[Patton250]

Originally Posted by NickyC

The less screens the better, hated the digital gauge cluster in my G82 and the screens. Felt right back at home when I got another F8X. Not sure how people deal with all the touch screens and the nasty fingerprints/oil all over everything all the time. Looks gross.

1. Manually clean screen with soft cloth. Estimated time of work 12 seconds for thorough job
2. Use provided knob next to shifter. Avoid ever touching screen.

There you go.

[B58-M340iX]

ID7 was (and is) awesome with the buttons. The one thing that bothers me is I can't toggle A/C on or off without hitting the A/C menu button and then toggling a check box for it -- or, now hear me out, you could have a button for that

[cmyx6go]

Patton250 Do either of your BMWs have the new single screen that stretches from the driver’s side over the steering wheel all the way across the dash? I feel like we’re talking about two different things. You said in this thread that you don’t need to touch the screen in new BMWs to control radio or AC and only need the screen to change settings. I see the 2023 M5 still has the separate infotainment screen over the radio, AC, hot buttons etc. The new single screen does not have buttons for the AC. Everything is done through the screen.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

Patton250 Do either of your BMWs have the new single screen that stretches from the driver’s side over the steering wheel all the way across the dash? I feel like we’re talking about two different things. You said in this thread that you don’t need to touch the screen in new BMWs to control radio or AC and only need the screen to change settings. I see the 2023 M5 still has the separate infotainment screen over the radio, AC, hot buttons etc. The new single screen does not have buttons for the AC. Everything is done through the screen.

Maybe we are talking about two different things. It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something. Ask my wife and she’ll fill you in with the details.

I’m not aware of any vehicle where all those controls come from the touchscreen other than Tesla. So I’m totally open to being corrected. The current BMWs I have now are a 2023 M5 and a 2020 X3. I’ve also had a 2021 M3 and a 2022 M3. All of those have one large touchscreen above some other buttons that control the radio and the air conditioning. As I’m sure you probably know.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Maybe we are talking about two different things. It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something. Ask my wife and she’ll fill you in with the details.

I’m not aware of any vehicle where all those controls come from the touchscreen other than Tesla. So I’m totally open to being corrected. The current BMWs I have now are a 2023 M5 and a 2020 X3. I’ve also had a 2021 M3 and a 2022 M3. All of those have one large touchscreen above some other buttons that control the radio and the air conditioning. As I’m sure you probably know.

The dashboard and screen in my 2022 is the same as your M5. Although I preferred when I had analog gauges, I’m ok with the current set up. I was at the dealer this week and was talking about the new set up. No freakin buttons.

I had a feeling we were talking apples and oranges. Especially since I agree with everything you post in the Still want an EV thread which I refuse to get sucked into.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by chassis

Porsche is not going back to buttons for 2024 in the Cayenne. Most Cayenne functions in the center stack area are controlled by haptic buttons on the console or buried layers deep in the PCM menu via touchscreen.

The most egregious examples on the Cayenne are climate control settings that require 1. reaching for the touch screen and 2. flipping to a sub-menu to activate the desired setting. In the past this was done with one button, with immediate visual and physical accessibility.

Furthermore, the 2024 Cayenne, aka 9Y0.2, eliminated the Porsche-iconic left-of-steering-wheel "ignition" switch, in favor of a Tiguan-style start button. And they moved the center console-mounted gear select lever to a Bic-shaver tiny mode switch on the dash, same as the Taycan. Not many people on Rennlist like these changes.

Well, I guess I’ll be keeping my 2022.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

The dashboard and screen in my 2022 is the same as your M5. Although I preferred when I had analog gauges, I’m ok with the current set up. I was at the dealer this week and was talking about the new set up. No freakin buttons.

I had a feeling we were talking apples and oranges. Especially since I agree with everything you post in the Still want an EV thread which I refuse to get sucked into.

I’m going to the dealership today to pick up my M5. They are installing the M performance lowering kit and my new HRE wheels. I’m going earlier so I can check out some of the new cars. I will ask about what you are talking about so I can better understand.

As far as the do you still want an EV thread I think it’s a very informative and civil discussion with the exception of a couple of trolls that keep popping in there to stir up trouble. I put them both on my ignore list.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I use Waze.

Originally Posted by Patton250

I will ask about what you are talking about so I can better understand.

[Tejas1836]

At least she has buttons, I know how to work those.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You can’t look out the windshield and use your peripheral vision to see the touchscreen? What are you like 8‘11“ tall? Your head sticking out the sunroof?

This thread really sounds more like big brother stuff.

Here’s an idea. A novel idea. How about they continue with the same technology and all the rest of you guys who don’t like it you never use it? That would work also right? Even in a pre-touchscreen car, you still had to look down to find the knob for the stereo and adjust what radio frequency you wanted, right? Same thing with turning the heater air conditioning on. You had to look.

While YOU may be a capable driver, these things have to be engineered towards the lowest common denominator. Like George Carlin once said, “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” While you and I may be diligent and conscientious while driving, we probably represent a minority of the driving public.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by murderspice

While YOU may be a capable driver, these things have to be engineered towards the lowest common denominator. Like George Carlin once said, “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” While you and I may be diligent and conscientious while driving, we probably represent a minority of the driving public.

Well, in my 36 years of driving, I have yet to meet another driver that doesn’t think he or she is a superior driver and everyone else is a moron.

Having said that, are there poor drivers out there? Certainly. I drive 40,000+ miles a year. I see it every trip. Of course you and I might define poor driving ad two different things. I’m not sure. Either way this has nothing to do with the available technology in cars today. I stand by what I said earlier that is mobile phones are by far the number one distraction causing accidents in driving. Before mobile phones it was simple things like eating food and adjusting the radio station.

Please keep in mind just like other issues like the 1st and 2nd amendments I refused to give up the rights that I have simply because other people abuse them or screw them up. The same goes with new car technology. The same goes with pretty much everything. So I hope that you or others are not advocating, pulling touch screens out of future cars because of a small percentage of bozo drivers. Always remember you’re welcome to not use them and or look for alternatives cars that don’t have them if you wish.

[Efthreeoh]

I've just never understood the purpose of having little TV screen in an automobile. While all of my BMW are screenless I have driven a few loaners with iDrive and I just don't get the point. The user interface and the information available adds nothing to the driving experience. Being BMWs are supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, why do they have a screen in the first place, are not we supposed to look out the windshield and drive the UDM?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Well, in my 36 years of driving, I have yet to meet another driver that doesn’t think he or she is a superior driver and everyone else is a moron.

Having said that, are there poor drivers out there? Certainly. I drive 40,000+ miles a year. I see it every trip. Of course you and I might define poor driving ad two different things. I’m not sure. Either way this has nothing to do with the available technology in cars today. I stand by what I said earlier that is mobile phones are by far the number one distraction causing accidents in driving. Before mobile phones it was simple things like eating food and adjusting the radio station.

Please keep in mind just like other issues like the 1st and 2nd amendments I refused to give up the rights that I have simply because other people abuse them or screw them up. The same goes with new car technology. The same goes with pretty much everything. So I hope that you or others are not advocating, pulling touch screens out of future cars because of a small percentage of bozo drivers. Always remember you’re welcome to not use them and or look for alternatives cars that don’t have them if you wish.

I do that last part with my manual transmission 2022 Bronco; I just keep the screen off and I deleted the Android Auto app from my phone. I enjoy the truck much better now verses trying to constantly screw with the tech to make it work. I'd say not pulling the screen from the vehicle, but I know I'd honestly pay extra for a "Tech Delete" package to get more buttons back.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've just never understood the purpose of having little TV screen in an automobile. While all of my BMW are screenless I have driven a few loaners with iDrive and I just don't get the point. The user interface and the information available adds nothing to the driving experience. Being BMWs are supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, why do they have a screen in the first place, are not we supposed to look out the windshield and drive the UDM?

Honestly, I really love the screen for one reason and one reason only. Countermeasures. Specifically in this case Waze. I use it for GPS also BUT most importantly, I use it for financial protection against revenue generators.

On a sidenote, I don’t know how you guys would figure on programming all the different really awesome functions the car has without that screen. Interior light colors, light functions, M1 and M2 settings, etc. I’m not sure how you guys would accomplish that with just buttons.

[BobBMWX3]

My first accident over thirty years ago was reaching for a button to change the radio station. It was a physical button but due to the layout of the dashboard and other buttons, I had to look to adjust. Wound up hitting the rear of the stopped car in front of me.

This had a lot to do with me being an inexperienced driver, but also the poor configuration of the button interface. The point here is that either entry method could be good or bad depending on the design.

Physical buttons have had years of refinement. The buttons on the steering wheel are a great example of that. Cruise control on the stalk was had. Then it moved to the steering wheel, and it is a quick glance to set, change, etc.

There are many bad touchscreen implementations right now. That needs to improve, but I think they can. This will allow for cleaner interior designs, fewer parts, and easier maintenance.

I have found that I actually use all four of my input types. Sometimes I touch the screen. I will manual buttons others. I use gesture a lot for music. Occasionally, I will even use voice (great for Nav commands).

[cmyx6go]

I’m fine with the screen for settings but not for every day functionality. I’ll again go with my If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. If something is a one push of a button now, I don’t want to navigate through screens to get the same job done.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BobBMWX3

My first accident over thirty years ago was reaching for a button to change the radio station. It was a physical button but due to the layout of the dashboard and other buttons, I had to look to adjust. Wound up hitting the rear of the stopped car in front of me.

This had a lot to do with me being an inexperienced driver, but also the poor configuration of the button interface. The point here is that either entry method could be good or bad depending on the design.

Physical buttons have had years of refinement. The buttons on the steering wheel are a great example of that. Cruise control on the stalk was had. Then it moved to the steering wheel, and it is a quick glance to set, change, etc.

There are many bad touchscreen implementations right now. That needs to improve, but I think they can. This will allow for cleaner interior designs, fewer parts, and easier maintenance.

I have found that I actually use all four of my input types. Sometimes I touch the screen. I will manual buttons others. I use gesture a lot for music. Occasionally, I will even use voice (great for Nav commands).

I'll have to disagree with cruise control on the stalk of BMWs, completely intuitive; push forward to set or add speed, pull back to set slower speed, push down to turn off, push up to resume (before the E90...)

GM's stalk is not bad, push the end cap to set/add speed in 1 MPH increments, push toggle switch to reduce speed setting by 1 PMH increments, and brake to turn off. Buttons on the steering wheel take too much concentration off the road. IMO.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I’m fine with the screen for settings but not for every day functionality. I’ll again go with my If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. If something is a one push of a button now, I don’t want to navigate through screens to get the same job done.

I saw the type of screen you were talking about at the dealership yesterday and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don’t mind using a touchscreen to change major settings for the car like adding a cell phone or adjusting M1 and M2 settings. However, I always want to be able to control the radio and air conditioning as well as many other things like defrost with actual push buttons.

[PcarFan]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Well, in my 36 years of driving, I have yet to meet another driver that doesnÂ’t think he or she is a superior driver and everyone else is a moron.

I'm definitely not a superior driver to everyone else out there, but everyday I see a lot of people on the road that shouldn't be driving at all.
On the phone texting, eating, hugging the left lane doing well under the speed limit with no cars in front of them for miles and looking like they are sitting on their couch watching TV, changing lanes without even looking or signaling, etc, etc.

Ps; There was no need for you to apologize for your post yesterday, Patton250.
You didn't do anything wrong, if anything, I was the one that didn't understand that your comments weren't directed at me.
Reading a post sometimes sounds different than when people are talking face to face



I don't have anything against the new gadgets in automobiles, and I applaud the people that are able to use them effectively. It's just not for me. It's not because I'm older, it's just something that I never cared for.

One thing that drives me nuts is the cameras and parking sensors on these newer vehicles, they can be very annoying sometimes. The car starts beeping as soon as you put it in reverse or drive, and that's even before you start moving.
Now, my sons love it. Look at the screen and follow the lines they say. Yeah, no, I like to look at the mirrors and see where I'm going, I don't like to rely on the cameras

It's the same thing with EV's, I dont care for them, but they are the future of automobiles either I like it or not, and that's fine with me.
I'm not going to say that I will never own an EV because I don't know the future, but if I have the choice, I will still take an ICE vehicle over an EV at this point in my life.

[JustinHEMI]

I think my Mazda CX-50 nails the mix of buttons/screens.

My main gripe about my new M2 is it's all screen. I am glad they kept the controller, though, so there's at least something tactile.

[OriginalFake]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've just never understood the purpose of having little TV screen in an automobile. While all of my BMW are screenless I have driven a few loaners with iDrive and I just don't get the point. The user interface and the information available adds nothing to the driving experience. Being BMWs are supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, why do they have a screen in the first place, are not we supposed to look out the windshield and drive the UDM?

Because the Ultimate Driving Machine is a marketing slogan.

[cmyx6go]

PcarFan I don’t remember if you posted in the Polstar thread. Did you see the nonsense of doing away with the rear window and mounting a camera on the roof to feed into the rearview mirror? Someone shoot me if that’s the next fix on all autos.