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      03-08-2020, 08:18 AM   #89
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I've sat in the GV80 and have test driven the G70. The GV80 was a nice interior, but still not as nice as the X5. The G70 was a fantastic car to drive, but the 3 series is better in every way except comfort.

That being said, I like the competition. If anything, it forces the established luxury brands to continue to stay at the top of their game and continue innovating. Without competition from these up and comers you tend to see large luxury brands going stale, resting on their laurels.
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      03-08-2020, 08:21 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
My, don’t we love to justify buying our BMWs claiming that other vehicles have no soul. First of all, most buyers of SUVs wouldn't know “soul” if it smacked them in the face. Second of all, most reviews the past few years essentially say BMW has lost its way. Third of all, read reviews of the G70 with the sports package. It gets fantastic reviews from a enthusiast standpoint.
Its all relative - 'Soul' in an SUV is not the same as 'Soul' in a roadster or small sports sedan or hot hatch. If you go into it with eyes open, you realise that you are giving up some edge for the SUV packaging. It doesn't mean that one 2 tonne SUV drives the same as the next 2 tonne SUV.

Similarly, saying BMW has lost its way doesn't tell the whole story because the bottom line is, a G05 X5 still handles so much closer to what these journalists are barking on about than the equivalent GLE or Q8. Its just not as close as, say, the E70 was to their idea of an SUV with 'soul'.

Walk out into the world with under £90k in your pocket for a brand new full size SUV, and find one that has more 'soul' than the X5. Thats all that matters when you have your money on the line and want something that is being made today, not 10 years ago.
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      03-08-2020, 10:26 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
It will be interesting to see how things play out. Of course it is subjective but from the pictures it will be up there with the best looking exteriors in the market segment. I'm not a fan of the interior are at all but as your poll shown, it appeals to many people.
Right, the poll favored the interior of the GV80 over the others from a luxurious standpoint. For obvious reasons I did not include the X5 in the poll, but here they are side by side.
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      08-31-2020, 04:13 PM   #92
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the interior looks like they just ripped off/ spliced together a bunch of different car brands. the long A/C grill screams audi. The pop up style center console display exactly reminds me of the F15 generation. The middle console with the crystal esque shifter reminds me of the G05. Nevermind the outside screams Bentley.

But all if this is a moot point to a prospective buyer who's wowed by all of this stuff at a lower price point. My question is, how good is the fit and finish? I went on their builder configurator, there's like next to zero information about each option. Anyone seen one of these things up close yet?
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      08-31-2020, 05:35 PM   #93
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From those early review videos, I think Genesis is trying really hard to bring the fight to the German mfg. Will I buy a GV80 today? Probably not, I have my G05 m50i. I am enjoying it's monstrous power; but In 10yrs, I would be tempting to try a Genesis. Why not? I came from a Hyundai Santa Fe (yes, big jump), but the Santa Fe in its 10yr service for me, brought me 0 issues whatsoever. Reliability wise, I wouldn't be surprised if my shinny BMW falls short of my Hyundai.
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      08-31-2020, 09:12 PM   #94
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Something to keep in perspective with this GV80 is that every reviewer right now is only showing the top level 3.5 Prestige trim. To Genesis's credit, and something BMW could take pointers on, they've only sent out really well spec'd models to get that hype factor.

The downside of this will be price competition. While a top spec Palisade/Telluride hits the mid-40s price, which is pretty palatable for a non-lux premium SUV, the GV80 top spec will be north of $72K+. Add in the lack of incentives early and the dealer mark-ups, and I don't think sales are going to be great. After current market discounts, you can get a well spec'd X5 or GLE for around that price.

I also doubt many people are going to shell out $50K for a base model 4 cylinder in a 5000+ pound vehicle without leather or a lot of other tech goodies when you can save $5K and pick up a loaded Palisade/Tellluride.
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      08-31-2020, 09:20 PM   #95
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Anyone who buys this thing will have to taken on the burden of becoming a salesman themselves to every wary friend and family member who'd question why on earth anyone would spend 72k on a Kia. I dont think I'd have the energy in my life to do all that...
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      08-31-2020, 09:28 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHARMAATL View Post
Something to keep in perspective with this GV80 is that every reviewer right now is only showing the top level 3.5 Prestige trim. To Genesis's credit, and something BMW could take pointers on, they've only sent out really well spec'd models to get that hype factor.

The downside of this will be price competition. While a top spec Palisade/Telluride hits the mid-40s price, which is pretty palatable for a non-lux premium SUV, the GV80 top spec will be north of $72K+. Add in the lack of incentives early and the dealer mark-ups, and I don't think sales are going to be great. After current market discounts, you can get a well spec'd X5 or GLE for around that price.

I also doubt many people are going to shell out $50K for a base model 4 cylinder in a 5000+ pound vehicle without leather or a lot of other tech goodies when you can save $5K and pick up a loaded Palisade/Tellluride.
I'm wondering though how many people actually pay attention to things like incentives, dealer discounts, etc. I'm assuming the vast majority of consumers pay at or near MSRP for cars as a result of lack of knowledge/research. And simply comparing MSRP to MSRP, the Genesis APPEARS to be the cheaper but "equivalent" option.
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      08-31-2020, 09:29 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by SHARMAATL View Post
Something to keep in perspective with this GV80 is that every reviewer right now is only showing the top level 3.5 Prestige trim. To Genesis's credit, and something BMW could take pointers on, they've only sent out really well spec'd models to get that hype factor.

The downside of this will be price competition. While a top spec Palisade/Telluride hits the mid-40s price, which is pretty palatable for a non-lux premium SUV, the GV80 top spec will be north of $72K+. Add in the lack of incentives early and the dealer mark-ups, and I don't think sales are going to be great. After current market discounts, you can get a well spec'd X5 or GLE for around that price.

I also doubt many people are going to shell out $50K for a base model 4 cylinder in a 5000+ pound vehicle without leather or a lot of other tech goodies when you can save $5K and pick up a loaded Palisade/Tellluride.
You'd be surprised at how many GLE 350's with the 4-bangers that MB sells/leases, however they also have the brand prestige to do so and get away with it (aka buy it for the badge), while Genesis doesn't.
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      08-31-2020, 10:19 PM   #98
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You'd be surprised at how many GLE 350's with the 4-bangers that MB sells/leases, however they also have the brand prestige to do so and get away with it (aka buy it for the badge), while Genesis doesn't.
I really think this is a move by the Koreans to take on the Japanese, not the Germans. Lexus and Acura (Infiniti is all but dead) arent anywhere close to the level of technology or frankly, refinement that the germans offer. But Lexus and to a lesser degree Acura, have built a reputation of having rock solid, reliable vehicles. So someone who wants to upgrade to a luxury brand but have been used to buying their cars outright and keeping them for a while have been buying Japanese. Hyundai is offering a very very competitive warranty to convince buyers that 'hey we are luxurious too but cheaper than all the other brands, AND we're reliable so try us'. This is very much like the first LS400 taking on the S class, which was *the* standard bearer. The LS400 was cheaper, well built and reliable giving some buyers pause and then establishing Lexus as a major player. I seriously doubt neither the Koreans nor the Germans spend very much time thinking about each other lol.
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      09-01-2020, 02:31 AM   #99
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Very nice interior indeed! Still curious where that gear selector (aka PRND lever) went.

Call me special, but one of the first criteria that knock a car from the list of models I am considering to buy is the shape of its front and tail lights. While the designers were probably proud to have found a design that makes the GV80 "stand out", I do not like that the lights are split in half by that thin strip of metal that runs across them.

Same thing for Volvo SUVs (don't like their tail lights), nearly all Bangle-era BMWs (don't like the shapes of their lights) and the recent Porsches (not falling in love with their four-dot front lights).

So, big thanks to Marty for sharing the interior pictures - since I start judging a car by its cover/lights, I guess I never would have been keen enough to take a peek inside a GV80, yet am now impressed by its interior qualities.
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      09-01-2020, 06:56 AM   #100
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I really think this is a move by the Koreans to take on the Japanese, not the Germans. Lexus and Acura (Infiniti is all but dead) arent anywhere close to the level of technology or frankly, refinement that the germans offer. But Lexus and to a lesser degree Acura, have built a reputation of having rock solid, reliable vehicles. So someone who wants to upgrade to a luxury brand but have been used to buying their cars outright and keeping them for a while have been buying Japanese. Hyundai is offering a very very competitive warranty to convince buyers that 'hey we are luxurious too but cheaper than all the other brands, AND we're reliable so try us'. This is very much like the first LS400 taking on the S class, which was *the* standard bearer. The LS400 was cheaper, well built and reliable giving some buyers pause and then establishing Lexus as a major player. I seriously doubt neither the Koreans nor the Germans spend very much time thinking about each other lol.
I used to be very active on the Genesis forums and established some contacts inside Genesis USA. They are definitely gunning for the Germans and trying to develop a product equal to the top of the class. They are off to a great start with the G70, GV80 and the G80 although of course are not quite there yet. They very well could be product-wise in the fairly near future but I would imagine that will depend on how well these first models are received.

What is hurting them, and will continue to do so for the near future, is the dealer network. Since almost all Genesis dealerships are located inside a Hyundai dealer, the luxury dealership experience just doesn't exist. Genesis is trying to get dealers to build stand alone facilities but is not gaining much traction. They were providing incentives for dealers to do so but that didn't sit well with some and a dealership group filed a lawsuit last month to stop that program.

Obviously the other negative factor is they don't have a brand history yet and the reputation that do have is as a more expensive Hyundai/Kia. While that is totally not the case as one could argue the new models are more German than Korean, it will take many years to change that perception.

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in five years or so and see how things played out.
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      09-01-2020, 08:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
I used to be very active on the Genesis forums and established some contacts inside Genesis USA. They are definitely gunning for the Germans and trying to develop a product equal to the top of the class. They are off to a great start with the G70, GV80 and the G80 although of course are not quite there yet. They very well could be product-wise in the fairly near future but I would imagine that will depend on how well these first models are received.

What is hurting them, and will continue to do so for the near future, is the dealer network. Since almost all Genesis dealerships are located inside a Hyundai dealer, the luxury dealership experience just doesn't exist. Genesis is trying to get dealers to build stand alone facilities but is not gaining much traction. They were providing incentives for dealers to do so but that didn't sit well with some and a dealership group filed a lawsuit last month to stop that program.

Obviously the other negative factor is they don't have a brand history yet and the reputation that do have is as a more expensive Hyundai/Kia. While that is totally not the case as one could argue the new models are more German than Korean, it will take many years to change that perception.

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in five years or so and see how things played out.
I think your point about the dealer network is spot on. Take Lexus for example - Lexus does a very good job of differentiating that brand with Toyota. Lexus would not be anywhere near as popular if you had to walk by a Toyota Corolla to buy your LS500. Even just getting your car serviced is a huge contrast. My wife used to drive an IS - the Lexus dealers around here have top notch service departments. Continental breakfast, lounge with leather seats, TVs, business center, etc. We had to take her's into Toyota for service one time and their service department was like waiting at the DMV to get your license. Plastic chairs, only source of water was from a water fountain, etc. It was just a remarkable difference. So I can totally see how someone spending $70+k for a Genesis would not be impressed by having to drive it a Hyundai dealership to get serviced. For Genesis to succeed as a luxury brand, they need to separate themselves from their budget brand.
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      09-01-2020, 08:39 AM   #102
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I think your point about the dealer network is spot on. Take Lexus for example - Lexus does a very good job of differentiating that brand with Toyota. Lexus would not be anywhere near as popular if you had to walk by a Toyota Corolla to buy your LS500. Even just getting your car serviced is a huge contrast. My wife used to drive an IS - the Lexus dealers around here have top notch service departments. Continental breakfast, lounge with leather seats, TVs, business center, etc. We had to take her's into Toyota for service one time and their service department was like waiting at the DMV to get your license. Plastic chairs, only source of water was from a water fountain, etc. It was just a remarkable difference. So I can totally see how someone spending $70+k for a Genesis would not be impressed by having to drive it a Hyundai dealership to get serviced. For Genesis to succeed as a luxury brand, they need to separate themselves from their budget brand.
Right, same thing with Mini, BMW made dealerships build a new dedicated building and if you didn't, you didn't get the brand. I was in Florida this past winter, my wife and I test drove just about everything under the sun that looked like an SUV. Our worst experience, by far, was at the KIA dealership. The visit lasted 15 min before we walked out on them. Never got to even see the Telluride but even if we did and we liked it, I would never want to deal with them. The strangest visit was to the Land Rover dealership, we walked in to what looked like an art museum, not a human to be seen till eventually one walked out, offered us a drink (no not that kind) and we had a civil conversation where he knew what I was driving and knew the BMW brand and could intelligently talk about it.

Sure, all this is pre purchase and some brings up your biases but it comes down to what makes you happy, feel good and confident in the brand and it starts with first impressions. If the only experience I had with BMW was with my local dealer, I wouldn't own one but fortunately there are some very nice BMW dealerships that we've been to and I continue to go to even if they are three hours from me.

By the way, the GV80's steering wheel, whats up with that? Makes me feel old just looking at it.
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      09-01-2020, 10:13 AM   #103
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If they are going after the germans, then its a phenomenally foolhardy strategy. From what I've read, the german brands have geared their products towards leasing and structured incentives in that way. Kia has not: they want you to buy. So it ends up being about the same to lease a GV80 (due to lack of incentives) vs a mid tier X5. So why on earth would any prospective buyer buy into the brand?

Also brand name matters. Or else Rolls Royce and other such brands would be long extinct. There's no real difference between a walmart shirt and one from Nordstrom. They perform the same function except one is way more expensive and lets people know that you bought it because you can because you can afford it. You could even argue that maybe the Koreans will start offering some fantastic new technology feature that you can't get in another brand, but I don't think that's true anymore since you can get all of this stuff across many brands for the most part. So then what do you have? A knock off amalgam of multiple brands at a cheaper price. why would that cause any of us to switch over?
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      09-01-2020, 11:44 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thereef510 View Post
If they are going after the germans, then its a phenomenally foolhardy strategy. From what I've read, the german brands have geared their products towards leasing and structured incentives in that way. Kia has not: they want you to buy. So it ends up being about the same to lease a GV80 (due to lack of incentives) vs a mid tier X5. So why on earth would any prospective buyer buy into the brand?

Also brand name matters. Or else Rolls Royce and other such brands would be long extinct. There's no real difference between a walmart shirt and one from Nordstrom. They perform the same function except one is way more expensive and lets people know that you bought it because you can because you can afford it. You could even argue that maybe the Koreans will start offering some fantastic new technology feature that you can't get in another brand, but I don't think that's true anymore since you can get all of this stuff across many brands for the most part. So then what do you have? A knock off amalgam of multiple brands at a cheaper price. why would that cause any of us to switch over?
I think they go after the Germans because that's the benchmark. You go after the best. As far as pricing goes, most consumers are unaware of incentives, and don't typically go after large discounts. So their target market is broadened to 1) people who are overpaying for their German luxury cars and 2) people who are on the fence of luxury car ownership, don't understand incentives and leasing, and see the lower MSRP as a point of entry.

My guess is once Genesis fully penetrates the luxury car market and takes market share, their prices will also go up and they will also begin to adopt a similar incentive system to what the Germans offer.

From here I see two paths forward:
1) They go blow for blow with the Germans, which means they refresh their product cycles frequently and with updated technology, and as such they price themselves and structure their business model similarly once they become a major player
2) They go the route of JDM products which don't offer many models in direct comparison with the Germans and don't refresh their models often or with the latest technology, and offer those at lower price points as a pseudo-luxury brand. Models which are direct comparison are on par with German pricing. (I take the example of the Lexus IS. It's seen as a low cost option in comparison to the 3 series, however when you actually compare the equivalent IS with the 3 series, their pricing is very similar).
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      09-02-2020, 05:42 AM   #105
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Meh. Grill is horrible, steering wheel is bloated, rotary drive selector is a joke, interior looks outdated already, 22 inch rims with tires that don’t fill the wheel wells, ugly. Mirror for back seat passengers and powered shades, cool. Overall not impressed at any price offering.
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      09-02-2020, 06:08 AM   #106
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Just looks like a nasty Bentayga/Audi rip off. May suit the US market but would flop in Europe.
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      09-02-2020, 08:39 AM   #107
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The early reviews on youtube, albeit without driving the vehicle, have been overwhelmingly positive. I'm holding out judgement until Genesis releases it for driving reviews.
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      10-25-2020, 07:26 AM   #108
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First official USA drive review on youtube:


Is anyone waiting to drive the GV80 right now before pulling the trigger on the X5?
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      10-25-2020, 07:39 AM   #109
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Ugliest interior I have seen in a while
Agreed, epic fail on the steering wheel, bloated! The center console looks like an afterthought designed by a robot.
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      10-25-2020, 07:46 AM   #110
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Agreed, epic fail on the steering wheel, bloated! The center console looks like an afterthought designed by a robot.
LOL about the center console. That is one of the main issues I have with the car. Not sure what the Bentley designer was thinking when he signed off on that.
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