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      10-28-2020, 01:34 PM   #1
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summer tires in winter weather

i know this been asked, but cant find the threads... I've read in the past, people dont recommend pzero in the winter/snow and most people have a extra set for the winter.

Our issue is, we live in AZ (no snow) with summer pzeros, but we are planning a few weekend trips up north, where it does snow with freezing temps. We want to avoid getting a set of winter tires just to go on weekend trips up north.

What are our options? Should we avoid driving our car up there entirely? how bad are pzeros in the snow/freezing temps?

We are planning to replace our tires soon, what tires are recommended to avoid this situation? or "best of both world" tires that will work for us, all season? we have 21" staggered setup
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      10-28-2020, 01:35 PM   #2
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Rent a Yukon or Denali for those trips if you don't want a dedicated set. It will be cheaper than repairing your car and most likely cheaper than a dedicated set of wheels/tires. Summer tires in snow or on ice is asking for trouble. Even in temps below 40 degrees you will see diminished performance and lack of traction. In addition you're a safety risk to yourself, passengers and others on the road.
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      10-28-2020, 02:03 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Rent a Yukon or Denali for those trips if you don't want a dedicated set. It will be cheaper than repairing your car and most likely cheaper than a dedicated set of wheels/tires. Summer tires in snow or on ice is asking for trouble. Even in temps below 40 degrees you will see diminished performance and lack of traction. In addition you're a safety risk to yourself, passengers and others on the road.
thanks, we are well aware of the consequences; cost over repairing and safety risk. thats why we are asking the questions
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      10-28-2020, 02:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Rent a Yukon or Denali for those trips if you don't want a dedicated set. It will be cheaper than repairing your car and most likely cheaper than a dedicated set of wheels/tires. Summer tires in snow or on ice is asking for trouble. Even in temps below 40 degrees you will see diminished performance and lack of traction. In addition you're a safety risk to yourself, passengers and others on the road.
thanks, we are well aware of the consequences; cost over repairing and safety risk. thats why we are asking the questions
The answer given is fully applicable. Besides voiding warranty (and likely liability) on hard sidewall RFT summer performance tires when driven below 7C, summer performance tires are a death trap in the cold with even a little snow, ice, or moisture; not an exaggeration.

The problem is also that it seems all season choices for the 21" (741M) rims are between limited and non-existent.

So the practical choices under those constraints are a) another vehicle with better winter-tolerant tires) or b) proper winter wheels/tires for the X5.
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      10-28-2020, 02:48 PM   #5
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All Season tires are your solution. I am the same with traveling in the winter to Florida from PA. I don’t want to be driving on winter tires from North Carolina and around Florida for a month. AS tires were perfect and I got hit with snow,ice, and sleet coming home in Maryland to Pennsylvania. This was in my last X5 and I had 20” wheels with Pirelli Scorpion AS tires.
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      10-28-2020, 03:02 PM   #6
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On snow or ice, a summer tire is just terrible...
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      10-28-2020, 03:14 PM   #7
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I know I'm a rebel w/o a cause but it snowed in ATL a month or so after I got my car - 22" Conti PremiumContact 6 ... think it was probably about 3-4" of snow - major storm down here. Wife and I were able to navigate the surface streets just fine. I was quite impressed, actually, b/c there were definitely cars getting stuck but we just scooted right on by. Max speed however was about 30 mph.
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      10-28-2020, 03:19 PM   #8
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It all depends...throw a little hill into the equation, or need to stop in an emergency, and a summer tire on snow is a disaster waiting to happen. Take a turn a little fast, forgetaboutit.

I look at winter tires as cheap insurance. I also have a pretty good hill for my driveway, so even getting home, or leaving can be tricky in the winter without a good tire...not fun sliding into the street at the end of the driveway, or being stuck 500' from the home...let alone navigating the streets.
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      10-28-2020, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
I know I'm a rebel w/o a cause but it snowed in ATL a month or so after I got my car - 22" Conti PremiumContact 6 ... think it was probably about 3-4" of snow - major storm down here. Wife and I were able to navigate the surface streets just fine. I was quite impressed, actually, b/c there were definitely cars getting stuck but we just scooted right on by. Max speed however was about 30 mph.
The only reason for that is because your tires were basically brand new at the time of snow.
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      10-28-2020, 03:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
I know I'm a rebel w/o a cause but it snowed in ATL a month or so after I got my car - 22" Conti PremiumContact 6 ... think it was probably about 3-4" of snow - major storm down here. Wife and I were able to navigate the surface streets just fine. I was quite impressed, actually, b/c there were definitely cars getting stuck but we just scooted right on by. Max speed however was about 30 mph.
The only reason for that is because your tires were basically brand new at the time of snow.
Definitely the case... Probably had around 500-600 miles on the tires at the time.
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      10-29-2020, 09:01 AM   #11
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summer tires in winter is a big no, understood. lets not beat this dead horse


Quote:
Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
All Season tires are your solution. I am the same with traveling in the winter to Florida from PA. I don’t want to be driving on winter tires from North Carolina and around Florida for a month. AS tires were perfect and I got hit with snow,ice, and sleet coming home in Maryland to Pennsylvania. This was in my last X5 and I had 20” wheels with Pirelli Scorpion AS tires.
thanks, we'll look into getting some AS since we need tires soon. hope they have the size we are looking to get it. from comment above, 21" staggered is limited in options. also from what i've read, they are not the best in summer or winter, but does the job for both.


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Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
It all depends...throw a little hill into the equation, or need to stop in an emergency, and a summer tire on snow is a disaster waiting to happen. Take a turn a little fast, forgetaboutit.

I look at winter tires as cheap insurance. I also have a pretty good hill for my driveway, so even getting home, or leaving can be tricky in the winter without a good tire...not fun sliding into the street at the end of the driveway, or being stuck 500' from the home...let alone navigating the streets.
yeah, there will be hills, doesnt sound like we will be taking any risk with these summer tires...

not planning to get a winter set since it will be only for couple weekends out of the year. just doesnt make sense for us.
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      10-29-2020, 10:21 AM   #12
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That is the trade off with an All-Season... It means it is not optimal in any season. It is just good enough for all four. Considering your situation it may be good enough otherwise just rent an SUV for the weekend. Beat it up, give it back. Life goes on.
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      10-29-2020, 09:33 PM   #13
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Driving on summer compound tires in winter is dangerous and you can possibly damage the tires to the point of needing replacement. As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. This means the summer performance tires that provide predictable traction in warm to hot conditions will be found to be very challenging to drive in cold to freezing temperatures.

If ambient temperatures drop to near- or below-freezing, driving or rolling a vehicle equipped with summer performance tires risks the possibility of tread compound cracking. Tread compound cracking is a permanent condition that requires the tires to be replaced. The other condition that can be caused by running summer performance tires in cold temperatures is the possibility of chipping away the edges of the tread blocks.
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      10-30-2020, 08:20 AM   #14
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Second iconoclast's recommendation. While I may be wrong, I suspect you don't get a lot of "wintery" weather in your climate and 3 trips a year doesn't seem worth it IMHO - wouldn't make sense to pick up a pair of dedicated winter tires. You're in a performance-oriented SAV, so all-seasons wouldn't be as ideal as summer performance tires. You probably save yourself money in the long run just by renting another truck.

Don't even consider playing in wintery/freezing conditions with your 21's unless you have a death wish. I had an experience with such and RWD many years ago; Did a full 360 degrees on I-95. This was not because I was trying to chance it either as I got caught by surprise in a storm.

Last edited by JayInVa; 10-30-2020 at 08:29 AM..
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      10-30-2020, 09:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream54ing View Post
summer tires in winter is a big no, understood. lets not beat this dead horse




thanks, we'll look into getting some AS since we need tires soon. hope they have the size we are looking to get it. from comment above, 21" staggered is limited in options. also from what i've read, they are not the best in summer or winter, but does the job for both.




yeah, there will be hills, doesnt sound like we will be taking any risk with these summer tires...

not planning to get a winter set since it will be only for couple weekends out of the year. just doesnt make sense for us.


We did a couple trips up north last year with summers on. Zero issues, we just planned best we could and took it easy on the twisty going up and down. We planned around any sort of weather as well. Really depends on how far off normal trails you get, most highways are perfectly fine and with the AZ sun that road is hotter than you think. Just my thoughts.
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      10-30-2020, 10:17 AM   #16
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For many years... (growing up in FL). I was of the mindset that winter tires just had better "tread" for snow, but otherwise, they weren't very different.

So..... this is a legitimate question. I understand why the OP asked.

The difference also lies with the rubber compound, specifically, at what temperature the tires can effectively grip the pavement.

Summer tires don't reach their "grip potential" until about 65 degrees F. Under that, they are actually slipperier than driving in the rain...... even if the roads are bone dry.

I got here to Belgium with a set of summer tires (in the winter) and could literally light them up on the highway at 65mph if I floored the accelerator. Scary. Now..... 99% of the time, so long as you are driving safely? Yea..... you won't have much of an issue.... especially in a big, heavy, AWD vehicle. But.... that one time you need to stop quickly, or turn sharply to avoid hitting something...... you'll notice it then.

If it's just for occasional use, it is still worthwhile to invest in a set of all-seasons. They are safe to drive all year, but will provide a reasonable amount of safety in the winter. Even with moderate snow, the AWD will help too. But don't even try it with Summers.

If I were you..... I would look for a used set of OEM wheels that someone took off..... and a "slightly" used set of all-seasons to save more than 50% of the cost.. If they are only being used occasionally, they'll last for years. Keep them dry, and store them lying flat, so they don't get flat spots in them.

Edit:

Funny story, years ago.... I was driving my STI, and I had a set of Nitto Nt05s on it (best street legal rain tires on the planet btw). I had a track day, it was wet.... and they performed AMAZING. Driving home, we had a light snow, and subsequent freeze. Maybe 1/4 of an inch.

AWD Subaru? Oh..... I got this... I can make it home..... right? LOL.... I literally got stuck in a FLAT parking lot. I couldn't get over a 1-inch snow bump...... spinning (violently) all 4 tires.... and doing NOTHING... LOL

Last edited by Ninefourteener; 10-30-2020 at 10:27 AM..
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      10-30-2020, 11:04 AM   #17
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Accidents are called that for a reason...they are not planned. The best planning can create all sorts of problems that skilled driving may not help resolve.

I was in Germany many years ago. It was early winter. No snow on the ground, but it was above freezing, with a light mist. At the time, I had an added on external temperature gauge before they became fairly common in vehicles. I was coming home later in the afternoon...at the bottom of a hill, roads were just wet, as I went up the hill, the temperature dropped below freezing, the road turned to ice. On that trip, I must have seen at least a half-dozen vehicles that had slid off the road. I knew the road was likely to be freezing, and, with the mist, they could be icy. I made it home without incident, partly because of the tires, and partly because I was carefully paying attention, but it could have easily been a different end result. IOW, you can only be just so careful, having the right tools to help you along can make all of the difference. Sometimes, it's just plain luck.

I had a lot of luck earlier this year...I was starting to take off in my nearly brand-new Magni M24 Plus gyroplane. Hit the throttle to take off, had a stroke, don't remember a thing, but hit 115mph, drifted off the runway on the ground, hit a bump, rolled the thing for about 200M. Came out of it alive. Don't remember a thing until I woke up in the ER about 5-hours later. One should try to avoid needing luck. Preparing as best you can is the best chance you'll have.

Don't drive summer tires when it's cold out, or you may need a lot of luck. Accidents happen. The difference in grip is radical. In one of the videos I posted above, the stopping distance was many times further between the best winter tire and a summer one...to the tune of hundreds of feet. You never really know what the weather is going to present or the traffic or the road conditions.
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      10-30-2020, 12:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenac View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream54ing View Post
summer tires in winter is a big no, understood. lets not beat this dead horse




thanks, we'll look into getting some AS since we need tires soon. hope they have the size we are looking to get it. from comment above, 21" staggered is limited in options. also from what i've read, they are not the best in summer or winter, but does the job for both.




yeah, there will be hills, doesnt sound like we will be taking any risk with these summer tires...

not planning to get a winter set since it will be only for couple weekends out of the year. just doesnt make sense for us.


We did a couple trips up north last year with summers on. Zero issues, we just planned best we could and took it easy on the twisty going up and down. We planned around any sort of weather as well. Really depends on how far off normal trails you get, most highways are perfectly fine and with the AZ sun that road is hotter than you think. Just my thoughts.
What are you talking about? Are you saying you were fine in northern AZ or northern North America? I can see how maybe northern AZ might be ok on summer performance tires with planning, but if your "advice" is "drive summer tires in the winter in northern North America", that's simply dangerous and irresponsible advice. Where is the dislike button when you need it.

Actually, I take that back. Just looked up winter weather and temperatures in northern AZ and it is irresponsible to drive there in the winter with summer performance tires as well, planning or not.
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      10-30-2020, 01:22 PM   #19
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Yeah it snows in AZ or any part of AZ that has high elevation. VERY pretty due to the stark contrast of snow and desert landscape.

But if it's just a couple weekends a year, I'd just rent an appropriate vehicle and take out the insurance. Save the mileage on your car as well.

I'd probably switch to all seasons anyways if you're replacing tires, but still consider renting a car. People in Los Angeles do it all the time when doing the winter ski trips to the mountains out East.
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      10-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #20
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What are you talking about? Are you saying you were fine in northern AZ or northern North America? I can see how maybe northern AZ might be ok on summer performance tires with planning, but if your "advice" is "drive summer tires in the winter in northern North America", that's simply dangerous and irresponsible advice. Where is the dislike button when you need it.

Actually, I take that back. Just looked up winter weather and temperatures in northern AZ and it is irresponsible to drive there in the winter with summer performance tires as well, planning or not.
Should have said that yes from AZ to the North AZ Flagstaff and other areas. Like I said I haven't yet to have issues with the roads (clear roads is all I have drove on). When I went up last year I didn't have temp for tires so no data. But yes you can choose to go on a day with higher temps like I did. Would I drive in a blizzard nah. I know the range for my tires says 45 and above for the rated performance and lower you start the curve for loosing traction (and just like an oil thread there are tons of factors). I will note if I had a rear wheel drive only, I'd be thinking a bit harder on that as well.

Too be clear I gave a response to the OP based on experience physically driving there and back a few times, and information on how I made that choice. The OP can make choice to do what they wish as well and all opinions are fully welcome.
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      10-30-2020, 01:36 PM   #21
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Yeah it snows in AZ or any part of AZ that has high elevation. VERY pretty due to the stark contrast of snow and desert landscape.

But if it's just a couple weekends a year, I'd just rent an appropriate vehicle and take out the insurance. Save the mileage on your car as well.

I'd probably switch to all seasons anyways if you're replacing tires, but still consider renting a car. People in Los Angeles do it all the time when doing the winter ski trips to the mountains out East.
Any reason you take out insurance? I only ask because when I did a rental for a tip (needed a truck) I called my insurance they said state of AZ requires identical coverage for your rented vehicles? I took that as my current insurance covers my rental (they said yes) wondering if you know other wise? Curious here. Hope I didn't misunderstand and just got lucky!!!
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      10-30-2020, 01:49 PM   #22
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I normally don't unless I know I'm at higher risk for damage for whatever reason. Huge moving truck into San Francisco, heading into snow (parents had a cabin in the mountains and I've spun a Jeep with a/s tires on black ice out so I'm a little more skittish in snow), etc.

I'd rather just not have to worry about contacting my insurance (I'm generally protected with both my personal car insurance AND credit card which offers primary rental car insurance) and just handing a car back to the rental company. If it's just a couple weekends a year. If it's a couple weeks, then the cost rises enough that I'll just use my own insurance.
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