[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I own E84 and had the new F48 for six months on the job.
You have no ideea what are you talking about.
My wife will probably knock you down with her non car-enthusiast comments. She was bang on when comparing the two X1's. And she doesnt want the new X1 "under any circumstances" because is lazy, instable and without guts". That's aside from mechanics and other closed involved professionals that are sharing the same opinion.
And no, it is far from best in class. FAR. Please do your homework.

If you need a list with cheapness aproach and shortcuts done on this car, (aside from FWD haldex and less HP, or boaty ride compared with the E84) let me know, I will gladly make it for you, including pictures to show you where the value is and how cheap and shitty that vehicle is.
To say that a sedan platform with a RWD biased transmission is worse than a tall Suv with Haldex you must lack some basic knowledge.
Aslo, since we are talking math, keep in mind that in US the E84 was very shortly lived. Canada had it one year ahead of you while my family in Europe was running the vehicle for more thean four years ahead of you. Of course is less seen or acknowledged.

Also, you have no ideea what a great deal the E84 was. A fully loaded X1 (3 Series) bought for less than a medium 3 Series Touring, just to have people on board. It was a lot of car for the money. And in here I am talking good materials and better fit and finish than F84 will ever have.

Secondly, the 335 Hp engine is a shame, BMW used to rule this game, no more.
For a 3 series or 2 series (if is lighter and not like M2 versus M3) is a good engine; for a boat like the new X5 and keeping mind the others, is a SHAME.

Leave the math aside, I was not talking about the old X5, I was talking about the 335 engine card that is overplayed and is not even something that you can call even refeshing not to mention a benchmark.

Never thought I will walk in an Audi dealership, yet today, after more than 17 years, I was looking at the S5. That tells me a lot. Also, the guy showed me by what margin they beat BMW in sales. Yeah, I hate to admit it but they have a nice product, with nice no fake sound and more powerful for less money...

You hit the nail on the head. I purchased my E84 X1 because it was the closest thing in the BMW lineup to an E36 M3 sedan. I was also getting rid of a large SUV ( Expediton) and the E84 X1 has been an awesome commuter.

I was able to sample several X1, X3 and F30 3er models while dropping my 1M off for routine services and the and X1 was the most fun. I even prefer the little sdrive 28 because I'm not going to pretend I'll ever need 4WD and i don't need a sports car for my daily. With full tread Michelin AS3+ it will go anywhere I need to go.

[cy07]

Why not connect the headlamp to the grill and keep similar shape of taillight? The G05 definitely takes a step back from F15.

[sward]

Price in Sweden

F15
35i 647,200 sek
30d 634,200 sek
M50d 869,200 sek

G05
40i 672,800 sek
30d 659,800 sek
M50d 894,800 sek

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

well then... you're just saying, if you fully spec out a car, you can easily add $8000 to the base price from interior items alone. This isn't new, it's already happening.

The sky is blue, it's been blue for a while.

So basically, we agree.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by usmabmass

So what is your point exactly? Is that you're unhappy that they show options? Uh.. is your X5 barebones stock?

Do you even own an X5? I'm a bit confused.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by shragon

IMHO, BMW screwed up on those tail lights. Kinda generic looking.

F15 tails are so much nicer.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by advantage20

So the 550i became M550i but the X5 50i didn't turn into X5 M50i to match the M50d. Or will it at LCI?

Good point!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by visualguy

I'm not sure about this mild hybrid stuff... Seems a bit like a Rube Goldberg machine. Some reviews I've seen of M-B mild hybrid cars mentioned that there was still some lag, and the fuel economy wasn't significantly better. I think the jury is still out on this. Also, I would give this stuff some time for the inevitable issues to be fixed before buying.

Hardly Reuben Garrett Lucius Goldberg - very straightforward to put a motor generator between the engine and tranny - many manufacturers do it. Like it or not, this is where the industry is headed on the way to complete electrification some day.

[usmabmass]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Do you even own an X5? I'm a bit confused.

What are you confused about? You wanted to complain about the car's interior being deceiving, got called on it, made up a thing about how you didn't like that it had options... why does whether or not I own an old X5 matter?

If it satisfies you, I drive a 550i and yesterday I cancelled my order on a new M550i because I like this new design direction so much.

[advantage20]

The German catalog:

https://www.bmw.de/content/dam/bmw/m...8297179479.pdf

[BALL3N]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Why would I read the original post again if you just answered the question? Love you snarky forum dudes. Like it's all that's going on in your life, to catch every detail lol

Really? I'm barely on here, I'm just awake when I read.

[jtd]

So where is the Bowers & Wilkins Surround Sound 3D system in this catalogue ?!

[40080]

Originally Posted by advantage20

The German catalog:

https://www.bmw.de/content/dam/bmw/m...8297179479.pdf

Is there a UK version Available?

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I own E84 and had the new F48 for six months on the job.
You have no ideea what are you talking about.
My wife will probably knock you down with her non car-enthusiast comments. She was bang on when comparing the two X1’s. And she doesnt want the new X1 “under any circumstances” because is lazy, instable and without guts”. That’s aside from mechanics and other closed involved professionals that are sharing the same opinion.
And no, it is far from best in class. FAR. Please do your homework.

If you need a list with cheapness aproach and shortcuts done on this car, (aside from FWD haldex and less HP, or boaty ride compared with the E84) let me know, I will gladly make it for you, including pictures to show you where the value is and how cheap and shitty that vehicle is.
To say that a sedan platform with a RWD biased transmission is worse than a tall Suv with Haldex you must lack some basic knowledge.
Aslo, since we are talking math, keep in mind that in US the E84 was very shortly lived. Canada had it one year ahead of you while my family in Europe was running the vehicle for more thean four years ahead of you. Of course is less seen or acknowledged.

Also, you have no ideea what a great deal the E84 was. A fully loaded X1 (3 Series) bought for less than a medium 3 Series Touring, just to have people on board. It was a lot of car for the money. And in here I am talking good materials and better fit and finish than F84 will ever have.

Secondly, the 335 Hp engine is a shame, BMW used to rule this game, no more.
For a 3 series or 2 series (if is lighter and not like M2 versus M3) is a good engine; for a boat like the new X5 and keeping mind the others, is a SHAME.

Leave the math aside, I was not talking about the old X5, I was talking about the 335 engine card that is overplayed and is not even something that you can call even refeshing not to mention a benchmark.

Never thought I will walk in an Audi dealership, yet today, after more than 17 years, I was looking at the S5. That tells me a lot. Also, the guy showed me by what margin they beat BMW in sales. Yeah, I hate to admit it but they have a nice product, with nice no fake sound and more powerful for less money...

I am very well versed on what the X1 is today and what it used to be, thank you. You just proved my point. You don't like the new X1 because anecdotally, you had the old one, and you wish that same vehicle still existed. But it doesn't. It's that class of vehicle you don't like, and as I said, that's fine. Your priorities for what you want a car in that segment to be are not the priorities for the majority of people looking at cars in that segment. I stand by my statement that the new X1 is better at what it needs to be than the old one was, and in the X1/GLA/Q3/E Pace class, it's best in segment. It wins comparisons, it wins awards, and it sells. Is it as dynamic as the old one? No. And you can hate it because it's not the old one that you owned and loved. But the old one was almost comically useless as an SUV because of that platform. It had almost no cargo space, and you certainly weren't putting four normal sized humans in one for any extended period of time. The current one rides better, is more comfortable, looks better, and can actually fit four humans and their stuff. And whether you like it or not, those are the things that class of car need to do. Those are the things the majority of buyers look for. You're in a small minority, acting as if everyone should see things the way you do. They don't. The numbers speak for themselves.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by JRobUSC

I am very well versed on what the X1 is today and what it used to be, thank you. You just proved my point. You don't like the new X1 because anecdotally, you had the old one, and you wish that same vehicle still existed. But it doesn't. It's that class of vehicle you don't like, and as I said, that's fine. Your priorities for what you want a car in that segment to be are not the priorities for the majority of people looking at cars in that segment. I stand by my statement that the new X1 is better at what it needs to be than the old one was, and in the X1/GLA/Q3/E Pace class, it's best in segment. It wins comparisons, it wins awards, and it sells. Is it as dynamic as the old one? No. And you can hate it because it's not the old one that you owned and loved. But the old one was almost comically useless as an SUV because of that platform. It had almost no cargo space, and you certainly weren't putting four normal sized humans in one for any extended period of time. The current one rides better, is more comfortable, looks better, and can actually fit four humans and their stuff. And whether you like it or not, those are the things that class of car need to do. Those are the things the majority of buyers look for. You're in a small minority, acting as if everyone should see things the way you do. They don't. The numbers speak for themselves.

- I don’t use to own the old one, I own the old one. The second one that arrived in Canada and bought in some special circumstances when nobody knew in here what this is.
- I like the E84 and truly wanted to like the new one. Can not. There is no comparison between the two. While the old one was a 3 Series (bread and butter for BMW) with nice fit and finish, the new one is so cheap and terrible built that really was succesful at building the cheap niche of X1. And LOL is not more confortable, please try the old seats versus the toilet seating position and the narrow dimensions of new seats and get back to us. A little bigger person wont fit in those seats. The back seat of E84 is a full couch with no delimitations while the new one is less seats and even no C pillar Soft upholstery. Ergonomy is terrible as well, please use the old one and its shifter and get into the new one and see how everything is. Also drive the E84 on a long trip and the new one with no leg support and see how you feel after that. I know very well how both behave on long trips.
- driving is not better, is slow, is boaty, is lazy,
- in terms of looks I love mine, is a matter of taste. As a note I dont dislike the look (exterior only!) of the new one either. Interior, the old one rules hands down.
- X1 was never a super family car. It is perfect for my needs and my family size. Otherwise I will look further to something that will fit my needs. Old X1 and new X1 are not vehicle for a family, but they are good comuters for one or two individuals or families with one or even two kids. This comment is futile for me anyway and has the same value as a comment made by a sedan guy towards a Coupe guy. Different needs, different choices.
- obviously you come again with the “numbers talk”. I have no ideea what numbers are you talking about. If ee talk about technical numbers, the old one takes the crap out of new one. If you talk sales, again, in your market was shortly lived. So, use your common sense.
- from driving dynamics, handling, road feeling and response, HPS versus EPS, power, road behaviour, quality, fit and finish, nice sound system with nice speakers, dual subs, amplifier, equalizer, proper sunshade, etc, etc, technical aproach, fun factor, lower COG, RWD transmission with TRUE Xdrive and not SHITTY HALDEX, there is no comparison.

If I want a Haldex I can buy a better car for less money. Lots of them out there.

But, I will close the conversation here, obviously, all you do is chit chat in here with generic ideas, ignoring technical facts and what makes a BMW a BMW. The new x1 is not one, sorry.

But I leave you with your poor thoughts, bottom line, this proves why and how people lbuy those things and doesnt bother me at all. Not everybody is into technical or really feels a car. For many is just a new thing and has the right badge.... That’s fine. Case closed for me.


Cheers!

[Bimar]

So no more wood on the doors, more cost cutting..

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by Tracus

- I don’t use to own the old one, I own the old one. The second one that arrived in Canada and bought in some special circumstances when nobody knew in here what this is.
- I like the E84 and truly wanted to like the new one. Can not. There is no comparison between the two. While the old one was a 3 Series (bread and butter for BMW) with nice fit and finish, the new one is so cheap and terrible built that really was succesful at building the cheap niche of X1. And LOL is not more confortable, please try the old seats versus the toilet seating position and the narrow dimensions of new seats and get back to us. A little bigger person wont fit in those seats. The back seat of E84 is a full couch with no delimitations while the new one is less seats and even no C pillar Soft upholstery. Ergonomy is terrible as well, please use the old one and its shifter and get into the new one and see how everything is. Also drive the E84 on a long trip and the new one with no leg support and see how you feel after that. I know very well how both behave on long trips.
- driving is not better, is slow, is boaty, is lazy,
- in terms of looks I love mine, is a matter of taste. As a note I dont dislike the look (exterior only!) of the new one either. Interior, the old one rules hands down.
- X1 was never a super family car. It is perfect for my needs and my family size. Otherwise I will look further to something that will fit my needs. Old X1 and new X1 are not vehicle for a family, but they are good comuters for one or two individuals or families with one or even two kids. This comment is futile for me anyway and has the same value as a comment made by a sedan guy towards a Coupe guy. Different needs, different choices.
- obviously you come again with the “numbers talk”. I have no ideea what numbers are you talking about. If ee talk about technical numbers, the old one takes the crap out of new one. If you talk sales, again, in your market was shortly lived. So, use your common sense.
- from driving dynamics, handling, road feeling and response, HPS versus EPS, power, road behaviour, quality, fit and finish, nice sound system with nice speakers, dual subs, amplifier, equalizer, proper sunshade, etc, etc, technical aproach, fun factor, lower COG, RWD transmission with TRUE Xdrive and not SHITTY HALDEX, there is no comparison.

If I want a Haldex I can buy a better car for less money. Lots of them out there.

But, I will close the conversation here, obviously, all you do is chit chat in here with generic ideas, ignoring technical facts and what makes a BMW a BMW. The new x1 is not one, sorry.

But I leave you with your poor thoughts, bottom line, this proves why and how people lbuy those things and doesnt bother me at all. Not everybody is into technical or really feels a car. For many is just a new thing and has the right badge.... That’s fine. Case closed for me.


Cheers!

Ah yes, name calling and patronization. The hallmarks of a debate lost. You don’t like the new one because you have the old one. Again, as I’ve said repeatedly, you are not representative of the buying public. Your needs and likes don’t outweigh reality. You keep bringing up the short lifecycle in NA for the old one. Let’s remove the lifecycle — the new one outsells the old one substantially on a per month basis. The first three years with the new one far exceed ANY three year stretch with the old one. They don’t even have to be successive years with the old one. Pick ANY three. They’ll lose to the first three years with the new one. So again, you want to wax poetic about the old one and call anyone who disagrees an uninformed idiot who needs to “get off my lawn!!!!” That’s fine. The new X1 isn’t perfect. I don’t like the shifter either. It’s just better at being what a subcompact luxury SUV needs to be than the old one was. And you know how I know this? It’s not just the sales numbers. It’s that NO ONE ELSE MADE A COPYCAT OF THAT OLD X1. No one. It’s gone now, and no one else recreated it. So go ahead and name call. Threaten to leave the brand over the heresy that is the new X1. Go ahead. You’re not getting that X1 again from anyone else, because it doesn’t exist. It wasn’t a winning formula. It was too small, too firm, too ugly, too chintzy, too LOTS of things. It appealed to a very small subset of buyers, not enough of them to continue making the car that way. Some of those folks might be loud and obnoxious, but they’re still a tiny group. And Bmw, as a brand, is better off with a successful new X1 that wins comparison tests and sells in droves than they were selling that tiny wagon to you handfuls of people. Cheers back at you, mate.

[GregW / Oregon]

OT, maybe?

[SamS]

Originally Posted by visualguy

I'm not sure about this mild hybrid stuff... Seems a bit like a Rube Goldberg machine. Some reviews I've seen of M-B mild hybrid cars mentioned that there was still some lag, and the fuel economy wasn't significantly better. I think the jury is still out on this. Also, I would give this stuff some time for the inevitable issues to be fixed before buying. In other words, the lack of this technology isn't one of the things that bother me about the new X5... I just wish they had kept the dimensions of the outgoing model.

BMW has been doing hybrids for a long time. The ActiveHybrid 3, 5, and 7 basically worked like this.

[nate670]

Originally Posted by balasa0731

There you go

Looks good with the black grill.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by JRobUSC

Ah yes, name calling and patronization. The hallmarks of a debate lost. You don’t like the new one because you have the old one. Again, as I’ve said repeatedly, you are not representative of the buying public. Your needs and likes don’t outweigh reality. You keep bringing up the short lifecycle in NA for the old one. Let’s remove the lifecycle — the new one outsells the old one substantially on a per month basis. The first three years with the new one far exceed ANY three year stretch with the old one. They don’t even have to be successive years with the old one. Pick ANY three. They’ll lose to the first three years with the new one. So again, you want to wax poetic about the old one and call anyone who disagrees an uninformed idiot who needs to “get off my lawn!!!!” That’s fine. The new X1 isn’t perfect. I don’t like the shifter either. It’s just better at being what a subcompact luxury SUV needs to be than the old one was. And you know how I know this? It’s not just the sales numbers. It’s that NO ONE ELSE MADE A COPYCAT OF THAT OLD X1. No one. It’s gone now, and no one else recreated it. So go ahead and name call. Threaten to leave the brand over the heresy that is the new X1. Go ahead. You’re not getting that X1 again from anyone else, because it doesn’t exist. It wasn’t a winning formula. It was too small, too firm, too ugly, too chintzy, too LOTS of things. It appealed to a very small subset of buyers, not enough of them to continue making the car that way. Some of those folks might be loud and obnoxious, but they’re still a tiny group. And Bmw, as a brand, is better off with a successful new X1 that wins comparison tests and sells in droves than they were selling that tiny wagon to you handfuls of people. Cheers back at you, mate.

I lost no debate mate. Your arguments and non technical chit chat are really childish.

First of all, the sales number says nothing about the value of a vehicle from the technical point of view. Toyota sells a lot of shity simple junk, but it doesn’t mean is a “good formula” vehicle. Corolla is the example of mediocrity, actually is a very shitty car but it was reliable and good for non knowleadgeable people ( you know, those ones that “represent the buying public”). A to B proper moving umbrella, nothing more.

I dont like the new one because I have the old one? Didn’t I say that wanted to like the new one? I can not afford the new one or what the heck are you insinuating?
You have no ideea what I have in my garage so stop insinuating things that you have no clue about.
The new one is cheap in every aspect and don’t see value in it. I think I have a good level of knowledge in the field and can see where is value and where not. A Haldex is still a haldex, cheap material is still cheap material and cuting corners is cuting corners.
I have and had all kind of cars but that doesnt stop me to criticise them when that is the truth.

In conformity with your poor logic, all the good vehicles that did not sell were not “a winning formula”. History of automobile is full of extraordinary vehicles that did not sell, yet many are selling now for millions of dollars. X1 was sold in excellent numbers, especially Europe. North America likes tanks and boat vehicles while Europe likes small, nimble and fast vehicles (no cupholders please). The new X1 looks bigger and has a different presence. The old X1 was sold in very good numbers. Widen your spectrum, US is not the center of the world.

Now since you brought it up, yes, this is a very poor argument to bring in or rely on to justify a vehicle’s success.
Depends what success. If you want a successful vehicle go and buy the RAV 4. What are you doing here?
Has four wheels, one steering wheel and takes care properly of “four people and their belongings”.

No one makes a copycat of the X1? LOL man, you make me laugh really hard, actually all your arguments made my day!
How many copycats of old vehicles do you see usually?
Anyway, do you realize that you are praising a UKL FWd platform over a 3 Series RWD platform?
So, as a conclusion, now do you understand that is A LOT cheaper (while the new X1 still started with over $2000 more) to produce the new X1 using a UKL Mini platform, since the 3 Series is a total different league?
Now you understand why the E84 was a bargain for the money and drives much much better?
Or you will keep your uneducated opinion and will continue to claim that Mini is a better platform than 3 Series?

In here, many of us are puting accent on a lot of things and never on sale numbers. BMW is not a vehicle for a cold heart accountant but for a rebel that like the engine heartbeat, feelings, responsiveness, emotions.
It is not uncommon to hear that the old X1 gives back so much feeling and responsiveness while the new X1 is “sterile”.

Based on your comments all I can say is that you know nothing about the old X1.


Yeah, you can’t tell the difference. I get it.

[usmabmass]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I lost no debate mate. Your arguments and non technical chit chat are really childish.

First of all, the sales number says nothing about the value of a vehicle from the technical point of view. Toyota sells a lot of shity simple junk, but it doesn't mean is a "good formula" vehicle. Corolla is the example of mediocrity, actually is a very shitty car but it was reliable and good for non knowleadgeable people ( you know, those ones that "represent the buying public"). A to B proper moving umbrella, nothing more.

I dont like the new one because I have the old one? Didn't I say that wanted to like the new one? I can not afford the new one or what the heck are you insinuating?
You have no ideea what I have in my garage so stop insinuating things that you have no clue about.
The new one is cheap in every aspect and don't see value in it. I think I have a good level of knowledge in the field and can see where is value and where not. A Haldex is still a haldex, cheap material is still cheap material and cuting corners is cuting corners.
I have and had all kind of cars but that doesnt stop me to criticise them when that is the truth.

In conformity with your poor logic, all the good vehicles that did not sell were not "a winning formula". History of automobile is full of extraordinary vehicles that did not sell, yet many are selling now for millions of dollars. X1 was sold in excellent numbers, especially Europe. North America likes tanks and boat vehicles while Europe likes small, nimble and fast vehicles (no cupholders please). The new X1 looks bigger and has a different presence. The old X1 was sold in very good numbers. Widen your spectrum, US is not the center of the world.

Now since you brought it up, yes, this is a very poor argument to bring in or rely on to justify a vehicle's success.
Depends what success. If you want a successful vehicle go and buy the RAV 4. What are you doing here?
Has four wheels, one steering wheel and takes care properly of "four people and their belongings".

No one makes a copycat of the X1? LOL man, you make me laugh really hard, actually all your arguments made my day!
How many copycats of old vehicles do you see usually?
Anyway, do you realize that you are praising a UKL FWd platform over a 3 Series RWD platform?
So, as a conclusion, now do you understand that is A LOT cheaper (while the new X1 still started with over $2000 more) to produce the new X1 using a UKL Mini platform, since the 3 Series is a total different league?
Now you understand why the E84 was a bargain for the money and drives much much better?
Or you will keep your uneducated opinion and will continue to claim that Mini is a better platform than 3 Series?

In here, many of us are puting accent on a lot of things and never on sale numbers. BMW is not a vehicle for a cold heart accountant but for a rebel that like the engine heartbeat, feelings, responsiveness, emotions.
It is not uncommon to hear that the old X1 gives back so much feeling and responsiveness while the new X1 is "sterile".

Based on your comments all I can say is that you know nothing about the old X1.


Yeah, you can't tell the difference. I get it.

Will you grow up already. This is way off topic and you sound annoying as hell.

The old X1 is hideous, and way too cramped for its size. Sure it was probably more fun to drive than the new one, but not better than a 3 touring. So its worse than the 3 for fun, worse than the new x1 for utility.

But why are you even arguing about this in the G05 thread, besides trying to be condescending in your rambling post to your forum mates?