10-27-2020, 08:35 AM | #1 |
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Safety X5 SAGA will not go into neutral for tow
Folks,
This post is for educational purpose, as I know someone will be in my situation especially with cars being driven less during these times. More importantly what I learned about the G series BMWs...also some venting. This problem started yesterday afternoon when the X5 would not start. Luckily the car was parked in my driveway so i was able to deal with this SAGA from my home and not stranded on the road. The vehicle ignition and electronics start but the starter engine does not crank. Talked to BMW assist and sent the car data over the SOS line, BMW tech confirmed the battery is fine and the problem is with the readiness module. As per my discussion with the tech, the readiness module recognizes the key, does a check to wake up all systems then authorizes the startup. In my case this module is not giving the "ok" so no startup sequence. By yesterday 5:00 PM EST, the tech tells me the car will require a tow to dealership and specifically a dolly/lojack is needed to get the car as the car on the flatbed as it will not go into neutral. First tow truck "flatbed" shows up at 6:30 PM, he does not have a dolly or a lojack. We get on the phone again with BMW assist and a new master tech confirms the car can not be moved without the dolly. The tow truck leaves and BMW assist apologizes and says they will ensure the proper truck with dolly will be at my location by 8:30 PM. By that time I realized the issue of transmission going into neutral is a big hassle to say the least and started my research on the forum and going through the catalog in detail. Reference links below: https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730725 links to ITS were closed by BMW - this case was a software update that bricked the car and wont go into neutral. Reference PDF for forcing into neutral - requires special tool Ref BMW Schmiedmann Specialist video on topic with good info - this is as applied to F series tried this and did not work on my G05 X5 Video F30 go into neutral using 5m allen I also learned from talking to BMW Master tech is that BMW decided to disable the go into Neutral soft function for all G series X5 and X7, i am unsure about the 3/5. The only option is following the PDF option aka "hard option" going under the car and having the tool to do that work. So should BMW owners now buy tools and doing that procedure in the middle of the road....??? Second tow truck "flatbed" shows up at 9:30 PM, he does not have a dolly or a lojack again! We get on the phone again with BMW assist and they apologize again. I spend 30 min with them on the phone and I get the deepest apologies and they promise a tow truck will be at my house with the dolly by 7:30 AM-8 AM. Its 9:30 AM the following day and I just got off the phone with BMW assist again, no tow truck and still waiting...........they promised a follow up call in 15 min and that already passed. Called my local dealership and talked to my rep that I have dealt with for over 18 year, he confirmed my research and told me to be patient and apologized on behalf of BMW. Our Cars not being able to be placed in Neutral and pushed to safety is a MAJOR hazard and create liability . I do not understand why BMW is putting its customers and drivers in a position of liability and increased risk. Vehicle should be placed in neutral in case of emergency...imagine this happened on a highway in the middle of the night, enough said. I will update you all on my story soon. 9:40 AM - Assist just called saying another company should be onsite within 30 min. We shall see. 9:50 Am - Towing company just called me to confirm pickup, they only have a flatbed no proper equipment. Dispatcher said they will cancel as they do not have a dolly. It seems a middle company called "Urgently" is the go in between BMW assist and the tow truck companies. Urgently is not specifying dollies and that's where the communication failure is happening. Poor integration and communication. Also towing company rep said you actually need 2 trucks at the same time: A recker to use its dollies and a flatbed to place it on the bed for transportation. If this is true this complicates things even further. "Tire sliders" are not an acceptable tool as high probability of damage. 11:10 AM - BMW Assist call with BMW tech. They confirmed 2 trucks are needed to pull this through. Rescheduling for this afternoon, this would be the 4th tow truck(s). its now a full misery/comedy show. Last edited by e90_2_f80; 10-27-2020 at 02:01 PM.. Reason: minor edits and updates |
10-27-2020, 08:44 AM | #2 |
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Same issue with X7 when failed OTA update bricked this owners vehicle:
FYI: Software update failure bricks your car https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730239 Disappointing when this happens. Keep us posted.
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10-27-2020, 10:43 AM | #3 |
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When the entire center console was stolen in my F31, they put the rear end up in the air and put the front wheels on dollies to tow it out. A flat bed couldn't get down my driveway and it was the easiest way for the driver to get it out. Without the electronic shifter, you're pretty much dead in the water as well.
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10-27-2020, 10:51 AM | #4 |
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Why wouldn’t your dealer send out one of their mechanics to assist in the towing? Wouldn’t a BMW trained mechanic bring the required tools or be the best option to assist a road side issue? This would be frustrating.
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10-27-2020, 10:59 AM | #5 | |
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This was my request from my dealer this morning. They said they don't do this anymore especially with COVID situation. You know at this rate, I could get dollies myself, rent a UHaul carrier, winch it using the Land Cruiser and Tow it with to the dealer myself . Maybe this is what I will do... |
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10-27-2020, 12:42 PM | #6 |
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Apparently there's 18 bolts that need to come out to remove a cover, and then a "special tool" used to engage neutral. (Something like that anyhow)
When I had to have mine towed it was a similar ordeal where the first guy couldn't do it, second guy was "authorized" by the dealership to use "skates" and drag it onto the flatbed, he had a heck of a time doing it because with the tow hook being to one side the car won't pull straight onto the ramp. |
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10-27-2020, 12:59 PM | #7 |
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Update 12:45 PM to 2:00 PM- Tow trucks showed up, a recker and a flatbed. It took them over 1:15 minutes to pull it out of the garage and then loaded it to the flatbed. It was nerve racking as the steering was off center but the saga is done and now off to the dealership for the full diagnosis and repair.
This whole debacle is just nuts! it took 22 hours and 4 towing companies to get this correct. Stay safe and I hope you don't end up in my situation. Last edited by e90_2_f80; 10-27-2020 at 01:01 PM.. Reason: added time |
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10-27-2020, 07:15 PM | #8 |
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Some places in Europe have a very neat vehicle to 'extract' vehicles for towing. Lots of narrow streets and small spaces seem to have made that a useful proposition. wouldn't help in getting it out of a typical garage, but there may be one designed for that purpose, too.
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10-27-2020, 08:30 PM | #9 |
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I think this post is the final nail for me, gonna let my dealer know I wont be getting a 45e. I was pretty excited to get this vehicle after all my research, but this inability to it in neutral for towing or moving is strange and not something I’m willing to deal with especially with BMWs less than stellar reliability (but great driving experience).
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10-27-2020, 09:50 PM | #10 |
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I don't think BMW is alone in this situation. Modern vehicles want reliable power to function and many of them are now using some electronics in their transmissions. Normally, electronics are pretty reliable, but they do need power to do their thing. We're long gone from totally mechanical vehicles.
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10-28-2020, 02:06 AM | #12 | |
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10-28-2020, 11:26 AM | #13 | |
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Edit: Added more qualifiers - On top of having to have your car towed - how many times is it because the car is completely dead electronically and how many times does that happen when you don't have access to the front of the hood. For this issue to become an inconvenience to the X5 owner, your car has to be completely dead and situated such that you don't have access to the battery. Those variable just lower the probability of it ever being an issue for you. Last edited by VTENGR; 10-28-2020 at 11:31 AM.. |
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10-28-2020, 01:07 PM | #14 | ||
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Not sure what access to the hood has to do with anything (main battery is at the back under electric hatch lock and the inaccessible mechanical transmission unlock being discussed is under the centre of the car); I guess your point is you can try to power the car from the hood externally if the issue is solely a dead battery, fair enough I guess. Bottom line is that this is a truly idiotic and dangerous design decision by BMW and even my BMW dealer's service manager (the guy solely responsible for me still driving a BMW) thinks so, but is not allowed to use my blunt wording. You simply do not a) make almost everything by wire, b) put in 43+ CPUs and a couple of kilometres of wiring in c) a software technology showcase car, and d) make it nearly impossible and possibly dangerous to tow when the electronics fail in some unpredictable way in the real world. You just don't. It is truly idiotic.
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10-28-2020, 01:13 PM | #15 | |
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10-28-2020, 01:16 PM | #16 | ||
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10-28-2020, 01:52 PM | #17 |
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I am idly wondering how such an unquestionably idiotic design managed to make it into a production car. It not like this was an oversight or an accident, something as critical as a mechanical transmission unlock is not going to just slip under the radar of the many DFx (x=Serviceability here) reviews in a robust engineering process. So I don't think it was an accident or a result of an oversight, I think it was a "classic" misguided engineering trade off. Here is my best imagined guess how it went ...
The starting points are that a mechanical unlock in a powerful high torque AWD car is already a difficult issue and that all previous designs somehow routed a mechanical override inside the cabin (slot for a key). The inside-cabin design may come with significant mechanical complexity and increase in complexity is always a reduction in net reliability, perhaps to the point that, PROBABILISTICALLY, adding that complexity can obliterate the serviceability benefit. These decisions are very complicated and never perfect and so BMW (and many other serious engineering teams) use reliability simulation software to help with tradeoff decisions. I strongly suspect that's how that happened — the simulation said this approach was by far more net reliable in the overall design structure of the platform (that needed to support pure ICE AND hybrid PHEV-with-batteries drive trains). But here is the Achilles heel and why rational thinking is still necessary — the simulation is based on thousands to tens-of-thousands of assumptions and can be effectively "unstable" (random?) due to sensitivity to those assumptions. It's a quantitative and theoretically "objective" tool, but engineers still need to apply careful judgement to the tool's input assumptions and output results. So I am not letting the BMW engineering team off the hook, but it is interesting to analyze how design (and actually all) failure occurs.
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10-28-2020, 05:02 PM | #18 | |
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A. I have my family with me and we go on a day trip and this happens locally. No real biggie other than needing 2 tow trucks, and family stranded. Severity low. B. I take family on a camping trip or longer road trip. Now we are away from the metro area, does the area even have two tow trucks that can handle this job? This is the states, Texas, where the isolated empty spaces are everywhere. Family is stranded and isolated. Severity high. C. I take my family to the mountains for skiing/snowboarding. Now family stranded, isolated, cold, and highly doubtful theres 2 tow trucks for this job, if they can even get to us. Severity very high. Btw in the military I’ve had vehicles towed 5-6 times that I remember due to driving cross country for PCS moves. Thankfully my latest vehicle (Grand Cherokee) has a neutral gear button just for this occasion, but it still has to be put on a flatbed. The started died and the battery also died, eerily similar to the OPs situation. Just the need for a flat bed extended our wait to 3 hours on the side of the road. I tend to plan for the worst and hope for the best, but this issue fails that test. This isn't my only reason for choosing not to get 45e but the recalls, new year issues and now this, all contributed. I REALLY want this vehicle, but I’ll wait and see how things work out and maybe get the 2022 MY... if they fix this issue. |
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10-28-2020, 05:34 PM | #19 | |
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I ask because you can electronically unlock the transmission but you must be able to get it to attempt to start for it to work. Thought I would add where to find that information. There are a couple ways to do this and even if battery is dead you can do it from a jump box/source. Pages 141, 145, and I believe its 376 in the owners manual.
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10-28-2020, 05:54 PM | #20 |
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Update from my dealer today-
They received the car but they can not move it as the dealer does not have the special tool used to place the transmission in neutral. They will be getting the tool tomorrow AM and placing the car on a lift to reprogram it. They did read fault codes and it seems the car tried to do an OTA software update automatically overnight; it bricked itself. Do yourself a favor ASAP - make sure your software update OTA is disabled in settings. You can thank Bimmerpost and this community later! |
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10-28-2020, 05:56 PM | #21 | ||
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We tried the steps referenced in the manual as well as the videos and none worked. They even tried again at dealer today and it didn't work. |
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10-28-2020, 06:08 PM | #22 |
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Gotcha.
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