avatar
12879
Rep
19,386
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 40i,2021 M340i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smomin23 View Post
Because the anti dazzle adjusts the projection at all times, your car should run high beams exclusively at most times.

To be fair mine haven't been coded yet so this is a bit of theory based on an understanding of the system but hasn't been tested in the real world by me.
I could be wrong but I believe that the light conditions for the high beam will also need to be met in order for them to kick on. In other words, coding the anti-dazzle doesn't change the light level required for the auto high beams to turn on. I'm sure someone who has done the coding can confirm/correct that.
__________________
2021 BMW G20 M340i xDrive - Verde Ermes/Black - 03/2023.67
2019 BMW G05 X5 xDrive40i - Phytonic Blue/Cognac - 11/2023.50
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2021, 02:34 PM   #44
smomin23
First Lieutenant
smomin23's Avatar
United_States
311
Rep
332
Posts

Drives: BMW X5
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: US

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
I could be wrong but I believe that the light conditions for the high beam will also need to be met in order for them to kick on. In other words, coding the anti-dazzle doesn't change the light level required for the auto high beams to turn on. I'm sure someone who has done the coding can confirm/correct that.
I believe that's true as well but I'm basing my theory on my driving experience thus far.

I live in a quiet neighborhood and even though are streets are well lit, around twilight the auto high beams will usually kick on if there's no cars around. Leads me to believe if I had anti-dazzle and there were cars around it would still kick on and adjust the projection accordingly.

Hopefully someone with first hand knowledge can shed some light (LOL...see what I did there?) on this.
__________________
SSMXV
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST