[leightos]

so, having my 3rd issue w/ my BMX X5 45e in the last year. I've read up on the lemon laws (for Nevada) and it's 4 instances or 30 days in a year. Looks like I'll hit that mark on days w/ this last issue: thread here
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1807656&page=3

So I had the car fail on an update (in the shop last Aug for 10 days)
Then had the recall - that was in the shop 5 days but doesn't include 5 months without using the battery hybrid.
And now the issue from Wed night. The local BMW place still hasn't diagnosed the issue, but they say it's probably battery related.
We all know that battery issues can take weeks if not months to get parts and get fixed.
Look I don't want to get too far out on this before they give me the final word on the fix and parts. But looked up the lemon laws and it says you must meet the requirements but that you must also inform the manufacturer in writing of you intent to declare the car a lemon.

I called BMW Customer Care, and they actually said all they can do is have some agent call me and discuss - the lady on the phone said they can't actually use that term "lemon".

So I did a search online and got a few hits of where to send the letter, and I won't send it yet of course. But I'm going to prepare myself because this could take weeks to fix, and months to argue about the lemon law w/ BMW. Not sure if anyone has done this before.

Any comments I'd be glad to hear it.


cheers

[Berzerker]

If a BMW official uses the word lemon, all bets are off for them. They've called the car a lemon and you have legal grounds to invoke the law, so you're not going to get that out of them, period.

Talk to customer relations if you're considering invoking your right at the LL, but you should probably talk to a lawyer to understand the full breadth of the law for your state. Every state's Lemon Laws are different. GL!

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by leightos

so, having my 3rd issue w/ my BMX X5 45e in the last year. I've read up on the lemon laws (for Nevada) and it's 4 instances or 30 days in a year. Looks like I'll hit that mark on days w/ this last issue: thread here
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1807656&page=3

So I had the car fail on an update (in the shop last Aug for 10 days)
Then had the recall - that was in the shop 5 days but doesn't include 5 months without using the battery hybrid.
And now the issue from Wed night. The local BMW place still hasn't diagnosed the issue, but they say it's probably battery related.
We all know that battery issues can take weeks if not months to get parts and get fixed.
Look I don't want to get too far out on this before they give me the final word on the fix and parts. But looked up the lemon laws and it says you must meet the requirements but that you must also inform the manufacturer in writing of you intent to declare the car a lemon.

I called BMW Customer Care, and they actually said all they can do is have some agent call me and discuss - the lady on the phone said they can't actually use that term "lemon".

So I did a search online and got a few hits of where to send the letter, and I won't send it yet of course. But I'm going to prepare myself because this could take weeks to fix, and months to argue about the lemon law w/ BMW. Not sure if anyone has done this before.

Any comments I'd be glad to hear it.
ps... I still don't have a loaner (they're all out) and not a rental (they said they're waiting on Corp approval which was BS according to the lady on the phone today. I'm still waiting to hear from the Henderson BMW service manager who didn't return my calls today)

cheers

They are talking about it in this thread:

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...n#post29000110

[leightos]

So, yesterday I called Customer care, and they called me back today and were pretty helpful actually. After a few min of fact find and back n forth he just asked me what resolution I would like. And, assuming this will take 3-6 weeks, I told him I would do the like to just get a replacement. I love the car, and love having a hybrid, and I told him I heard of the buyback option.
Since we still don't know what's wrong w/ my car yet (they said today it might be a bad cell, but still don't know after 3 days) we're going to wait until next week, and then an exec level rep will review my case and follow up.

cheers

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by leightos

So, yesterday I called Customer care, and they called me back today and were pretty helpful actually. After a few min of fact find and back n forth he just asked me what resolution I would like. And, assuming this will take 3-6 weeks, I told him I would do the like to just get a replacement. I love the car, and love having a hybrid, and I told him I heard of the buyback option.
Since we still don't know what's wrong w/ my car yet (they said today it might be a bad cell, but still don't know after 3 days) we're going to wait until next week, and then an exec level rep will review my case and follow up.

cheers

Sounds like it'll work out, nice! Now's the chance to get into an M50i :P

[LarsOtium]

I had one of the first X5s back in 2001. Cannot remember specifics of problem, but it was an engine issue that was stumping BMW.

My dealer took the bull by the horns and got BMW to trade me into a new 2002 X5 at very favorable pricing.

I would start with my dealer and see what they can/are willing to do with BMW before I start involving Lemon Law and lawyer etc.

If you cannot get a satisfactory solution that way than by all means explore your state’s Lemon Law.

[leightos]

Originally Posted by LarsOtium

I had one of the first X5s back in 2001. Cannot remember specifics of problem, but it was an engine issue that was stumping BMW.

My dealer took the bull by the horns and got BMW to trade me into a new 2002 X5 at very favorable pricing.

I would start with my dealer and see what they can/are willing to do with BMW before I start involving Lemon Law and lawyer etc.

If you cannot get a satisfactory solution that way than by all means explore your state’s Lemon Law.

100% agree
From what I've read, BMW do NOT want this car declared a lemon. It seems they may have to pay me back all I paid (depends on resolution I guess) AND, they may never sell the car again. My trade-in value is still $65k acc to KBB. And I heard on this forum that most people can just stay in their same loan. I really like that coz I got the 0.9%.

Although I like Berzerker suggestion. But I'm retired now, a M50i may be a bit too much car for me now

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by leightos

So, yesterday I called Customer care, and they called me back today and were pretty helpful actually. After a few min of fact find and back n forth he just asked me what resolution I would like. And, assuming this will take 3-6 weeks, I told him I would do the like to just get a replacement. I love the car, and love having a hybrid, and I told him I heard of the buyback option.
Since we still don't know what's wrong w/ my car yet (they said today it might be a bad cell, but still don't know after 3 days) we're going to wait until next week, and then an exec level rep will review my case and follow up.

cheers

Good for you! I hope you get a quick and satisfactory resolution. Good luck...

[mnx5er]

Do not go the lemon route. Become good friends with your service manager. They can pull a lot of strings and get BMW to do a buyback if warranted. I've gone that route and it worked well. Sucks to have a messed up car.

[BobsM3Coupe]

Originally Posted by leightos

100% agree

Although I like Berzerker suggestion. But I'm retired now, a M50i may be a bit too much car for me now

Hogwash. Now that you're retired, you should have more time to enjoy the glorious twin turbo V8 that comes with the M50i. They are quickly becoming extinct.

[leightos]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

Hogwash. Now that you're retired, you should have more time to enjoy the glorious twin turbo V8 that comes with the M50i. They are quickly becoming extinct.

well, I'll never rule it out. I have noticed, in my searches online, there are good number of 2022 M50i still for sale. Almost no 2022 45e (mostly 2023). Who knows, maybe they'll offer me a good deal on a 2022 M50i that I couldn't turn down.

(Plus, the 2022s offered the Artic Grey which I like, seems that color is gone)

[Buck14]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

Hogwash. Now that you're retired, you should have more time to enjoy the glorious twin turbo V8 that comes with the M50i. They are quickly becoming extinct.

GET THE M50i!!!!

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by leightos

so, having my 3rd issue w/ my BMX X5 45e in the last year. I've read up on the lemon laws (for Nevada) and it's 4 instances or 30 days in a year. Looks like I'll hit that mark on days w/ this last issue: thread here
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...656&page=3

So I had the car fail on an update (in the shop last Aug for 10 days)
Then had the recall - that was in the shop 5 days but doesn't include 5 months without using the battery hybrid.
And now the issue from Wed night. The local BMW place still hasn't diagnosed the issue, but they say it's probably battery related.
We all know that battery issues can take weeks if not months to get parts and get fixed.
Look I don't want to get too far out on this before they give me the final word on the fix and parts. But looked up the lemon laws and it says you must meet the requirements but that you must also inform the manufacturer in writing of you intent to declare the car a lemon.

I called BMW Customer Care, and they actually said all they can do is have some agent call me and discuss - the lady on the phone said they can't actually use that term "lemon".

So I did a search online and got a few hits of where to send the letter, and I won't send it yet of course. But I'm going to prepare myself because this could take weeks to fix, and months to argue about the lemon law w/ BMW. Not sure if anyone has done this before.

Any comments I'd be glad to hear it.
ps... I still don't have a loaner (they're all out) and not a rental (they said they're waiting on Corp approval which was BS according to the lady on the phone today. I'm still waiting to hear from the Henderson BMW service manager who didn't return my calls today)

cheers

Been through this many times, Land Rover and all I can say is yes you can use lemon law be prepared for a long and lengthy process. What I do now when I start having problems with cars I go and trade it then I'm done with it

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by swainbmw

Been through this many times, Land Rover and all I can say is yes you can use lemon law be prepared for a long and lengthy process. What I do now when I start having problems with cars I go and trade it then I'm done with it

Do they give you a good/fair deal on your trade that is having problems?

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by Brigitte

Do they give you a good/fair deal on your trade that is having problems?

Lol I would say nothing

[leightos]

So earlier this a.m. I got a 2nd phone call from BMWNA, this time from the Exec Cust Serv Level. She was helpful, and since we still don't know what the cause is, and what the solution is, there is no movement (they've had the car since last Wed).

I got this from the SA via txt:

"Good afternoon, Tech is still working on dropping the entire HV battery from under the vehicle so we can test all the cells. We are getting an error for one in particular. At this point we are following BMWs direction as far as what we have to test and send them and all that. In all reality I probably won't have a real game plan for parts and ETA till Friday. Anything sooner I will let you know"

Which really doesn't help much. But it doesn't look good.

I meantioned to the BMWNA rep I wanted a replacement if this gets pushed out. She didn't reply with much.

I conferred w/ a local NV lawyer. He said, technically I'm outside the timeframe for a lemon law action because I passed the 1yr point. But maybe I can go that route via CA lemon laws because that's where it was purchased. He also mentioned there is that Fed law action too. He said he'd still fire off a letter once we know the timeframe for repair. But he suggested not tell BMWNA that I have a lawyer. They have incentives to get this resolved and we all know that to be true. [Plus it's still TBD what will happen w/ the car, BMWNA can't act until they know how long this will take]

In the meanwhile I'm being understanding and not saying much to show my hand to the dealer yet.

thanks for listening. cheers

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by leightos

So earlier this a.m. I got a 2nd phone call from BMWNA, this time from the Exec Cust Serv Level. She was helpful, and since we still don't know what the cause is, and what the solution is, there is no movement (they've had the car since last Wed).

I got this from the SA via txt:

"Good afternoon, Tech is still working on dropping the entire HV battery from under the vehicle so we can test all the cells. We are getting an error for one in particular. At this point we are following BMWs direction as far as what we have to test and send them and all that. In all reality I probably won't have a real game plan for parts and ETA till Friday. Anything sooner I will let you know"

Which really doesn't help much. But it doesn't look good.

I meantioned to the BMWNA rep I wanted a replacement if this gets pushed out. She didn't reply with much.

I conferred w/ a local NV lawyer. He said, technically I'm outside the timeframe for a lemon law action because I passed the 1yr point. But maybe I can go that route via CA lemon laws because that's where it was purchased. He also mentioned there is that Fed law action too. He said he'd still fire off a letter once we know the timeframe for repair. But he suggested not tell BMWNA that I have a lawyer. They have incentives to get this resolved and we all know that to be true. [Plus it's still TBD what will happen w/ the car, BMWNA can't act until they know how long this will take]

In the meanwhile I'm being understanding and not saying much to show my hand to the dealer yet.

thanks for listening. cheers

A quick google says NV's Lemon Law Statute of Limitations is 18 months from the point of sale, so you may want to double-check them on that.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by leightos

So earlier this a.m. I got a 2nd phone call from BMWNA, this time from the Exec Cust Serv Level. She was helpful, and since we still don't know what the cause is, and what the solution is, there is no movement (they've had the car since last Wed).

I got this from the SA via txt:

"Good afternoon, Tech is still working on dropping the entire HV battery from under the vehicle so we can test all the cells. We are getting an error for one in particular. At this point we are following BMWs direction as far as what we have to test and send them and all that. In all reality I probably won't have a real game plan for parts and ETA till Friday. Anything sooner I will let you know"

Which really doesn't help much. But it doesn't look good.

I meantioned to the BMWNA rep I wanted a replacement if this gets pushed out. She didn't reply with much.

I conferred w/ a local NV lawyer. He said, technically I'm outside the timeframe for a lemon law action because I passed the 1yr point. But maybe I can go that route via CA lemon laws because that's where it was purchased. He also mentioned there is that Fed law action too. He said he'd still fire off a letter once we know the timeframe for repair. But he suggested not tell BMWNA that I have a lawyer. They have incentives to get this resolved and we all know that to be true. [Plus it's still TBD what will happen w/ the car, BMWNA can't act until they know how long this will take]

In the meanwhile I'm being understanding and not saying much to show my hand to the dealer yet.

thanks for listening. cheers

Have you communicated with BMW about this defect in writing? I think even an email or text would be considered a communication in writing. It is the communication/report that should occur within 1 year. Buyer should take action/filing a claim no later than 18 months from delivery.

Nevada Revised Statutes:

NRS 597.610  Report of defect in motor vehicle; duty of manufacturer.  If a new motor vehicle does not conform to all of the manufacturer’s applicable express warranties and the buyer reports the nonconformity in writing to the manufacturer:

1.  Before the expiration of the manufacturer’s express warranties; or

2.  No later than 1 year after the date the motor vehicle is delivered to the original buyer,

Ê whichever occurs earlier, the manufacturer, its agent or its authorized dealer shall make such repairs as are necessary to conform the vehicle to the express warranties without regard to whether the repairs will be made after the expiration of the express warranty or the time described in subsection 2.

(Added to NRS by 1983, 610)

NRS 597.620  Submission of claim to manufacturer for replacement or refund according to designated procedure.  If the manufacturer has established or designated a procedure for settling disputes informally which substantially complies with the provisions of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 703, a buyer must first submit his or her claim for replacement of the motor vehicle or for refund of the purchase price under that procedure before bringing any action under NRS 597.630.

(Added to NRS by 1983, 612)

NRS 597.630  Duties of manufacturer if motor vehicle cannot be conformed to express warranties.

1.  If, after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer, or its agent or authorized dealer is unable to conform the motor vehicle to any applicable express warranty by repair or correction and the defect or condition causing the nonconformity substantially impairs the use and value of the motor vehicle to the buyer and is not the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications or alterations of the motor vehicle, the manufacturer shall:

(a) Replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle of the same model and having the same features as the replaced vehicle, or if such a vehicle cannot be delivered to the buyer within a reasonable time, then a comparable motor vehicle substantially similar to the replaced vehicle; or

(b) Accept return of the motor vehicle from the buyer and refund to him or her the full purchase price including all sales taxes, license fees, registration fees and other similar governmental charges, less a reasonable allowance for his or her use of the vehicle. A reasonable allowance for use is that amount directly attributable to use by the buyer before his or her first report of the nonconformity to the manufacturer, agent or dealer and during any subsequent period when the vehicle is not out of service for repairs. Refunds must be made to the buyer, and lienholder if any, as their interests may appear.

2.  It is presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties where:

(a) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer, or its agent or authorized dealer within the time the express warranty is in effect or within 1 year following the date the motor vehicle is delivered to the original buyer, whichever occurs earlier, but the nonconformity continues to exist; or

(b) The motor vehicle is out of service for repairs for a cumulative total of 30 or more calendar days within the time the express warranty is in effect or within 1 year following the date the motor vehicle is delivered to the original buyer, whichever occurs earlier, except that if the necessary repairs cannot be made for reasons which are beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agent or authorized dealer, the number of days required to give rise to the presumption must be appropriately extended.

(Added to NRS by 1983, 611)

NRS 597.640  Tolling of period for express warranties.  For the purposes of NRS 597.600 to 597.670, inclusive, the running of the time an express warranty is in effect or of any other period of time described in those sections is tolled for the time during which services to repair the motor vehicle are not reasonably available to the buyer because of a war, invasion or strike, or because of a fire, flood or other natural disaster.

(Added to NRS by 1983, 611)

NRS 597.650  Commencement of action by buyer.  Any action brought pursuant to NRS 597.600 to 597.630, inclusive, must be commenced within 18 months after the date of the original delivery of the motor vehicle to the buyer.

(Added to NRS by 1983, 612)

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...l#NRS597Sec600

[leightos]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

A quick google says NV's Lemon Law Statute of Limitations is 18 months from the point of sale, so you may want to double-check them on that.

Yeah, I asked the lawyer for his quote on the 1 year thing, it's right there...

NRS 597.610  Report of defect in motor vehicle; duty of manufacturer.  If a new motor vehicle does not conform to all of the manufacturer’s applicable express warranties and the buyer reports the nonconformity in writing to the manufacturer:

1.  Before the expiration of the manufacturer’s express warranties; or

2.  No later than 1 year after the date the motor vehicle is delivered to the original buyer, whichever occurs earlier, the manufacturer,

like you all said the commencement of action 18 months is another provision I have to discuss w/ the lawyer.

I got a similar update from BMWNA today who conferred with local service director. They haven't completed the troubleshooting steps laid out by BMWNA Techs. Friday will be 10 days since they've had it, 16 days working on HV battery issues which means a meager 2 weeks to hit official lemon law qualification in most states. BMWNA knows this.

I will email my CS rep at BMWNA to put forth in writing that I am pursuing a replacement or buyback. I think I also have rights because I bought it in CA. But that's a gray area.

Also, I personally think the 5 months, (timeframe I could drive on the ICE only, when I was alerted to the recall by BMWNA and the time the High Voltage Battery was fixed ) counts as time w/ the car in a non-conformity status. Just saying...

thanks so much to all

[leightos]

I was just told they have to order circuit boards and other hybrid battery parts. It will take 3 weeks, and another week to repair.

I've passed on the info to BMWNA and a lawyer here in town.

[cellarrat]

Originally Posted by leightos

so, having my 3rd issue w/ my BMX X5 45e in the last year. I've read up on the lemon laws (for Nevada) and it's 4 instances or 30 days in a year. Looks like I'll hit that mark on days w/ this last issue: thread here
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1807656&page=3

So I had the car fail on an update (in the shop last Aug for 10 days)
Then had the recall - that was in the shop 5 days but doesn't include 5 months without using the battery hybrid.
And now the issue from Wed night. The local BMW place still hasn't diagnosed the issue, but they say it's probably battery related.
We all know that battery issues can take weeks if not months to get parts and get fixed.
Look I don't want to get too far out on this before they give me the final word on the fix and parts. But looked up the lemon laws and it says you must meet the requirements but that you must also inform the manufacturer in writing of you intent to declare the car a lemon.

I called BMW Customer Care, and they actually said all they can do is have some agent call me and discuss - the lady on the phone said they can't actually use that term "lemon".

So I did a search online and got a few hits of where to send the letter, and I won't send it yet of course. But I'm going to prepare myself because this could take weeks to fix, and months to argue about the lemon law w/ BMW. Not sure if anyone has done this before.

Any comments I'd be glad to hear it.
ps... I still don't have a loaner (they're all out) and not a rental (they said they're waiting on Corp approval which was BS according to the lady on the phone today. I'm still waiting to hear from the Henderson BMW service manager who didn't return my calls today)

cheers

Man, you sure have had a rough go of it. I never formally invoked the local lemon law, but had multiple issues (none as serious as yours!) with a Volvo. Called the owner of the dealership, told him how unhappy I was, and he agreed to buy back the car. Could not have been easier, and I have always admired the guy (now my Congressman, ironically) for being such a stand-up guy.


Have you spoken to the management/ownership of the dealership? It isn't as if they'd have a hard time selling the car once it's fixed.

[leightos]

I haven't spoken to the dealership here only because I just moved to Nevada, and bought the car in California. I'm going to let BMWNA run with it for now and see what they say. They've been responsive and many on here say they are generally fair.