[jad03060]

Everything is fine until you get into an unusual and maybe emergency situation...an all-wheel drive vehicle might get you going because you're using all four wheels, but it will have no bearing on how well you can stop or maneuver if the traction is minimal.

Until you get into one of those situations, you may not appreciate the differences in tread shape and compounding.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by Tenac

Should have said that yes from AZ to the North AZ Flagstaff and other areas. Like I said I haven't yet to have issues with the roads (clear roads is all I have drove on). When I went up last year I didn't have temp for tires so no data. But yes you can choose to go on a day with higher temps like I did. Would I drive in a blizzard nah. I know the range for my tires says 45 and above for the rated performance and lower you start the curve for loosing traction (and just like an oil thread there are tons of factors). I will note if I had a rear wheel drive only, I'd be thinking a bit harder on that as well.

Too be clear I gave a response to the OP based on experience physically driving there and back a few times, and information on how I made that choice. The OP can make choice to do what they wish as well and all opinions are fully welcome.

Sorry, no. While all opinions are welcome when life, limb, property, and/or liberty are not on the line, opinions based on complete lack of understanding of the physical issues, regardless of whether anecdotally you "were fine" a couple of random times, are not on par with facts and informed "opinions".

Actual facts are that, even in dry weather, summer performance tires and, in particular, RFT tires specifically noted in OP's question will become hard, brittle, and will dangerously reduce traction at low temperatures even above freezing. They may even disintegrate under certain, granted unlucky and possibly unlikely, conditions. These are facts and not opinions because you can look up actual vendor warnings and actual physical testing data, quite regardless anecdotal "I was fine" opinion.

And even (and particularly) in northern AZ, are you going to say that the weather is super stable and predictable in the winter, and therefore snow, ice, and moisture in the cold can be completely managed with "planning" on a trip?

[iconoclast]

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

Sorry, no. While all opinions are welcome when life, limb, property, and/or liberty are not on the line, opinions based on complete lack of understanding of the physical issues, regardless of whether anecdotally you "were fine" a couple of random times, are not on par with facts and informed "opinions".

Actual facts are that, even in dry weather, summer performance tires and, in particular, RFT tires specifically noted in OP's question will become hard, brittle, and will dangerously reduce traction at low temperatures even above freezing. They may even disintegrate under certain, granted unlucky and possibly unlikely, conditions. These are facts and not opinions because you can look up actual vendor warnings and actual physical testing data, quite regardless anecdotal "I was fine" opinion.

And even (and particularly) in northern AZ, are you going to say that the weather is super stable and predictable in the winter, and therefore snow, ice, and moisture in the cold can be completely managed with "planning" on a trip?

We are obviously not going to find any sort of common ground here. I read your passion and understand. Yes I was fine is a fact, made if perfectly fine. It actually happened. And yes accidents also happen those too are factual experiences. I didn't say you are wrong, and not arguing with you. But since you asked a question I will respond. Simple answer is No, I use what I have for a resource and roll with it adapt as needed.

I have a trip to go from Prescott to the devils highway this weekend. I'm carrying luggage this run but others are driving higher end sports cars. Wish us the best and I think this one will be on you tube for all to watch. The lowest temp we should encounter is 41 so just below the mark, highs in 70s. Once again other can choose what they like just like you can.

[jad03060]

THere are places where they mandate winter tires. Then, you wouldn't have a choice. The hassle comes, especially in the USA, where we have the highest number of lawyers per capita, should you, on summer tires in the winter, get into an accident, liability could easily vastly exceed the cost of a set of winter tires, plus, the hassles involved, either to you, or your family, should someone get hurt in the situation. If you never had an accident, why would you buy insurance? Because you might...sort of depends on how risk adverse you are. Living where I do, I've pretty much always had winter tires for my vehicles and snow can be sporadic...sometimes a lot, sometimes, none for ages. But freeze/thaw situations especially in the evening night, can be tragic and easily overlooked until it's too late (black ice is a killer!).

[biterror]

Originally Posted by Ninefourteener

For many years... (growing up in FL). I was of the mindset that winter tires just had better "tread" for snow, but otherwise, they weren't very different.

An interesting video, imho:

[Fennario]

All-Season tires are mediocre at everything and you will still require chains for snow/ice.

All-Weather tires are a better compromise. Similar summer performance as All-Season but much better winter (triple peak rated/no chains required). Not as good as a winter tire.

Winter tires. Performance winter (Perrelli/Michelin/etc.) have better warm, dry and rain grip vs. dedicated winter but do not perform as well in deep snow and ice (Nokian/Blizzak). Studded tires provide the best snow and ice performance but are terrible on dry roads (illegal in some areas as well). Winter tires are optimized for cold/below freezing temperatures and perform poorly in warm weather (70+).

Summer tires. Great until temps drop into the low 50's after which they are trouble (freezing temps can also crack the rubber which requires immediate replacement of the tire/risk of blowout). Extremely dangerous on snow/ice.

Ideal: A set of 3 season/summer and dedicated winter (performance, standard, or studded depending on needs)

[dream54ing]

Originally Posted by Tenac

We are obviously not going to find any sort of common ground here. I read your passion and understand. Yes I was fine is a fact, made if perfectly fine. It actually happened. And yes accidents also happen those too are factual experiences. I didn't say you are wrong, and not arguing with you. But since you asked a question I will respond. Simple answer is No, I use what I have for a resource and roll with it adapt as needed.

I have a trip to go from Prescott to the devils highway this weekend. I'm carrying luggage this run but others are driving higher end sports cars. Wish us the best and I think this one will be on you tube for all to watch. The lowest temp we should encounter is 41 so just below the mark, highs in 70s. Once again other can choose what they like just like you can.

after reading your post, probably should of research and been more specific on weather in northern AZ. i think we will be planning our trips with weather being in the low 50s during the day and lows in the 20s. of course we wouldnt be driving in the middle of the night during those lows.

Thanks Tenac for answering my question and not beating the dead horse ... knowing you've been there and experience actual condition helps tremendously. i dont think we will be driving in a blizzard as most think when ive asked the question.

Not dismissing the facts summer tires is a big "no" in winter weather, but these trips wont be in extreme cold weather.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by dream54ing

after reading your post, probably should of research and been more specific on weather in northern AZ. i think we will be planning our trips with weather being in the low 50s during the day and lows in the 20s. of course we wouldnt be driving in the middle of the night during those lows.

Thanks Tenac for answering my question and not beating the dead horse ... knowing you've been there and experience actual condition helps tremendously. i dont think we will be driving in a blizzard as most think when ive asked the question.

Not dismissing the facts summer tires is a big "no" in winter weather, but these trips wont be in extreme cold weather.

Good luck. Here is what Pirelli US warranty says (Pirelli Canada warranty is similar, but lists P Zero RFT explicitly affected by the temperature warranty voiding statement). I don't think it has ever been officially clear if storage (vs operation) below 45F/7C is part of the voiding condition or not, but since it's an expensive gray area, most assume storage below 45F/7C also voids warranty (if cracks develop).
.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dream54ing

... knowing you've been there and experience actual condition helps tremendously. i dont think we will be driving in a blizzard as most think when ive asked the question.

Not dismissing the facts summer tires is a big "no" in winter weather, but these trips wont be in extreme cold weather.

There are lots of things you probably shouldn't do but can get away with.

One time I got out my mega ladder and was about 3 rungs up, aiming for the steepest part of our roof to do some work. My neighbor, who was also our accountant and a partner at his firm, wandered over and asked what I was planning. I told him and he said, "so if you fall and the cover of tomorrow's paper says 'local man attempts simple roof repair, falls; in body cast for the next 6 months' would you regret not calling someone?" So I called a guy and it was like $300.

Which coincidentally would be about the same price as renting an SUV with cold weather tires. Wife and I have been doing that for Tahoe for 10 years. We look forward to it! We use national so we can pick any SUV we want for like $30/day.


So can you get away with summer tires in below freezing weather (which may damage the tires every night and/or kill you)? Probably.

Should a person smart enough to afford a new BMW X5 try to get away with it?

Probably not.

[jad03060]

FWIW, rubber compounds get harder pretty much from the time they are made. This is one reason why the tire industry highly suggests that you replace a tire at six years maximum, regardless of the tread depth. What you might get away with the first year, may no longer hold true the second, so don't be lured into complacency. There's a reason why they're called summer tires.

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Everything is fine until you get into an unusual and maybe emergency situation...an all-wheel drive vehicle might get you going because you're using all four wheels, but it will have no bearing on how well you can stop or maneuver if the traction is minimal.

Until you get into one of those situations, you may not appreciate the differences in tread shape and compounding.

Or as we said in Idaho, "Four-wheel drive and a locking axle will get you stuck in a worse place than two-wheel drive." Depends on how bold a driver you are, and tires do matter in that little bit of difference when recovering from boldness.

[iconoclast]

The thing most people think is that since they have 4WD or AWD they are invincible. 4WD/AWD has nothing to do with stopping... it's all about getting you going. Brakes and tires help you stop.

[jad03060]

All-wheel, and 4-wheel drive makes best advantage of the traction your TIRES have. Tires are much more critical when it comes to stopping and turning. All-wheel and 4-wheel drives do help in turns, but your overall traction can improve radically with the proper tires for the situation.

It's your call about what level of insurance you want in your vehicle.

In some places, you can get into lots of trouble, both financially and physically if you chose wrong. Have an accident with summer tires when it's cold or nasty, and you may end up liable. That can have some adverse results with insurance and the law, too.