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      10-28-2020, 06:17 PM   #23
jad03060
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Out of curiosity, did you try the procedure in the manual to get the thing into neutral?
- press and hold the brake pedal
- press and hold the start/stop button
- hold the gear lever button in
- move the lever to neutral

There may be a bypass in the logic to allow selection of neutral when it can't/won't start and work normally.

The service managers don't necessarily know all of the tricks of each model, as things do change and there are a lot of them!
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      10-28-2020, 06:35 PM   #24
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Being stranded in an isolated location with a non-functioning car can happen. And a simple tow likely won't work with any modern electronic automotive marvel. The price we pay for technology - a '57 Chevy is easier to get back on the road even in semi-civilized parts of the country or world with chicken-wire and string. Of more concern is that the BMW network may be too thin in materiel or talent to accomplish this in, say, Flagstaff or Boise, at least in a timely manner. And equally that a pushed software update could cause it to happen. Again, the price for cutting, if not bleeding edge technology. Modern automobiles do not have the built-in redundancy of, say, modern aircraft, but fortunately the consequences of failure are generally not as lethal, though they become more likely to happen the more complicated the device. And I expect BMW is not unique.
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      10-28-2020, 09:20 PM   #25
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Wow, so this happened to you because of a bricked OTA update? That's just like the other guy with the X7! His OTA failed due to an issue with one of his laser lights. Does your X5 have laser too?
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      10-29-2020, 03:02 AM   #26
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One thing to remember is this is a ZF design choice, not a BMW one. Every vehicle using the ZF 8HP is going to have this issue and ZF has two different style releases for the transmission as they done revisions over the years to it.

Here's their patent for it: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/8161837.html

And it looks like companies are making a remote release tool for it as well, but you still have to get under it and remove the panel to get it on there:
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      10-29-2020, 06:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
One thing to remember is this is a ZF design choice, not a BMW one. Every vehicle using the ZF 8HP is going to have this issue and ZF has two different style releases for the transmission as they done revisions over the years to it.

Here's their patent for it: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/8161837.html

And it looks like companies are making a remote release tool for it as well, but you still have to get under it and remove the panel to get it on there:
This is super interesting, thanks for posting. But ...

The video highlights several additional situational deficiencies of this design that I personally had not even considered, including danger to life and property situations. It is even more clear that this is not only an idiotic design, but a grossly incompetent one. Fair enough that it's not BMW engineers but rather ZF that completely failed at safe component engineering, but it is BMW engineers that chose to accept this design into their system and failed to route a safe release mechanism into the cabin — they are definitively not off the hook.
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      10-30-2020, 03:37 PM   #28
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Wow. I don't know why NHTSA has not been all over this. That's the most Rube Goldberg proposition I've seen on a car, but obviously the best solution available.
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      10-30-2020, 04:06 PM   #29
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That transmission is used in more than just BMW vehicles...

Then, you have to consider if an easy way to get a vehicle into neutral existed, how would that affect theft? Which is more likely to happen, your vehicle being towed away fairly easily if it can be put into neutral, or the chance that an OTA s/w update would brick that function? Hopefully, neither happens to you, but there's a risk/benefit to most any design decision. FWIW, BMW buys the transmission, they don't make it. That's no excuse.
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      10-30-2020, 06:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
That transmission is used in more than just BMW vehicles...

Then, you have to consider if an easy way to get a vehicle into neutral existed, how would that affect theft? Which is more likely to happen, your vehicle being towed away fairly easily if it can be put into neutral, or the chance that an OTA s/w update would brick that function? Hopefully, neither happens to you, but there's a risk/benefit to most any design decision. FWIW, BMW buys the transmission, they don't make it. That's no excuse.
The Ram 1500 has the same transmission I think (850RE for the V6) and has an under dash release for this specific situation. I keep hoping we are ALL overlooking a really simple solution and keep coming back for the good news so I can buy this...
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      10-31-2020, 12:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njt07 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
That transmission is used in more than just BMW vehicles...

Then, you have to consider if an easy way to get a vehicle into neutral existed, how would that affect theft? Which is more likely to happen, your vehicle being towed away fairly easily if it can be put into neutral, or the chance that an OTA s/w update would brick that function? Hopefully, neither happens to you, but there's a risk/benefit to most any design decision. FWIW, BMW buys the transmission, they don't make it. That's no excuse.
The Ram 1500 has the same transmission I think (850RE for the V6) and has an under dash release for this specific situation. I keep hoping we are ALL overlooking a really simple solution and keep coming back for the good news so I can buy this...
By and large, X5 is a fantastic car. But no, we're not overlooking anything. I have the BMW bulletin that documents the under car/specialized tool procedure and have discussed it with my service manager in detail — we're both incredulous and appalled, but the situation is real.
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      10-31-2020, 12:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
Then, you have to consider if an easy way to get a vehicle into neutral existed, how would that affect theft? Which is more likely to happen, your vehicle being towed away fairly easily if it can be put into neutral, or the chance that an OTA s/w update would brick that function? Hopefully, neither happens to you, but there's a risk/benefit to most any design decision.
And the previous 20 years of cars with electronically-controlled transmissions and in-cabin releases didn't consider this issue? I don't buy this argument one bit.
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      10-31-2020, 08:58 AM   #33
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Had a thread about it before. And the only solution i was able to find is dollies

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730725

Consensus is - in order to tow our cars one need to have special dollies rated for SUV weigh $379 a piece. Need 4 of them $1600 - just in case - pretty concerning when calling for a tow - not only you need to ask for big flatbed to fit an SUV - you need to make sure he comes with special SUV rated dollies to tow the car.
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      10-31-2020, 09:01 AM   #34
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      10-31-2020, 01:41 PM   #35
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Since this is such a big issue why hasn't someone already addressed this with NHTSA? I would recommend that anyone who has had this happen should report it NHTSA so they can investigate it. Especially if they got stranded.

It's totally ridiculous that BMW did not install a method of overriding this lock out like other automakers have.
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      10-31-2020, 02:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch57 View Post
Since this is such a big issue why hasn't someone already addressed this with NHTSA? I would recommend that anyone who has had this happen should report it NHTSA so they can investigate it. Especially if they got stranded.

It's totally ridiculous that BMW did not install a method of overriding this lock out like other automakers have.
Check out this horror story - not only over the air update go wrong - he could not tow it after

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730239
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      11-01-2020, 12:52 PM   #37
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One comment to add here. Everyone should carry one of those battery jump packs. If your battery ever goes dead you can power the vehicle long enough to get the trans in neutral. Gives your options for a tow or restart.
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      11-01-2020, 01:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan5034 View Post
One comment to add here. Everyone should carry one of those battery jump packs. If your battery ever goes dead you can power the vehicle long enough to get the trans in neutral. Gives your options for a tow or restart.
It's good advice, but not quite that simple. You have to remember to maintain the charge in those battery packs — self-discharge (particularly at temperature extremes) is real and only a month or two may well be all it takes to get to unusable levels depending on the luck-of-the draw battery in your unit. Also, of course, this thread and the other "X7 disaster" thread's root issue is not battery, but rather software/electronics failure and a charger wouldn't help.

But still good advice and we have lots of good extra storage spots in the back to carry those. I do.
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      02-19-2021, 04:15 PM   #39
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Same no start problem as OP Key fob not recognized

Key fob unlocks car
Key fob will not start car.
Additional Key fob will not start car
Key Card will not start car
Car transmission stuck in Park
Parking brake on won't turn off.
Windows are rolled down and will not roll up.
Messages to hold fob next to column didn't help.
New key fob battery didn't help.
SA at Irvine BMW says she has never seen this happen before.

2021 BMW x5 sDrive 40i
did OTA update a couple months ago .

No other problems other than climate control putts out cold air when set to 72 degrees on a 58 degree day.
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      02-20-2021, 12:40 PM   #40
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Curious to me why BMW decided to do this. Someone had to make a conscious decision to remove any reasonable way to put it in neutral. Just seems very myopic and/or lazy.
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      02-20-2021, 02:06 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
Out of curiosity, did you try the procedure in the manual to get the thing into neutral?
- press and hold the brake pedal
- press and hold the start/stop button
- hold the gear lever button in
- move the lever to neutral

There may be a bypass in the logic to allow selection of neutral when it can't/won't start and work normally.

The service managers don't necessarily know all of the tricks of each model, as things do change and there are a lot of them!
Curious if this was tried as well...
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      02-23-2021, 03:28 PM   #42
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Fixed after tow. VEHICLE KEYS DESYNCHRONIZED FROM BODY DOMAIN CONTROLLER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guardodoc View Post
Key fob unlocks car
Key fob will not start car.
Additional Key fob will not start car
Key Card will not start car
Car transmission stuck in Park
Parking brake on won't turn off.
Windows are rolled down and will not roll up.
Messages to hold fob next to column didn't help.
New key fob battery didn't help.
SA at Irvine BMW says she has never seen this happen before.

2021 BMW x5 sDrive 40i
did OTA update a couple months ago .

No other problems other than climate control putts out cold air when set to 72 degrees on a 58 degree day.
OK Here is the report:
VEHICLE KEYS DESYNCRONIZED FROM BODY DOMAIN CONTROLLER (BDC MODULE) VEHICLE WOULD NOT START WITH PROVIDED KEYS. CONNECTED BATTERY CHARGER, PERFORMED VEHICLE TEST. FOUND FAULTS RELATING TO STEERING ANGLE SENSOR AND DRIVE READINESS ERRORS. PERFORMED TEST PLAN FOR STEERING ANGLE SENSOR, TEST PLAN INCONCLUSIVE. PERFORMED TEST PLAN FOR DRIVER READINESS ERRORS.. TEST PLAN INDICATES TO CHECK SIGNAL OF PROVIDED KEY REMOTE. TEST PLAN SHOWS BOTH BOTH PROVIDED KEYS HAVE PROPER SIGNAL AND BATTERY AT 100% TEST PLAN ATTEMPTED TO IDENTIFY KEY, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY KEYS DUE TO PARK STSTUS BEING SET WHEN LOCKED, UNABLE TO SET PAD MODEE UNLESS VEHICLE TEST RAN. SHARED FINDINGS WITH SHOP FOREMAN, AND SUBMITTED TSARA CASE 8491. PER TECHNICAL SUPPORT REQUEST PERFORMED BATTERY RESET. REMOVE REAR TRUNK PANEL TO GAIN ACCESS TO 12V BATTERY. REMOVED WIPERS, REMOVED ENGINE COWLING TO GAIN ACCESS TO 48V BATTERY CONNECTIONS. PERFORMED BATTERY RESET, FOUND VEHICLE TO START PROPERLY WITH PROVIDED KEYS. PER TSARA AGENT FINDINGS, DETERMINED VEHICLE KEYS DESYNCHRONIZED FROM BODY DOMAIN CONTROLLER (BDC) MODULE. NO FURTHER REPAIRS REQUIRED PER TSARA AGENT. CLEARED FAULT MEMORY. LET VEHICLE SIT THROUGH DAY AND MONITORED VEHICLE STARTUP, FOUND NORMAL OPERATION PRESENT AT EACH STARTUP, PERFORMED FINAL FAULT CHECK , NO FAULTS PRESENT. GUEST CONCERN RESOLVED AT THIS TIME. DIGITAL KEY CARD LEFT IN CUPHOLDER

Just wonder how much this would have cost out of warranty.

Note:
1.I had to reset all vehicle settings as all reverted to factory settings including interior lighting , drive modes, lane intervention, seats etc.

2. changed oil with 65 83-21-5-A42-D32 BMW GROUP LL-17 FE+ 0W20 $175.64 less 70.72 for coupon = $110.55
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