[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by moodyhank82

Yeah they really botched that Genesis brand launch with the G70, I know you were very active on G70 forums at the time. It was a disaster with people in different states trying to figure out if/when they can buy a G70...

That is for sure and things were delayed/uncertain with the new G80 and GV80. Either they have the worst luck of any auto manufacture or the worst management. In my opinion it is a mix of both.

The dealers have been fighting them tooth and nail ever since it was announced that Genesis was starting their own separate entity. Things finally calmed down a bit but when Genesis came out with their incentive plan to get dealers to build stand-alone facilities things blew up again. They really need to cull the dealer roles but at this point it would be very expensive to do so. They did buyouts during the first phase and got rid of about half the existing Hyundai dealerships and have only lost a few since then. Maybe once the full vehicle line-up is available and more revenue is flowing in they will be able to further reduce the dealer numbers by concentrating on increasing the quality of the consumer experience.

While all Genesis dealers are contractually obligated to provide the Owner services that Genesis offers there are still many that do not. It is that and the "Hyundai" level mindset of the sales experience that needs to change if they are going to succeed in being recognized as a top their luxury brand.

Stepping down from the soapbox.....

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by jstein55

The perception behind "unreliability" of german brands is associated with long term ownership and outside of the warranty. The "awards" that Porsche and BMW are winning are "initial" so the first year or so, in which one would hope any car would not be unreliable first year regardless of brand. When it comes to long term ownership a german car will most likely require more upkeep than say a Lexus.

They are measured over a 3 year period. As you mentioned, the first 3 years. But it's Apples to Apples. The same 3 year period for Hyundai for example.

[robby818]

I like the rear end especially the LED lights. Much better than the X5 IMO. The grille is too large but that seems to be the trend across all the brands.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by robby818

I like the rear end especially the LED lights. Much better than the X5 IMO. The grille is too large but that seems to be the trend across all the brands.

I agree, except for the grill and possibly the side lights, I think it is a better looking vehicle than the X5. Although there are quite a few reasons I would not consider getting one, I think the interior is at the top of the list. Just does not look good to me at all. Then again, it won the poll on our site for the most luxurious looking so obviously my taste must not be the norm.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I agree, except for the grill and possibly the side lights, I think it is a better looking vehicle than the X5. Although there are quite a few reasons I would not consider getting one, I think the interior is at the top of the list. Just does not look good to me at all. Then again, it won the poll on our site for the most luxurious looking so obviously my taste must not be the norm.

Right, the GV80 got a 32% rating in the poll. Like any other car, there are parts of it that look great and parts that don't. I never liked the rear of the G05 but I don't like the front of the GV80. It is what it is and there are enough people in the world that it will sell. Time will tell just how well. At some point I'll go drive one because that's just what I like to do, drive all the cars in any segment I have an interest in.

There are cars I really thought I would want to buy from seeing pix, reading reviews and owners impressions but when I sat in them and drove them, it was easy for me not to like them. Cars are something you have to experience first hand and especially those you have not owned before.

The pix that are in the Hagerty article were well done and make the car look nice on the inside, well except for that Buick Century steering wheel

I can tell you one thing though and I don't want to come across as being a car snob but I don't look forward to walking into a Hyundai dealership to drive one.

.

[SHARMAATL]

First GV80 models have landed at dealerships.

As expected, they are being marked up. Here's a Leasehackr thread from one of the Genesis dealers, where he's sold one for around $5K above MSRP.

Anyone here trying to pay $80K for a Genesis?

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/first...-5t-awd/314574

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

First GV80 models have landed at dealerships.

As expected, they are being marked up. Here's a Leasehackr thread from one of the Genesis dealers, where he's sold one for around $5K above MSRP.

Anyone here trying to pay $80K for a Genesis?

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/first...-5t-awd/314574

Its a great vehicle but above MSRP, no thank you, especially without real dealers. The whole point of Genesis is value (and maybe reliability). That being said, the dealer who posted that on LH did sell it the next day above MSRP still.

[TurtleBoy]

Genesus is moving away from being the value luxury brand. Their plan is to offer products as good or better than the competitors and price accordingly.

Some dealers have a 10k markup on them. My guess is we will see markups from many dealers for the next 6 months or so, especially if the preorders are all still valid.

[codex57]

I think their products are good enough to allow for them to move up from being a "value" luxury brand. It's what the market will bear. Plenty of luxury brand owners are brand agnostic and will go with their own "perceived" value. Once enough of them are commonplace, sheer volume will get people used to the brand and it'll be just another luxury brand like Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, etc. The Japanese were in the same position. The Koreans are just following those footpaths and I see nothing wrong with that. More competition is good for consumers.

[stein_325i]

They should take a page out of Lexus' book and establish real dealers with great service. While Lexus is based off Toyota, they had value, excellent dealers, and reliability on their side. And despite Toyota is a mainstream brand, they have a good reputation, while Hyundai, despite improving exponentially, still have the s**tbox image from the 90's to a lot of people, and their dealers have a bad rep too, going to be much harder selling a $75k vehicle than the $20k Elantra with that type of service.

[thereef510]

paying a surcharge for a Kia in the middle of a pandemic is the most 2020 thing ever.

[thereef510]

Originally Posted by codex57

I think their products are good enough to allow for them to move up from being a "value" luxury brand. It's what the market will bear. Plenty of luxury brand owners are brand agnostic and will go with their own "perceived" value. Once enough of them are commonplace, sheer volume will get people used to the brand and it'll be just another luxury brand like Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, etc. The Japanese were in the same position. The Koreans are just following those footpaths and I see nothing wrong with that. More competition is good for consumers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Japanese on the cutting edge of tech across the board throughout the 80s/90s/etc? I'm too young to know but they weren't just offering reliability and good dealer service right? They at least kept up with or tried to innovate with tech at least as much as the Germans? What is Genesis bringing to the table that we don't already have? it's still a knockoff product that's imitating the competition...

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by thereef510

paying a surcharge for a Kia in the middle of a pandemic is the most 2020 thing ever.

Just typical Asian knock off crap. We had a Lexus rx350 and it was no better than any off the other junk from over there. That vehicle was a joke compared to an X5, underpowered, bunch of cheesy plastic all over the exterior, lots of vibrations through the column, horrible user unfriendly electronics/nav doors that closed like a tin can and more.
I always crack up when I see people with those dead knock off S-Class Benz Genesis turds with the Bentley looking emblems. Shameless ripoffs.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

They should take a page out of Lexus' book and establish real dealers with great service. While Lexus is based off Toyota, they had value, excellent dealers, and reliability on their side. And despite Toyota is a mainstream brand, they have a good reputation, while Hyundai, despite improving exponentially, still have the s**tbox image from the 90's to a lot of people, and their dealers have a bad rep too, going to be much harder selling a $75k vehicle than the $20k Elantra with that type of service.

They would love to be able to establish appropriate dealers but unfortunately so far that is not possible due to existing contracts and numerous lawsuits. At this point they are just hoping the bad dealers leave and good dealers thrive once their product line is flushed out.

There have been over 15,000 pre-orders with deposits for the GV80 so that is a start. Unfortunately right now they are predicting only producing 2k units a month for the NA market so it will be awhile until the initial demand, or anticipated demand, is met. If sales continue like that, as well as what the sales will be from the other new models coming out, then perhaps we will see more standalone dealerships/showrooms.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by thereef510

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Japanese on the cutting edge of tech across the board throughout the 80s/90s/etc? I'm too young to know but they weren't just offering reliability and good dealer service right? They at least kept up with or tried to innovate with tech at least as much as the Germans? What is Genesis bringing to the table that we don't already have? it's still a knockoff product that's imitating the competition...

One could argue their technology is as good or better than what the German's are currently offering. One item that appears to be more advanced is the driving assistance. Their system uses AI to learn how the driver likes to drive and then incorporates it into the cruise system. This is all from marketing obviously since there is no real life experience here in the US. It will be interesting to see in a year or so what the owners are saying.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by thereef510

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Japanese on the cutting edge of tech across the board throughout the 80s/90s/etc? I'm too young to know but they weren't just offering reliability and good dealer service right? They at least kept up with or tried to innovate with tech at least as much as the Germans? What is Genesis bringing to the table that we don't already have? it's still a knockoff product that's imitating the competition...

I believe that was Japan's "Bubble Era Cars." This was when the Japanese economy was at its best, and Toyota and other Japanese automakers had a lot of money to make some cool stuff.

These Are The Insane "Bubble Cars" From When Mazda Went Nuts 20 Years Ago

[Galion]

Hyundai? No thanks

[teefive]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Just typical Asian knock off crap. We had a Lexus rx350 and it was no better than any off the other junk from over there. That vehicle was a joke compared to an X5, underpowered, bunch of cheesy plastic all over the exterior, lots of vibrations through the column, horrible user unfriendly electronics/nav doors that closed like a tin can and more.
I always crack up when I see people with those dead knock off S-Class Benz Genesis turds with the Bentley looking emblems. Shameless ripoffs.

Stereotypes, generalizations, poor logic, and ignorance. All in one post!

[codex57]

Originally Posted by thereef510

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Japanese on the cutting edge of tech across the board throughout the 80s/90s/etc? I'm too young to know but they weren't just offering reliability and good dealer service right? They at least kept up with or tried to innovate with tech at least as much as the Germans? What is Genesis bringing to the table that we don't already have? it's still a knockoff product that's imitating the competition...

No. I'm old enough to have paid attention in the 80s and on. I learned to drive on my dad's mid-80s S-Class. If IP law was more advanced back then, they might have been sued outta existence. The Japanese were copying styles WAY more than the Koreans are now. Not as much as the Chinese are doing. The Chinese are straight up cloning. But, it was very clear the Japanese were "inspired" by the Euros and I don't think they were really hiding it.

Tech evolved a LOT more slowly back then. Leather automatically made you a luxury vehicle. Airbags were cutting edge tech. My 1995.5 Jeep Cherokee was actually an half year model because it came with a driver's side airbag whereas the 1995 did not. I mean, the Germans had more tech, but by today's standard, not really. Reliability was HUGE back then. Now, pretty much any car can run to 100,000 miles easy provided you do basic maintenance. The Japanese could do 100,000 if you refused to do basic maintenance. They went with reliability because that's what let them stand out. That's why Lexus has the rep it does.

The Germans don't have that rep (except maybe initially right from the factory) for a reason. The Japanese do. I had an e46. I opened the moonroof 3 times. It broke on the 2nd time. The 3rd time was just to check if it worked. It ate window regulators like candy. I loved that car for many reasons, but German reliability wasn't one of those reasons. Now it's about electronics. I sold my X3 after 2 years in part because the infotainment drove us nuts. I'm hoping iDrive 7 has enough updates to be tolerable if combined with Apple CarPlay. I know it'll still suck compared to my Tesla, but at least it'll be a million times more comfortable.

There's nothing wrong with the Koreans copying the Japanese playbook. It may not be super innovative, but they're catching up. They don't have the money to be super innovative. They just want to play in the game. Becoming the star comes later.

Lexus may be boring, but it sells in huge numbers because a lot of people want their version of luxury. It's the kind of luxury Cadillac and Lincoln used to be known for before the American companies turned to crap. Toyota is huge now. Nothing wrong with trying to be the next Toyota. I love German cars, but I know full well they've got their warts. A Lexus has incredible resale value for a reason. A BMW doesn't for the same reason.

[Auricom]

Recent MT summary says it all -

"2019 Genesis G70 Long Term Test Update: Dealing With the Dealer Experience

Genesis may be a luxury brand, but many customers still have to go to Hyundai dealerships for service." - Dec 3, 2020

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/gene...date-7-review/

"Genesis is an offshoot of Hyundai Motor, and Hyundai dealers wanted to get Genesis franchises, as well, just like Toyota dealers did with Lexus.

Problem is, Hyundai dealers rank below the industry average among mainstream brands in the JD Power Customer Satisfaction Index. Plus, Hyundai dealers were resistant to spending millions of dollars on a shiny retailing palace for an uncertain return.

Add in numerous states' arcane and often conflicting franchising laws regarding new dealerships, and it's not the greatest starting point for a new brand..."

[VTENGR]

I think the major difference between what you will get with an X5 and GV80 is the driving experience. There are a lot of ppl who just want to get to A to B in a luxurious cabin (stereotypical Lexus buyer). I think Genesis is targeting that market. BMW has built their niche for buyers who still like to drive and get the hair standing on the arms and neck when they hear a throaty exhaust or accelerate quickly down an onramp or passing traffic, or country back roads. Those ppl will never buy a Genesis GV80 b/c it isn't that car. This car is competing with the GX460 crowd, IMO.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by teefive

Stereotypes, generalizations, poor logic, and ignorance. All in one post!

Asian knock off junk. Great stuff for the fake Rolex/LV purse crowd. There is no comparison between the Korean crap and BMW.