BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-19-2021, 04:52 PM   #45
therangerangler
Enlisted Member
12
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 45e
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
Thanks for the input. What amplifier are you running?
I'm running the bimmertech amp, it's the audiotec-fisher PP86DSP. I'm using their "default" hifi tune, with the exception of some changes to the gain.

Because of the loudness of the turn signal indicators, they had the gain turned down to "0" by default to reduce customer complaints. At that point, I questioned the necessity of an amp. We tried the gain up at "5" and my wife was complaining about how loud the turn signal indicators were. We settled at "3" and it seems to be the sweet spot for getting some more power to the speakers, but not an overly loud turn signal indicator.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 05:17 PM   #46
wjbender
Captain
wjbender's Avatar
United_States
345
Rep
781
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 40i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NJ - Jersey Shore

iTrader: (0)

I'm returning my Bavsound speakers and I have the Focal set on order from Ebay/Germany @ $654 for doors, and dash center. Bavsound is a noticeable improvement, but I hear a somewhat distorted sound on some vocals. Not the smoothness I expected. And that is when playing music at 50 -75% volume, so I'm not really pushing the HiFi amp. Well, let's hope they refund my $$ and that the Focal speakers perform better. After doing the install once, it will only take me 15 - 20 minutes per door to do it again. Not so scary now. I'll post an update after I do the install.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 08:04 PM   #47
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by therangerangler View Post
I'm running the bimmertech amp, it's the audiotec-fisher PP86DSP. I'm using their "default" hifi tune, with the exception of some changes to the gain.

Because of the loudness of the turn signal indicators, they had the gain turned down to "0" by default to reduce customer complaints. At that point, I questioned the necessity of an amp. We tried the gain up at "5" and my wife was complaining about how loud the turn signal indicators were. We settled at "3" and it seems to be the sweet spot for getting some more power to the speakers, but not an overly loud turn signal indicator.
I stopped procrastinating, went into the garage and switched my tweeters to -3db, definitely took the edge off. I have a Match 7DSP amp and it's strong so this should allow me to increase the volume w/o pain. I need to tune the DSP since I didn't get presets for it from Audiotech other than channel mapping.

Re increased indicators, once I set the sound level for them to the minimum (car/settings/sound/...)they don't bother me, in fact I can't hear them over the music...lol.
Appreciate 1
cptcolo102.00
      10-20-2021, 12:22 PM   #48
therangerangler
Enlisted Member
12
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 45e
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
I stopped procrastinating, went into the garage and switched my tweeters to -3db, definitely took the edge off. I have a Match 7DSP amp and it's strong so this should allow me to increase the volume w/o pain. I need to tune the DSP since I didn't get presets for it from Audiotech other than channel mapping.

Re increased indicators, once I set the sound level for them to the minimum (car/settings/sound/...)they don't bother me, in fact I can't hear them over the music...lol.
Wait, you can decrease the volume for the turn signal indicators? I found the settings for the start up gong and one other thing. Turned those all the way down, but nothing for the turn signals.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 07:38 PM   #49
silverstar335
Major
silverstar335's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
1,340
Posts

Drives: G05
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (4)

I may have to do the same and switch the tweeters to -3db. I already have an offer from the German distributor for the ES100K, very tempted, just trying to figure out where exactly I would get the adapters from.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:10 PM   #50
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by therangerangler View Post
Wait, you can decrease the volume for the turn signal indicators? I found the settings for the start up gong and one other thing. Turned those all the way down, but nothing for the turn signals.
Car/Settings/sound/… menu
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 08:11 PM   #51
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstar335 View Post
I may have to do the same and switch the tweeters to -3db. I already have an offer from the German distributor for the ES100K, very tempted, just trying to figure out where exactly I would get the adapters from.
eBay
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:58 PM   #52
silverstar335
Major
silverstar335's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
1,340
Posts

Drives: G05
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstar335 View Post
I may have to do the same and switch the tweeters to -3db. I already have an offer from the German distributor for the ES100K, very tempted, just trying to figure out where exactly I would get the adapters from.
eBay
Thanks, I placed an order for the Bowers&Wilkins illuminated covers,
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2021, 08:24 PM   #53
MarkCav
Private First Class
72
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: BMW X5
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lincoln University, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaztheDad View Post
I think there is a fair sized group of us wanting to order, but we're all holding out for HK or B&W. Your efforts might sway us.

Have you put together a component list of what all you upgraded, maybe in a better or best list so we could order now with HiFi and take all this gear to a local installer for the upgrade?
Not sure what else to say beyond what I've said across a number of posts on multiple threads. I'm running an Audiotec Match UP 7DSP/MEC with Focal BMW 100L speakers in the front doors. I just ordered the Focals for the rear doors and the center. I'm working through whether to replace the under-seat sub but things sound very good at this point, mostly concerned about damage now that I'm powering them each at 160/320w/ch. So far this has cost me around $2k. I did the install so no labor costs. I'm very happy with this system.

If I was using a professional, I'd install either the system above (~3-4 hr install) or better install an Alpine PDP-E800DSP amp with Focal K2s and Gladen Extreme under-seat 8" woofers powered by the Alpine or a dedicated 200w rms ch amp. You'll need to buy a Technicpnp harness kit to wire the amp into the factory harness. Good installers have CNC machines and 3D printers to create spacers and adapters for a PnP install. You could add a true subwoofer in spare tire well but from what I've read, correctly powering the right under-seat woofer is all you need. The first system is easy to install, but talk to your installer about the second one to ensure they are capable of installing it and can fit the xovers somewhere. My understanding is that the mids will fit in the door enclosures but need adapters so have your installer measure them to ensure they'll fit. FWIW, a respected local installer recommended this system and said it all works. The K2's are a significant step up from the BMW 100Ls and Alpine has a higher rms/ch (100w rms) to power them and with good woofers you'll have a killer sound system.
I have been to several shops in the past couple of days and I was told by both places the Focal K2's can't be installed without big modifications to the inside and outside door panels. I was told the depth of the K2's fitting in the door is the major issue.

I just got a 2022 X5 m50i.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2021, 09:44 AM   #54
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCav View Post
I have been to several shops in the past couple of days and I was told by both places the Focal K2's can't be installed without big modifications to the inside and outside door panels. I was told the depth of the K2's fitting in the door is the major issue.

I just got a 2022 X5 m50i.
My installer didn't have an issue but I decided to DIY with the their PnP system. You do need an adapter and connectors which can be sourced off of eBay, and when I installed my focal speakers it looked like their was enough depth for the increased depth the K2 (they are 2.3 mm deeper) but until someone can report on doing it, it's a risk.
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2021, 11:05 AM   #55
MarkCav
Private First Class
72
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: BMW X5
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lincoln University, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCav View Post
I have been to several shops in the past couple of days and I was told by both places the Focal K2's can't be installed without big modifications to the inside and outside door panels. I was told the depth of the K2's fitting in the door is the major issue.

I just got a 2022 X5 m50i.
My installer didn't have an issue but I decided to DIY with the their PnP system. You do need an adapter and connectors which can be sourced off of eBay, and when I installed my focal speakers it looked like their was enough depth for the increased depth the K2 (they are 2.3 mm deeper) but until someone can report on doing it, it's a risk.
Thanks VertigoAtHome. I would rather go with the K2's. I've heard they're a huge step up from the PNP's.
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2021, 08:24 AM   #56
Atlantis8000
New Member
12
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: X5 G05 45E
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCav View Post
Thanks VertigoAtHome. I would rather go with the K2's. I've heard they're a huge step up from the PNP's.
They are a huge step up. I've heard them in a G05. They sound very good. I am going to replace the 676 Hifi speakers with Focal K2's myself.
Appreciate 1
      10-24-2021, 09:59 AM   #57
MarkCav
Private First Class
72
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: BMW X5
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lincoln University, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis8000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCav View Post
Thanks VertigoAtHome. I would rather go with the K2's. I've heard they're a huge step up from the PNP's.
They are a huge step up. I've heard them in a G05. They sound very good. I am going to replace the 676 Hifi speakers with Focal K2's myself.
Please let me know when you do- hopefully there are no modifications involved. How did your friend install them?
Appreciate 1
      10-25-2021, 08:50 AM   #58
Atlantis8000
New Member
12
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: X5 G05 45E
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCav View Post
Please let me know when you do- hopefully there are no modifications involved. How did your friend install them?
I didn't hear it in a friends car, but at a Car audio dealer. He knew I was looking for an upgrade and he called me because another customer had the same "problem" as I will have when my car gets delivered in 3 weeks... The "HIFI" 676 option

He used some adaptor-rings. Depth did not seem to be an issue.
Appreciate 2
MarkCav72.00
5pacey55.00
      10-26-2021, 08:06 PM   #59
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis8000 View Post
They are a huge step up. I've heard them in a G05. They sound very good. I am going to replace the 676 Hifi speakers with Focal K2's myself.
Been running with -3db on my Focal 100L tweeter connections for a few days now, wow what a difference. The sound is significantly improved, any harness is gone, definitely the setting to use, at least for those running an Audiotech amp. Sounds so good that it inspired me to see how K2s would sound so I order a set. Maybe not worth it given I have things sorted at this point but I'm on a bit of mission. Will update folks once I have them installed, hopefully no issues.
Appreciate 3
      10-27-2021, 04:11 PM   #60
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Wanted to pass along more information regarding the crossover attenuation setting for the Focal IS 100L tweeter. So I'm sure you understand that this setting increases/decreases the volume for the tweeter relative to the mid-range speaker. When I first installed my set I left it at 0db thinking flat would be best but it turned out to be too bright and was obscuring the mids at volume. It depended on the song, some were fine while others forced me to lower the volume. Moving both the Left/Right to -3b is perfect for me as I pointed out above and now everything I listen to sounds balanced at virtually any volume. However I just read that some people use this setting to adjust the off-axis positioning of left vs right speaker. That is, right speaker is not aligned to the driver the same as the left so you can use the attenuation to increase one side to overcome to loss of volume due to angle of the speaker. As one of you pointed out, make sure to leave enough of a lead on your wires when installing them to allow you to play with it w/o having to remove the door panel.

Btw, the K2 crossover expands on this by adding a +3db setting.
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2021, 08:46 PM   #61
wjbender
Captain
wjbender's Avatar
United_States
345
Rep
781
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 40i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NJ - Jersey Shore

iTrader: (0)

Would it be possible to achieve the same results (or better) by using the equalizer in the Match amplifier?
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2021, 10:40 PM   #62
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbender View Post
Would it be possible to achieve the same results (or better) by using the equalizer in the Match amplifier?
Good question, I don't know yet, I have to believe it would help. The Match DSP has a real time analyzer to adjust the frequencies programmatically rather than attempting to adjust it manually by ear which I understand is difficult for even the best audiophiles. I've never used a RTA before so it's another project that I need to set up and learn. It's been on my list since I installed the amp. I need a quality mic to do it, think I found one for around $130. I have downloaded some pink noise sound files which I can play through my iPhone. Need to read the documentation... ugh... it'll be hours of time.. but it needs to be done!

That said, I'm not sure if its it's just a few frequencies that are the problem or the entire upper range is too loud relative to the mid-range. When it was set to 0db vocals dominated over strings and percussion for most of the songs, and some guitar solos made my ears bleed, so I suspect the tweeter was simply too bright across the entire range. With the quick change to -3db it seemed to clear up the entire issue but it doesn't mean it can't be better, and adjusting the frequencies is certainly more precise for select problem areas. My understanding is there are limits; can more easily lower highs than raise lows when compared to a reference curve.

At this point I'll wait until I get my K2s installed to see what new problems that introduces. I ordered the adapter rings today so hopefully that will solve the speaker install... there might be an issue with the tweeter that I learned of today, there's an adapter ring for it in the kit as well. I assuming I can find a place to put the 3x4in crossovers in the doors. My friends think I'm nuts after listening to my current system but it'll be epic if I can get it done.
Appreciate 1
      10-28-2021, 02:40 PM   #63
wjbender
Captain
wjbender's Avatar
United_States
345
Rep
781
Posts

Drives: 2022 X5 40i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NJ - Jersey Shore

iTrader: (0)

I was looking at this microphone for tuning.
AudioControl SA-4100i Omni-directional Audio Test and Measurement Microphone for Apple / iOS Devices. Possibly there are less costly alternatives. I like that it uses the iPhone and several apps work with it.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2021, 02:47 PM   #64
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

I just bought a miniDSP UMIK-1 Omni-directional USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone off Parts Express. Plus I bought a 15' USB extension so I can plug it into my PC in the back of the car I'm using to interface with the DSP while taking the measurement.
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2021, 08:35 AM   #65
silverstar335
Major
silverstar335's Avatar
United_States
502
Rep
1,340
Posts

Drives: G05
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbender View Post
Would it be possible to achieve the same results (or better) by using the equalizer in the Match amplifier?
Good question, I don't know yet, I have to believe it would help. The Match DSP has a real time analyzer to adjust the frequencies programmatically rather than attempting to adjust it manually by ear which I understand is difficult for even the best audiophiles. I've never used a RTA before so it's another project that I need to set up and learn. It's been on my list since I installed the amp. I need a quality mic to do it, think I found one for around $130. I have downloaded some pink noise sound files which I can play through my iPhone. Need to read the documentation... ugh... it'll be hours of time.. but it needs to be done!

That said, I'm not sure if its it's just a few frequencies that are the problem or the entire upper range is too loud relative to the mid-range. When it was set to 0db vocals dominated over strings and percussion for most of the songs, and some guitar solos made my ears bleed, so I suspect the tweeter was simply too bright across the entire range. With the quick change to -3db it seemed to clear up the entire issue but it doesn't mean it can't be better, and adjusting the frequencies is certainly more precise for select problem areas. My understanding is there are limits; can more easily lower highs than raise lows when compared to a reference curve.

At this point I'll wait until I get my K2s installed to see what new problems that introduces. I ordered the adapter rings today so hopefully that will solve the speaker install... there might be an issue with the tweeter that I learned of today, there's an adapter ring for it in the kit as well. I assuming I can find a place to put the 3x4in crossovers in the doors. My friends think I'm nuts after listening to my current system but it'll be epic if I can get it done.
Did you get the K2s for the rear as well, I have looked at wiring diagrams for the HK and HiFi system and there is almost no difference between the two. Based on what I saw the component speakers should work in the rear without the tweeter being connected. Thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2021, 09:38 AM   #66
VertigoAtHome
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 x40i M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstar335 View Post
Did you get the K2s for the rear as well, I have looked at wiring diagrams for the HK and HiFi system and there is almost no difference between the two. Based on what I saw the component speakers should work in the rear without the tweeter being connected. Thoughts?
I don't see any reason the HiFi wiring won't work for rear components, you'll need tweeter enclosures. I already have IC 100L rear speakers installed. I ordered just the fronts, they were delivered on Friday. First impression, K2 mid is slightly smaller than the OEM, shouldn't be an fitment issue. The tweeter on the other hand requires a protective collar whose OD is larger than OEM tweeter. I'm hoping the one in the adapter kit will work. The crossover is huge (3x4x1.5), leap of faith this will fit somewhere in the door. Hoping K2s are worth it, on paper the T/S parameters don't look much different than the 100Ls .

A tech at Focal suggested I cross the mids at 200hz with a -12db slope given we have subs. That's pretty high, I currently have the 100Ls crossed at 150hz w/ -24db slope using an LR filter. As this progresses, the under-seat sub is becoming a key issue in obtaining a full sound. I'm still using the OEM as better options, at least on paper, are limited... but that's worthy of an entire thread.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST