[wall_nut]

Wow so I've never seen a DSP config before. I used to install stereos and amps as a hobby 20 years ago and hated using "line level inputs" as they tended to sound much worse than the RCA analog outputs. Is that what's being used with this match amp? Is the tech ok?

Looks like what @Security_IE said should work for u if you want to try it. Sounds like a good idea to me. Can the rear channels be mapped to the front in this DSP software to reduce the turn signal sounds?

Would you have any photos of the amp install? Want to check it out.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by wall_nut

Wow so I've never seen a DSP config before. I used to install stereos and amps as a hobby 20 years ago and hated using "line level inputs" as they tended to sound much worse than the RCA analog outputs. Is that what's being used with this match amp? Is the tech ok?

Looks like what @Security_IE said should work for u if you want to try it. Sounds like a good idea to me. Can the rear channels be mapped to the front in this DSP software to reduce the turn signal sounds?

Would you have any photos of the amp install? Want to check it out.

This is one of many screens. You can demo it for free by downloading the Match UP 7DSP Tool. This configuration uses the speaker level outputs as inputs to the amplifier, which mixes these into 7 outputs. Would rather have pre-amp outputs, but this is what we have and it works. From there you can refine things to further by using the Real Time Analyzer fine tune the frequency levels and/or use the special effects to supplement the deficiencies in the speakers/environment. Once one of us does this, the settings file can be shared with others

Photos... yes, I'll take some snap shots and post them when I do some more DSP programming in the next couple of days.

[wall_nut]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

This is one of many screens. You can demo it for free by downloading the Match UP 7DSP Tool. This configuration uses the speaker level outputs as inputs to the amplifier, which mixes these into 7 outputs. Would rather have pre-amp outputs, but this is what we have and it works. From there you can refine things to further by using the Real Time Analyzer fine tune the frequency levels and/or use the special effects to supplement the deficiencies in the speakers/environment. Once one of us does this, the settings file can be shared with others

Photos... yes, I'll take some snap shots and post them when I do some more DSP programming in the next couple of days.

Since the HiFi speakers are 2ohm and the match amp is built for 4ohm loads (right?) could that be a possible factor in explaining why the turn signals are disproportionately louder than they should be?

[wjbender]

A mismatch of impedance between the amplifier and the load (speakers) will cause a loss of power

[wall_nut]

Originally Posted by wjbender

A mismatch of impedance between the amplifier and the load (speakers) will cause a loss of power

So I read up on it here

https://soundcertified.com/why-is-it...ce-is-too-low/

The article suggests that lower impedence speakers cause the amp to work too hard by sending excessive power to produce the sound. This creates heat and can damage the amp.

This is counter intuitive to me as I thought a lower impedence meant lower resistance to the energy supplied which could damage speakers. Is it the case then that the excess power is returned back to the amplifier as wasted energy and this is the cause of the problem?

[wall_nut]

Mm a lower impedence (resistance) allows more juice to flow through the equipment. Hence more heat.

Wouldn't the speaker itself react to this in some way by being louder and distort more easily was my train of thought.

[wall_nut]

I'm still trying to understand this but it's difficult. This post helps a little.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...impedance-spea

For a factory speaker with a specific efficiency it is designed to allow a specific amount of current to it using a specific impedance based on the factory amp's capabilities. Obviously the stuff is designed to work together as a whole and you may need to think of the entire system this way.

When you replace the amp with one designed to push a 4ohm speaker and you instead use 2ohm speakers we should expect the amp to allow more current to pass to the speakers that will likely be wasted into heat. How the speaker reacts to this is still not clear to me. One thing that might happen if you have 5 channels wasting current is that the subwoofers might not have the full power of the amp anymore. Just something to ponder.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by wall_nut

Since the HiFi speakers are 2ohm and the match amp is built for 4ohm loads (right?) could that be a possible factor in explaining why the turn signals are disproportionately louder than they should be?

The front/rear/center OEM speakers are 4ohms, underseat woofers are 2 ohms. The Match amp pushes 65/130 watts @ 4 ohms each of the front/rear R/L/C and 160/320 watts @ 2 ohms to each of the subs. No mismatches, all is good, sounds amazing.

The signals/warning sounds are mixed into the signal before the amp hence they get amplified.

[wall_nut]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

The front/rear/center OEM speakers are 4ohms, underseat woofers are 2 ohms. The Match amp pushes 65/130 watts @ 4 ohms each of the front/rear R/L/C and 160/320 watts @ 2 ohms to each of the subs. No mismatches, all is good, sounds amazing.

The signals/warning sounds are mixed into the signal before the amp hence they get amplified.

Ahh shoot for some reason I thought the entire system was 2 ohms. Thanks for setting me straight.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by wall_nut

I'm still trying to understand this but it's difficult. This post helps a little.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...impedance-spea

For a factory speaker with a specific efficiency it is designed to allow a specific amount of current to it using a specific impedance based on the factory amp's capabilities. Obviously the stuff is designed to work together as a whole and you may need to think of the entire system this way.

When you replace the amp with one designed to push a 4ohm speaker and you instead use 2ohm speakers we should expect the amp to allow more current to pass to the speakers that will likely be wasted into heat. How the speaker reacts to this is still not clear to me. One thing that might happen if you have 5 channels wasting current is that the subwoofers might not have the full power of the amp anymore. Just something to ponder.

Right on target! the extra power overloads the amp and the energy is wasted as heat

[olneymd]

With a base Hi-Fi system in the X5, will upgrading the amp and/or speakers also make the warning chimes, turn indicators louder than they are now? The turn indicator is loud already, and the thought of it being made louder with an amp or speaker upgrade might be a negative for me. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Security_IE]

Originally Posted by olneymd

With a base Hi-Fi system in the X5, will upgrading the amp and/or speakers also make the warning chimes, turn indicators louder than they are now? The turn indicator is loud already, and the thought of it being made louder with an amp or speaker upgrade might be a negative for me. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Yes it will be louder when adding an amplifier. You are amplifying the output that contains the music and the warning chimes. The positive is that those tones are sent at a constant volume, independent from the music level. There are volume settings for the chimes and indicators in iDrive. I believe they were in the menu with bass/treble etc. I turned mine down from the factory setting.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by olneymd

With a base Hi-Fi system in the X5, will upgrading the amp and/or speakers also make the warning chimes, turn indicators louder than they are now? The turn indicator is loud already, and the thought of it being made louder with an amp or speaker upgrade might be a negative for me. Any thoughts? Thanks.

It's louder but after minimizing it as the previous post stated, I actually I can't hear the blinkers much over the volume of the improved sound system...

[statop]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

I'm near Atlanta. I received word …

Can you/anyone recommend a good installer in the Atlanta area? Looking to get something equivalent to b&w installed, but worried about electrical stuff in 45e.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by statop

Can you/anyone recommend a good installer in the Atlanta area? Looking to get something equivalent to b&w installed, but worried about electrical stuff in 45e.

Benchmark Soundworks in Alpharetta is who I'd use if I was installing professionally. I interviewed a number of Atlanta area installers... only Benchmark seemed to standout. I visited their shop and found it was clean and the work area had a number of BMWs and Porsches. They showed me some adapters that they just manufactured for a Porsche they were doing... impressive. I ended up installing myself since I could get what I needed for under $2k DIY. The system they recommended was going to be significantly better but cost around $4K... temping but I'm upgrading my X5 in less than 3 yrs. However they offer a no/low fee retro fit of your OEM system and swap of their stuff into your new car that was attractive. Who ever you use, let us know the results.

[5pacey]

The amp seems to be a no-brainer - the Audiotec-Fischer Match Up7 (makers of Brax & Helix amps btw. which are top audiophile level amps). @$900 + $120 for the harness cable/kit its not cheap but not ridiculous.

BUT - anybody installed the PnP Focals from Crutchfield? They are $, but Focals are awesome speakers so very curious what you get for ~$2100 worth of speakers if you replace the whole set.

Otherwise you get bavaudio or bimmertech no-name mystery specials, for ~1/2 the price or less.

[RC_Hund]

There are cheaper places to buy Focal than through Crutchfield... check ebay.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by RC_Hund

There are cheaper places to buy Focal than through Crutchfield... check ebay.

So I hear... ... I will need to check that out, good point.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

The amp seems to be a no-brainer - the Audiotec-Fischer Match Up7 (makers of Brax & Helix amps btw. which are top audiophile level amps). @$900 + $120 for the harness cable/kit its not cheap but not ridiculous.

BUT - anybody installed the PnP Focals from Crutchfield? They are $, but Focals are awesome speakers so very curious what you get for ~$2100 worth of speakers if you replace the whole set.

Otherwise you get bavaudio or bimmertech no-name mystery specials, for ~1/2 the price or less.

FWIW, my Focals for the front/rear doors and center were around $600 delivered, about what Bavsounds cost. Focal subs can be had for about the same cost as Bavsound as well. If you are going down this road, get the amp as well, you'll thank me later. The BMW premium package that included the HK and HUD was $2700 just before they dropped it. I'm at $2K installed with my system, so it's not like this upgrade is stupid money, on the contrary it's pretty reasonable.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

FWIW, my Focals for the front/rear doors and center were around $600 delivered, about what Bavsounds cost. Focal subs can be had for about the same cost as Bavsound as well. If you are going down this road, get the amp as well, you'll thank me later. The BMW premium package that included the HK and HUD was $2700 just before they dropped it. I'm at $2K installed with my system, so it's not like this upgrade is stupid money, on the contrary it's pretty reasonable.

Ha! That does sound like a reasonable number all said and done. The $1k for the amp is OK'ish but mainly because its PnP, not because its an awesome amp . I suspect its "decent", and clearly much better than the stock 676 system and/or HK, but I've gone through a car audio nut phase about 15 years ago and know what an awesome vs less awesome vs crap amp is. And $1k buys you a really good amp most of the time. This one does have a lot of channels though. The key metric is the RMS power, and how "true" the published numbers are along with THD. I am hopefull, since Audiotec-Fischer is a very reputable brand and they have been around for a long time.

In fact I still have two monster Brax (same company - Audiotec-Fischer), their top of the line amps, in the basement pulled from my '99 528 once it retired. Not sure what to do w/them because they are too good to just let them go, but don't have a project car at the moment to put them in, and they do take a lot of space.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Ha! That does sound like a reasonable number all said and done. The $1k for the amp is OK'ish but mainly because its PnP, not because its an awesome amp . I suspect its "decent", and clearly much better than the stock 676 system and/or HK, but I've gone through a car audio nut phase about 15 years ago and know what an awesome vs less awesome vs crap amp is. And $1k buys you a really good amp most of the time. This one does have a lot of channels though. The key metric is the RMS power, and how "true" the published numbers are along with THD. I am hopefull, since Audiotec-Fischer is a very reputable brand and they have been around for a long time.

In fact I still have two monster Brax (same company - Audiotec-Fischer), their top of the line amps, in the basement pulled from my '99 528 once it retired. Not sure what to do w/them because they are too good to just let them go, but don't have a project car at the moment to put them in, and they do take a lot of space.

You probably already know this but make sure you get the Match UP 7DSP/MEC if you have 676 HiFi. It's ~$1300 delivered + tax including the wire harness.

You can use your old amp to power a trunk wheel well sub! They like a lot of power to work right... at least 200 rms if not 3-400.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

You probably already know this but make sure you get the Match UP 7DSP/MEC if you have 676 HiFi. It's ~$1300 delivered + tax including the wire harness.

You can use your old amp to power a trunk wheel well sub! They like a lot of power to work right... at least 200 rms if not 3-400.

So I was looking at the two amps and as best I can tell the only difference is that UP7DSP has a an extra line level input expansion card, vs UP7BMW does not. Either one is going to need the $120,- harness... no? I shouldn't need the extra line level card. Or, am I missing something?

He he he... here's my old setup... Its a Brax X2000 and Brax X2400, + 2 1F caps (dead by now). Strapped to a sub box w/2 10" Alpine sealed subs. The X2000 is 1x740w RMS into 4 ohms... 4 gauge power leads. Its a beast.

View post on imgur.com

The car I have on order is the X5e, so the spare wheel well is used afaik. But there is some additional under-trunk space there, just not sure the size. Plus I'd need space for the amp itself. Not sure I want to screw around w/this... if I change up the under-seat subs and it still sucks maybe... but honestly I learned to live w/the HK in the F15, so I suspect I may be ok.