[E90330iS]

That mustang is really mean though, although I can not see myself owning a domestic car at all.

[Herknav]

It always makes me laugh when supposed performance enthusiast's first knock on a car is interior...

[Chunga]

Its often says something of the quality and the craftsmanship thats put in the rest of the car.

[Herknav]

Possibly... but more likely (especially these days) it is a cop-out from people that don't know any better... the inferiority of domestic quality control is a myth. It is a leftover from the "bad old days" and import manufacturers are only too happy to keep that myth alive, it sells thier cars.

But the "funny" still stands. If you are judging a car based on performance and the first thing out of your gob is "the interior sucks" you must have not found anything else to complain about... and in that case... sucky interior... fine... compared to another 20 grand to get the "higher ground" that is a 3 series? How much is your comfort worth, especially when you are purchasing a car based on its performance charecteristics? Tell me, where else will you get a 300 hp sports car for $26k NEW?

As a basic rule, BMW owners are snobs, and they want justification that thier purchase was the right purchase. So when someone shows them a cheaper but just as good alternative, they have to find something wrong with it, otherwise they only bought their car for the name. So they throw the "the interior is crap" and "I will never own a domestic" and "it felt so cheep when I sat in it"...

The only slightly valid argument here was about the solid rear axel... until you realize that the majority of those who make THAT the crux of thier automobile buying decision are already perfomance enthusiasts, and Ford aimed (and has aimed for a long time) the Mustang at the 1/4 mile crowd, who don't WANT an IRS because it weighs too much (just ask the 03-04 Cobra owners who switched from IRW to solid for the weight savings), not to mention it drops a grand or so off the price. The good news you can get it on the aftermarket.

Oh, and THAT is where the car truly shines. The "just buy a 335i and smoke Mustangs" statement is terribly ignorant. The aftermarket for the BMW is about the size of the Mustang aftermarket... for floor mats. All anyone here does is argue about piggybacks and reflashes... and a few put downpipes in. Visit even the lamest Mustang forum and you find people building engines, installing blowers, turbos, nitrous, long tube headers, CAIs, underdrive pulleys, full suspenions, full brake kits, etc... and all on a car already as fast or faster stock than the stock 335i...

I digress... to the OP, if you want some real fun, a chance to get your hand really dirty, and a feeling of acomplishment, do as some others here have recomended, go get an older V8 and work on it. If you still want a Mustang, get a Fox body and go to town. You can get those things for damned cheep, and the aftermaket is flooded with parts. And in the end, you can have a 10 second car for $15k.

As a final, the Mustang and Camero and Firebird are not muscle cars, they are pony cars... no big blocks...

[Chunga]

Your right in all you say - but - it depends on how you look at it and what you demands are. I can se only few in here are doing tracks. The car is for show off - and for the feeling, the history and the look and spirit. If we are talking about engineering you cant rejekt that the BMW is way over the Mustang.
You write germany as location. Then you also know what cars the US made cars are up against here in Europe. And why they always are loosing when it comes to markets share.
We are spoiled with good quality. We demand good quality. And especial when are car costs 100.000 USD - you dont expect it to look like its bought in Toys are Us. And brake down every week. (say no more)
Take a guess why toyota is big in US.

Btw - this is a BMW fansite. So dont expect anything else.

[Herknav]

Ahh, but the original poster is from California...

The Mustang is very expensive here in Europe. But it is not expensive at all in the US (ask yourself why that is the case, pay close attention to the EU import laws).

You mention look and history... the Mustang has roots back to 1964. How many cars does ANY other car maker make that are that old? And I am not talking about makes, I am about models. Find me a BMW that has been continually made and updated since 1964.... go ahead.

The OP didn't ask about popular cars in Europe, he wanted to know where he stood in the BMW comunity for asking about getting a Mustang to mod... and he got the answer that he wanted... otherwise he would not have asked it in a BMW forum.

Europeans ask for good quality... because if you don't, you can't drive the car on the road, as the inspectors will not let you. Euros don't realize that Americans can put almost any piece of junk on the road and use it... how are the auto manufactueres motivated?

BUT, I will say that my 05 GT has been without a problem. That equals it with my 02 WRX and my 08 335xi... so in my eyes, which is better?

This is a BMW fanbooi site, I have no illusions. I expect to see the harpys hovering sooner than not. But it doesn't fade the truth.

For you Euros, if my crappy low- quality Ford is so bad, why would it be worth more HERE than in the US???

[Chowbow]

Buy an 03/04 Cobra. Regardless of what most members here say how crap they are and how a 335 is just about as fast, you can't spend a few bucks on a 335 and make it run mid 11s all day long. Plus, the 335 is crazy expensive in the first place in comparison to a used Mustang.

If I found a well done 03/04 Cobra at a good price, I'd pick it up and do a few mods to it. It would embarass most 335s, even modded ones, while it's stock. And that car would be far from stock and be a very streetable low 11 second driver.

[Herknav]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

Buy an 03/04 Cobra. Regardless of what most members here say how crap they are and how a 335 is just about as fast, you can't spend a few bucks on a 335 and make it run mid 11s all day long. Plus, the 335 is crazy expensive in the first place in comparison to a used Mustang.

If I found a well done 03/04 Cobra at a good price, I'd pick it up and do a few mods to it. It would embarass most 335s, even modded ones, while it's stock. And that car would be far from stock and be a very streetable low 11 second driver.

Thanks for the support brutha, the "true believers" are pretty blind to the truth...

If I wanted a street killer, a 03-04 Corbra would be the heat... that thing is a monster.

[Chunga]

Down to basic - the Pony is impressive. But its also a joke. You cant drive it and look serious at the same time. There are something for the eye - but to much. I l am an european. US cars simply hurt my eyes. And that goes for most of us. Thats why they never had sat food in this continent. The 300C is trying with a VW diesel engine. But its to big - to heavy and to ugly. Comfort is a town in russia and stering is ............
Goes for manny of these exports tryout.
But i am also a psyko europeen. I wold love to have a brand new Mustang GT. It turnes me on. However. I dont think i would drive in it.
It turnes me on like a dirty whore. Yes - wow - but marry the bitch - never.
Ford is also an expensive car in Europe - yes. But its also quality - if its not build in England with crappy and cheap thin doors and ... no - i did it again. sorry.
Cobra - nice. And 20 other cars. But thats not the issue in here.
Anyway. Cobra is wery wery nice quality . If you mean the AC.

[AWD Addict]

Great, fun cars to mod and drive. Exterior is awesome. Cabin is a disaster.

[Chunga]

Cabin is wery simple. But its the feeling. And there we have to give Herknav right. Its not always about quality. Only if its the car you use on daily basis.

[Chowbow]

The only quality that matters in that car is how the motor, drivetrain, and powertrain hold up. Nobody buys an 03/04 Cobra for the interior because it's crap and everyone knows it's crap. They care that it is fast and has all the underpinnings like forged internals and a "tried and trued" (read: people know where to fix the old POS chassis weakpoints) to make lots of HP with easy mods. A cold air intake alone bumps that car to 400RWHP.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Herknav

Possibly... but more likely (especially these days) it is a cop-out from people that don't know any better... the inferiority of domestic quality control is a myth. It is a leftover from the "bad old days" and import manufacturers are only too happy to keep that myth alive, it sells thier cars.

But the "funny" still stands. If you are judging a car based on performance and the first thing out of your gob is "the interior sucks" you must have not found anything else to complain about... and in that case... sucky interior... fine... compared to another 20 grand to get the "higher ground" that is a 3 series? How much is your comfort worth, especially when you are purchasing a car based on its performance charecteristics? Tell me, where else will you get a 300 hp sports car for $26k NEW?

As a basic rule, BMW owners are snobs, and they want justification that thier purchase was the right purchase. So when someone shows them a cheaper but just as good alternative, they have to find something wrong with it, otherwise they only bought their car for the name. So they throw the "the interior is crap" and "I will never own a domestic" and "it felt so cheep when I sat in it"...

The only slightly valid argument here was about the solid rear axel... until you realize that the majority of those who make THAT the crux of thier automobile buying decision are already perfomance enthusiasts, and Ford aimed (and has aimed for a long time) the Mustang at the 1/4 mile crowd, who don't WANT an IRS because it weighs too much (just ask the 03-04 Cobra owners who switched from IRW to solid for the weight savings), not to mention it drops a grand or so off the price. The good news you can get it on the aftermarket.

Oh, and THAT is where the car truly shines. The "just buy a 335i and smoke Mustangs" statement is terribly ignorant. The aftermarket for the BMW is about the size of the Mustang aftermarket... for floor mats. All anyone here does is argue about piggybacks and reflashes... and a few put downpipes in. Visit even the lamest Mustang forum and you find people building engines, installing blowers, turbos, nitrous, long tube headers, CAIs, underdrive pulleys, full suspenions, full brake kits, etc... and all on a car already as fast or faster stock than the stock 335i...

I digress... to the OP, if you want some real fun, a chance to get your hand really dirty, and a feeling of acomplishment, do as some others here have recomended, go get an older V8 and work on it. If you still want a Mustang, get a Fox body and go to town. You can get those things for damned cheep, and the aftermaket is flooded with parts. And in the end, you can have a 10 second car for $15k.

As a final, the Mustang and Camero and Firebird are not muscle cars, they are pony cars... no big blocks...

actually the interior does have a play in performance...think about it before you go on another tangent.....and by the way....i eat mustangs for breakfast, lunch and dinner....just ask the punk who was driving a 63 fastback....it sounded fast....looked fast...but after smoking it by 3 car lengths....i gave him a head start by two car lenghts and by the time I hit 4th gear....he was slamming his fists against his skinny, plastic steering wheel!

[silvrevo]

I love those F-150 mirrors they put on them mustangs,,,,,,,,

Where are the designers at that moment in time?

O yea,,,,, its american.

But really if you look at it,,, the GT is a 335 from almost all angles.

Go for the v-8, I think they also come with a lsd.

[Herknav]

Originally Posted by shiggy

actually the interior does have a play in performance...think about it before you go on another tangent.....and by the way....i eat mustangs for breakfast, lunch and dinner....just ask the punk who was driving a 63 fastback....it sounded fast....looked fast...but after smoking it by 3 car lengths....i gave him a head start by two car lenghts and by the time I hit 4th gear....he was slamming his fists against his skinny, plastic steering wheel!

Talk about tangents... I think you need to do a little more research.

The first model year mustang was a 64 1/2 So I doubt you raced a 63 fast back.

But back to the interior... if interior had ANYTHIING to do with performance, don't you think NASCAR would have leather seats and covered dashs?

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by silvrevo

I love those F-150 mirrors they put on them mustangs,,,,,,,,

Where are the designers at that moment in time?

O yea,,,,, its american.

But really if you look at it,,, the GT is a 335 from almost all angles.

Go for the v-8, I think they also come with a lsd.

lol.....

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Herknav

Talk about tangents... I think you need to do a little more research.

The first model year mustang was a 64 1/2 So I doubt you raced a 63 fast back.

But back to the interior... if interior had ANYTHIING to do with performance, don't you think NASCAR would have leather seats and covered dashs?

sorry about that...i meant 69 fast back...nice car...dont get me wrong...also loved his interior....(think he called it pony interior which is supposed to be rare)
he spent 10k on the motor alone...so he was quite shocked that i smoked him so bad.
when making reference to interior, it refers to anything in the cab of the car.....which also means shifter...steering wheel...placement of pedals...which all have a baring on the performance of the car.

[Herknav]

You're referring to ergonomics then. And not to nitpick, but that has no bearing on the performance of the car, it has a bearing on the performance of the person driving the car. But then, no car is better than the driver.

BTW, all mustangs are not created equal. You're comparing a car with a 2 year run to a car with a 42 year run. In that stretch you have some of the worst decisions ever (Mustang II anyone?), to some of the best. And as you touched on, the aftermarket just makes it even more complicated. So your "I eat mustangs for breakfast lunch and dinner" is a pretty grandious statement with no actual meat.

I have both cars, and it isn't even a contest, my stang is way faster in every respect than my 335, and for less money.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Herknav

You're referring to ergonomics then. And not to nitpick, but that has no bearing on the performance of the car, it has a bearing on the performance of the person driving the car. But then, no car is better than the driver.

BTW, all mustangs are not created equal. You're comparing a car with a 2 year run to a car with a 42 year run. In that stretch you have some of the worst decisions ever (Mustang II anyone?), to some of the best. And as you touched on, the aftermarket just makes it even more complicated. So your "I eat mustangs for breakfast lunch and dinner" is a pretty grandious statement with no actual meat.

I have both cars, and it isn't even a contest, my stang is way faster in every respect than my 335, and for less money.

actually its not that far off the mark....my "grandious (actually its grandiose) statement....is true...early morning drive to work....smoked a GT mustang...off the line and thru the gears to 4th....where he gave up.....early evening coming from a movie...again....another shit kickin...stock 335 against stock GT mustang....your right ....it isnt even a contest...335i prevailed!
and im sure there are a boat load of 335i owners that can attest to the same results.
here are some stats:
2007 335i coupe vs 2007 GT Mustang
335i:
4.8 sec 0-60
gt stang
5.3 sec 0-60

335i
13.5 105 mph 1/4mile
gt stang
13.9 103 mph 1/4 mile

335i
68 mph slalom speed
gt stang
65 mph slalom speed

335i
115 ft 60-0 braking
gt stang
133 ft 60-0 braking
need i go on....
by the way, pedal placement has more to do than ergonomics....how your feet work the clutch, gas and brake are critical (heel/toe)....and the shifter in a GT Mustang!!!!.....long sloppy throws.....nothing to do with performance???
hmmmm.......ok....i give up.....you win!
Mustangs forever!!!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Z06_Socrates

I agree with a lot of what you have said.
This is a BMW fanboy site, so don't expect to find many impartial observers.

There are people in the main E90 forum claiming that an E92 could smoke a C5 Z06. Seriously this site has some children running around.

"this is a BMW fanboy site"......no shit....its a BMW forum!!
if Ford had a forum....you would have people raving about Ford.
this is one of the best forums on the net....and thats why you see so many non bmw owners on this site.

[Elijaih]

Originally Posted by shiggy

here are some stats:
2007 335i coupe vs 2007 GT Mustang
335i:
4.8 sec 0-60
gt stang
5.3 sec 0-60

335i
13.5 105 mph 1/4mile
gt stang
13.9 103 mph 1/4 mile

335i
68 mph slalom speed
gt stang
65 mph slalom speed

335i
115 ft 60-0 braking
gt stang
133 ft 60-0 braking
need i go on....

I'm curious to where you found those stats, it looks like manufacture's claim for the Mustang and actual numbers for the 335i. It would be nice to give where you came up with those numbers to make sure they are accurate and not taking the worst for mustang and best for 335i, which looks like you did to a degree...

I have seen 0-60's for 335i's as slow as 5.3, on average I find them at 4.9/5.0 0-60. For the mustang I find on average of 5.1 for 0-60. R/T tested the mustang at 4.9 for 0-60. The 1/4 is probably about accurate, but R/T again tested the mustang at 13.5 for the 1/4 mile. Since they are so close, it's a drivers race.

The 335i is slightly faster than the mustang, but a 335i wouldn't smoke a mustang, unless the mustang driver doesn't know how to drive or it isn't a v8 in the mustang.

[Herknav]

Originally Posted by shiggy

actually its not that far off the mark....my "grandious (actually its grandiose) statement....is true...early morning drive to work....smoked a GT mustang...off the line and thru the gears to 4th....where he gave up.....early evening coming from a movie...again....another shit kickin...stock 335 against stock GT mustang....your right ....it isnt even a contest...335i prevailed!
and im sure there are a boat load of 335i owners that can attest to the same results.
here are some stats:
2007 335i coupe vs 2007 GT Mustang
335i:
4.8 sec 0-60
gt stang
5.3 sec 0-60

335i
13.5 105 mph 1/4mile
gt stang
13.9 103 mph 1/4 mile

335i
68 mph slalom speed
gt stang
65 mph slalom speed

335i
115 ft 60-0 braking
gt stang
133 ft 60-0 braking
need i go on....
by the way, pedal placement has more to do than ergonomics....how your feet work the clutch, gas and brake are critical (heel/toe)....and the shifter in a GT Mustang!!!!.....long sloppy throws.....nothing to do with performance???
hmmmm.......ok....i give up.....you win!
Mustangs forever!!!

Lots of unsupported information here. Where did you get your numbers/link?


You are suffering from fanboism I think. You are driving a car that has the same HP and TQ numbers as the stang, but is heavier. Stock for stock, equal drivers, that spells slower. As I said earlier, BMW owners want thier cars to be faster because if they aren't, then they paid an extra $20k for a name.

I don't blame you, I used to think the same way. But after owning several different cars and growing a little, I have learned quite a bit. There are always trade-offs.