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      11-26-2023, 01:35 PM   #1
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Thoughts on M60i vs M50i (exhaust and A.S.S)

Cross posting this on the X5 forum.... same applies to X5 so I assume its relevant here too!

So, I have an M50i X5.... so am familiar with the M50i environment. My mom has an M50i X7. She just got a new M60i X7 and my fiance is buying her M50i X7. We were there for thanksgiving and I was checking out her new M60i and comparing it to the M50i side by side before we take it home.

Knowing the M50i through my X5 and reading all of the comments about the ASS annoyance and some saying the exhaust note is way less aggressive.



A couple of thoughts:
The exhaust doesn't even sound like V8
It sounds more like the B58 or V6 in my opinion - so disappointing
The ASS is annoying as SHHHHHIIIITTTTTTT
Even though its annoying, it is fairly smooth in the transitions

It makes me think that BMW prioritized the 48 volt system, ASS, etc and the exhaust was a victim in all of this. The M50i exhaust is very aggressive and if it was turning on and off constantly like the M60i does, I could see how that could be annoying as well.

So, here is my theory.... prioritize the hybrid ASS on a V8 powered $130k SUV with ///M written all over it (even though its not a real M), market the new engine as an ///M engine and the exhaust still gets clipped as a result of all of this. All in the name of energy conservation. Makes sense, doesn't it? No, it does not.
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      11-26-2023, 02:14 PM   #2
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^^^^^What exactly is in the name of energy conservation? An M60i is not a $130,000 vehicle.
The full boat X5M and M60i share the identical "M" engine. The X5M has its own calibration that accounts for the power delta.
Sounds like you should keep your M50i which is a great vehicle that I enjoyed for nearly 3 years.
The M60i that I have driven now for over 4 months is phenomenal.

Last edited by cobramite; 11-26-2023 at 02:21 PM..
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      11-26-2023, 02:19 PM   #3
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Agreed the logic makes 0 sense.

Appreciate you confirming what others have been highlighting / not happy with.

Personally - I’d be most upset about the ASS functionality as I fall into the minority of those who prefer these luxury SUVs moonlighting as performance SUVs to be quiet. The m50 is too loud for me, at least on start up, it’s not bad when driving. But If I wanted exhaust I’d get the full M. I like the sleepers and too many tin cans slapped onto anything that moves where I feel exhaust notes are often seen as unnecessary and annoying unless you have a true sports car.
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      11-26-2023, 02:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
^^^^^What exactly is in the name of energy conservation? An M60i is not a $130,000 vehicle.
The full boat X5M and M60i share the identical "M" engine. The X5M has its own calibration that accounts for the power delta.
Sounds like you should keep your M50i which is a great vehicle that I enjoyed for nearly 3 years.
The M60i that I have driven now for over 4 months is phenomenal.
Im glad you read the post! It's an X7 and the sticker was $127k. And its not mine, it's my mom's... my fiance is buying her X7 M50i and I already have an X5 M50i.

Hybrid is 100% about energy conservation and the transition from fossil fuels.... as is all electric. not sure where you've been for the last 20 years.
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      11-26-2023, 03:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avi8tir View Post
Im glad you read the post! It's an X7 and the sticker was $127k. And its not mine, it's my mom's... my fiance is buying her X7 M50i and I already have an X5 M50i.

Hybrid is 100% about energy conservation and the transition from fossil fuels.... as is all electric. not sure where you've been for the last 20 years.
The mild hybrid aspect of the M60i is fantastic and adds a very noticeable torque bump(147lb ft) when called for and is not a PHEV. This "mild" system is a power adder which is a good thing. I would gladly pay for more gasoline to enjoy this additional power but the mild hybrid delivers it with a slight fuel savings which is fine by me.
I am seriously considering the non PHEV hybrid C8 Eray that can run mid 2s and mid 10s, fastest Corvette to date.
Hybrids are cool and coming on strong in a good way and it really isn't all about "energy conservation". Where you been Dude.

Last edited by cobramite; 11-26-2023 at 03:14 PM..
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      11-26-2023, 03:14 PM   #6
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I have about 5K miles on my M60i. Bought it for luxury, tech and performance. For me muted sound of exhaust and ASS are slightly annoying but not a deal breaker. And majority of people simply don't care about it at all. But if these two points are such a big deal then you simply shouldn't buy M60i - that's all.

It's all about personal preference.
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      11-26-2023, 03:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roamio View Post
I have about 5K miles on my M60i. Bought it for luxury, tech and performance. For me muted sound of exhaust and ASS are slightly annoying but not a deal breaker. And majority of people simply don't care about it at all. But if these two points are such a big deal then you simply shouldn't buy M60i - that's all.

It's all about personal preference.
Agree, preferred my previous M50i exhaust but am OK with the M60i at this point and rarely ever notice the ASS now.
You will find that most M60i owners share the same feelings.

Last edited by cobramite; 11-28-2023 at 07:17 AM..
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      11-26-2023, 04:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
Agree, preferred my previous M50i exhaust but am OK with the M60i at this point and rarely ever notice the ASS now.
You will find that most M60i owners will share the same feelings.
M60 engine sounds like a nice upgrade. More efficient and better off the line tq. All while being quieter. Now I’m very tempted. This solves for everything I don’t like on the m50 lol.
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      11-26-2023, 04:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
The mild hybrid aspect of the M60i is fantastic and adds a very noticeable torque bump(147lb ft) when called for and is not a PHEV. This "mild" system is a power adder which is a good thing. I would gladly pay for more gasoline to enjoy this additional power but the mild hybrid delivers it with a slight fuel savings which is fine by me.
I am seriously considering the non PHEV hybrid C8 Eray that can run mid 2s and mid 10s, fastest Corvette to date.
Hybrids are cool and coming on strong in a good way and it really isn't all about "energy conservation". Where you been Dude.
100%. Adding to your point - Porsche Cayenne turbo GT. Believe it or not… it’s a hybrid bc of performance reasons!
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      11-26-2023, 04:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattl0806 View Post
100%. Adding to your point - Porsche Cayenne turbo GT. Believe it or not… it’s a hybrid bc of performance reasons!
Perfect example of a really badass hybrid. Cayenne E hybrid Turbo S is a real bitch too.
https://www.porschefortmyers.com/use...BH2AY0NDA59159
Cool vehicle.

Last edited by cobramite; 11-26-2023 at 04:49 PM..
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      11-26-2023, 06:09 PM   #11
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The 2020 X5M50i power is 523 horsepower and 553 pound-feet of torque @1800rpms. Curb Weight: 5260 lbs.

The 2023 X5M60i “ hybrid assist” is 530 horsepower and 553 pound-feet of torque @1800rpms. Weight 5335 lbs.

The 2024 X5/X6M Competition “hybrid assist” is 617hp and 553 pound-feet of torque @1800rpms. Weight: 5,375lbs


Here is where the BMW marketing machine is pumping Koolaid to the fanboys trying to read the tea leaves to feel more exclusive. As much as I love BMW, there has to be some real world honesty here.

How does adding a “S” to an internal engine designation make it any more of a “real” M engine than the one it replaced with a “N”?? Neither of these engines are built outside the standard manufacturing process. Both have the same power output yet the latest has been modified to a hybrid for mpg only which is kind of a M insult considering what the new M5 hybrid is doing.
It might be plausible to believe the “S” engine letter change stood for something different if the electric helper engine actually added an additional power performance in this application but it doesn’t and actually adds more weight and complexity to the power delivery system. This has been shown time and again by many forum members that when the electric engine in the ZF transmission has an issue, it bricks the entire vehicle.

It’s obvious BMW likes to play in this “M” gray confused area what parameters equate to what a true “M car” is because it sells cars. Historically a M car was just a typical road car with some brake and handling upgrades and maybe we have come full circle.

No letter be it “M” or “S” is sacred anymore for establishing any more exclusivity or prestige under the BMW marketing machine.

For now, you need to have the word “Competition” or “CS” on the back to establish any real high performance meaning. These days may be numbered as well.

Last edited by MystroX5; 11-27-2023 at 01:37 PM..
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      11-26-2023, 06:32 PM   #12
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^^^^^Tuner baseline on the M60i is nearly 500 at the wheel and that is on 91 octane which translates to nearly 600 at the flywheel.
The S68 has been quite underrated as BMW commonly does and is no surprise.
Anyone who has gone directly from an M50i to an M60i understands and is well aware of the power advantage in the LCI. Fanboy or not, real M vehicle or not.
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      11-26-2023, 06:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
^^^^^Tuner baseline on the M60i is nearly 500 at the wheel and that is on 91 octane which translates to nearly 600 at the flywheel.
The S68 has been quite underrated as BMW commonly does and is no surprise.
Anyone who has gone directly from an M50i to an M60i understands and is well aware of the power advantage in the LCI. Fanboy or not, real M vehicle or not.

BMW notoriously underrated the M50i as well. They have always sandbagged their power output.
Same increased real world dyno numbers for the M50i being reported. Dyno numbers are a slippery slope as they vary between each dyno model. Aftermarket tunes for the M50i is putting out ridiculous increases and easier to tune at this point.

My draggy numbers always beat the BMW spec. My old 2019 X5 50i M-Sport could do a 4 second flat 0-60mph and that was with a half a tank of gas in it @ 500ft above sea level. This was well reported when we all started draggy testing the G05. 20” wheels put down faster numbers than 22”ers as well. Launch control is also not always the fastest way to launch.

The moral of the story is forget about the letter on the back or on the engine and go real word test the actual vehicle street performance. Most would be very happy with the numbers. It’s always funny to watch a non “M” full size luxo sedan 750i absolutely walk away from a M3 on the highway.

Last edited by MystroX5; 11-26-2023 at 06:56 PM..
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      11-26-2023, 07:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
^^^^^Tuner baseline on the M60i is nearly 500 at the wheel and that is on 91 octane which translates to nearly 600 at the flywheel.
The S68 has been quite underrated as BMW commonly does and is no surprise.
Anyone who has gone directly from an M50i to an M60i understands and is well aware of the power advantage in the LCI. Fanboy or not, real M vehicle or not.
Wait till he finds out about the 10 sec 12* HP boost from the electric motor 🤯🤯🤯🤯

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      11-26-2023, 07:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3PO View Post
Wait till he finds out about the 10 sec 40 HP boost from the electric motor 🤯🤯🤯🤯
12hp not 40hp.
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      11-26-2023, 07:36 PM   #16
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lol
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      11-26-2023, 07:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
12hp not 40hp.
Where did you see 12? Most reviews I have seen are saying 30-40 hp…
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      11-26-2023, 08:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3PO View Post
Where did you see 12? Most reviews I have seen are saying 30-40 hp…
All info I have seen, from BMW and media sources, say maximum of 12hp. For example, here is the press release from BMWNA and a review of the X7 M60i.

"The electric motor generates an output boost of up to 12 hp and 147 lb-ft of torque, helping the engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency."

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...74&postcount=1

"The electric motor delivers an extra 12 hp (9 kW) and 147 lb-ft (200 Nm)"

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/12/2...0i-s68-engine/
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      11-26-2023, 08:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
All info I have seen, from BMW and media sources, say maximum of 12hp. For example, here is the press release from BMWNA and a review of the X7 M60i.

"The electric motor generates an output boost of up to 12 hp and 147 lb-ft of torque, helping the engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency."

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...74&postcount=1

"The electric motor delivers an extra 12 hp (9 kW) and 147 lb-ft (200 Nm)"

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/04/12/2...0i-s68-engine/
Thank you!
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      11-26-2023, 08:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
12hp not 40hp.
TurtleBoy is correct - there is 48-volt hybrid assist motor in the eight-speed automatic transmission and it offers up 12 hp and 147 lb-ft of torque.
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      11-27-2023, 06:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roamio View Post
TurtleBoy is correct - there is 48-volt hybrid assist motor in the eight-speed automatic transmission and it offers up 12 hp and 147 lb-ft of torque.
Exactly, this is clearly not about 12 HP. It is the torque that you really feel when the electric assist is activated especially from a standstill, just after gear changes, and the instant that the accelerator is depressed at any other point. It is VERY noticeable compared to the M50i. There are many guys who simply do not understand torque and can only think in terms of HP #s when it is torque that makes a vehicle fun to drive where you do not have to wait for power as it is always there. The M60i from a standstill with this extra 147 lb ft of tq is a neck snapper. Some guys care about these things while others don't. "Area under the curve" means nothing to a guy who never goes beyond his 100 HP electric mode in a 6,000 lb SUV.
The fact that BMW significantly underrates their engines for what ever reason is all very well known and not any kind of revelation at this point.

Last edited by cobramite; 11-27-2023 at 07:10 AM..
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      11-28-2023, 04:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobramite View Post
The mild hybrid aspect of the M60i is fantastic and adds a very noticeable torque bump(147lb ft) when called for and is not a PHEV. This "mild" system is a power adder which is a good thing. I would gladly pay for more gasoline to enjoy this additional power but the mild hybrid delivers it with a slight fuel savings which is fine by me.
I am seriously considering the non PHEV hybrid C8 Eray that can run mid 2s and mid 10s, fastest Corvette to date.
Hybrids are cool and coming on strong in a good way and it really isn't all about "energy conservation". Where you been Dude.
The Mild Hybrid DOESN NOT "add" 147lb ft of torque to the engine output. Thats an increase of 27% over stock. The mild hybrid fills gaps in the engines detuned performance, up to the stock power numbers, not over.. this would account for the poor exhaust sound. It's the whole point of the mild hybrid, a less powerful and quiet motor propped up by an electric motor. I've spoken at length with a BMW tech on this.
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