[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by natahoa

Agree with all.


So, insurance isn’t really paying for this - or any other accident. I am, and you are too.


It’s plastic. Probably less protective than a rubbermade fridge storage container. It just crumbled. I feel like telling the shop to not put another one on the car. It is totally useless. And costing me (ie my insurance) thousands.

I believe you may be confusing the term "bumper' with what you are seeing when you stand behind or in front of your car and look at it.

Bear with me here...bumpers used to be completely visible hunks of steel, right? Well back in the 50's and 60's they were but then in the 70's you started seeing big ugly black rubber pieces bolted onto the metal bumper to "extend" the bumper. This only served to make them fugly ugly and did little to protect them since the rubber pieces were only on two areas of the bumpers, see here what I mean in the pix.. .

If you look at the 1976 BMW 2002 in the pic, they tried to comply with the US Fed standard by extending their bumper out on collapsible plastic covered rods and then put accordion rubber pieces on the end sides to cover the gap to the body...ok, "maybe" it was better than the Dolly Parton look but it was still unsightly. I used to own one and hated that approach.

So, all auto mfg's selling to the US were under pressure to meet the ever changing Fed standards yet design appealing looking cars. So they simply covered the entire front end of the car with plastic shapes that hid the real bumpers beneath them, this is what you have today on your X5. What else could they do? So we have what we have today.

Go into any dealership today, any, and if you crawl under the front or rear of the new cars, you will see the real steel bumper hiding behind the external plastic covering. Well, you probably can't see it due to all the plastic covers under the car but you can if you go into a body shop and look at a new car. See bottom pix for the real metal bumper and your plastic covering for your X5.

Also, I've included a couple of pix showing the metal bumper behind the plastic cover on a domestic car (red one) and something you have probably seen a number of times on the road, a car with the corner of the bumper pushed in.

Yes, it causes a lot of expensive repair on any of today's cars, not just BMW. However, the cars look nice. In terms of your outlook on insurance, no question, we are all paying upfront for the unlikely chance we will need to use it. That's why I mentioned I was happy to have had the opportunity to use mine to pay 100% of my two BMW windshield replacements (0 deductible too). Thing is, you and I will always be paying for car insurance whether we use it or not, has nothing to do with what car we own. Here in NYS, we are not allowed to get license plates without first showing proof of insurance.

So divide the $8K repair cost, less any deductible, by your yearly insurance cost over the last decade and be happy that you are finally getting a chance to use it, maybe even break even
.

.

[dream54ing]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I believe you may be confusing the term "bumper' with what you are seeing when you stand behind or in front of your car and look at it.

Bear with me here...bumpers used to be completely visible hunks of steel, right? Well back in the 50's and 60's they were but then in the 70's you started seeing big ugly black rubber pieces bolted onto the metal bumper to "extend" the bumper. This only served to make them fugly ugly and did little to protect them since the rubber pieces were only on two areas of the bumpers, see here what I mean in the pix.. .

If you look at the 1976 BMW 2002 in the pic, they tried to comply with the US Fed standard by extending their bumper out on collapsible plastic covered rods and then put accordion rubber pieces on the end sides to cover the gap to the body...ok, "maybe" it was better than the Dolly Parton look but it was still unsightly. I used to own one and hated that approach.

So, all auto mfg's selling to the US were under pressure to meet the ever changing Fed standards yet design appealing looking cars. So they simply covered the entire front end of the car with plastic shapes that hid the real bumpers beneath them, this is what you have today on your X5. What else could they do? So we have what we have today.

Go into any dealership today, any, and if you crawl under the front or rear of the new cars, you will see the real steel bumper hiding behind the external plastic covering. Well, you probably can't see it due to all the plastic covers under the car but you can if you go into a body shop and look at a new car. See bottom pix for the real metal bumper and your plastic covering for your X5.

Also, I've included a couple of pix showing the metal bumper behind the plastic cover on a domestic car (red one) and something you have probably seen a number of times on the road, a car with the corner of the bumper pushed in.

Yes, it causes a lot of expensive repair on any of today's cars, not just BMW. However, the cars look nice. In terms of your outlook on insurance, no question, we are all paying upfront for the unlikely chance we will need to use it. That's why I mentioned I was happy to have had the opportunity to use mine to pay 100% of my two BMW windshield replacements (0 deductible too). Thing is, you and I will always be paying for car insurance whether we use it or not, has nothing to do with what car we own. Here in NYS, we are not allowed to get license plates without first showing proof of insurance.

So divide the $8K repair cost, less any deductible, by your yearly insurance cost over the last decade and be happy that you are finally getting a chance to use it, maybe even break even
.

.

Well explained!!

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by Tenac

Is your bumper damaged or just the cover? Do you have pics of the actual bumper behind the painted parts?

I don’t know. Hard to believe the car has a bumper behind the plastic. It didn’t help in the collision at all. The nhtsa document explains why. No regs or requirements, no bumper. Purely cosmetic.

[imyb]

The backup assistant or parking assistant doesn't work, I have tried it several times and it never takes the same route. If I were to let it do its thing, it would drive right into my gates every single time.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I believe you may be confusing the term "bumper' with what you are seeing when you stand behind or in front of your car and look at it.

Bear with me here...bumpers used to be completely visible hunks of steel, right? Well back in the 50's and 60's they were but then in the 70's you started seeing big ugly black rubber pieces bolted onto the metal bumper to "extend" the bumper. This only served to make them fugly ugly and did little to protect them since the rubber pieces were only on two areas of the bumpers, see here what I mean in the pix.. .

If you look at the 1976 BMW 2002 in the pic, they tried to comply with the US Fed standard by extending their bumper out on collapsible plastic covered rods and then put accordion rubber pieces on the end sides to cover the gap to the body...ok, "maybe" it was better than the Dolly Parton look but it was still unsightly. I used to own one and hated that approach.

So, all auto mfg's selling to the US were under pressure to meet the ever changing Fed standards yet design appealing looking cars. So they simply covered the entire front end of the car with plastic shapes that hid the real bumpers beneath them, this is what you have today on your X5. What else could they do? So we have what we have today.

Go into any dealership today, any, and if you crawl under the front or rear of the new cars, you will see the real steel bumper hiding behind the external plastic covering. Well, you probably can't see it due to all the plastic covers under the car but you can if you go into a body shop and look at a new car. See bottom pix for the real metal bumper and your plastic covering for your X5.

Also, I've included a couple of pix showing the metal bumper behind the plastic cover on a domestic car (red one) and something you have probably seen a number of times on the road, a car with the corner of the bumper pushed in.

Yes, it causes a lot of expensive repair on any of today's cars, not just BMW. However, the cars look nice. In terms of your outlook on insurance, no question, we are all paying upfront for the unlikely chance we will need to use it. That's why I mentioned I was happy to have had the opportunity to use mine to pay 100% of my two BMW windshield replacements (0 deductible too). Thing is, you and I will always be paying for car insurance whether we use it or not, has nothing to do with what car we own. Here in NYS, we are not allowed to get license plates without first showing proof of insurance.

So divide the $8K repair cost, less any deductible, by your yearly insurance cost over the last decade and be happy that you are finally getting a chance to use it, maybe even break even
.

.

Thanks Marty. As always you have valuable insight and invaluable experience.

Regardless of any rules or regs, a car maker always has a choice to make a better mousetrap. Clearly they choose not to. On a cheap car I can see why. On an expensive car we should all have higher expectations.

Yes and insurance is what it is. But to expect insurance companies to care if they are being ripped off simply isn’t in their best interest. Look what has happened to health insurance. In the mid 1990s, when everything changed, Insurance was supposed to be the gatekeeper that kept health care costs from skyrocketing.

Guess what? Skyrocketing health care costs are extremely profitable for insurance companies, as are skyrocketing repair costs on cars. Never gonna change until consumers demand that it changes. Being happy that your overpriced insurance will pay the outrageous repair bill is very good for their bottom line.

Don’t take this the wrong way. As always, I appreciate your input.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by imyb

The backup assistant or parking assistant doesn't work, I have tried it several times and it never takes the same route. If I were to let it do its thing, it would drive right into my gates every single time.

Actually they work extremely well, you should take yours in to get fixed since there must be an issue with your sensors, cameras, etc.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by natahoa

Regardless of any rules or regs, a car maker always has a choice to make a better mousetrap. Clearly they choose not to. On a cheap car I can see why. On an expensive car we should all have higher expectations.

You are so far off base it probably isn't worth our time to try and bring you back to reality so instead when you have some time do a little reading on the X5's safety rating with the IIHS and all of the safety features built into the vehicle. Good luck.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by imyb

The backup assistant or parking assistant doesn't work, I have tried it several times and it never takes the same route. If I were to let it do its thing, it would drive right into my gates every single time.

I’m thinking that could be very true. I’ve mostly used it to back out of my own driveway, which isn’t at all a tight fit. The one time I really needed it, it didn’t work. In all likelihood I did something wrong - I get that.

But it shouldn’t be that difficult to use. Also highly likely that BMW’s sloppy mismanagement of its tech features was a factor. It can be amusing when something about iDrive doesn’t work or is impossible to figure out, not so funny when it damages your car.

Sort of feels like Hal in 2001 Space Odyssey. Maybe it wanted to crash.

[imyb]

Interesting, mine has never taken the same path, I always have to intervene. I think it messes up when it has to do a full lock of the wheel which it doesn't do very well so I have to steer it myself eventually.

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Actually they work extremely well, you should take yours in to get fixed since there must be an issue with your sensors, cameras, etc.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Actually they work extremely well, you should take yours in to get fixed since there must be an issue with your sensors, cameras, etc.

The entire back end is getting replaced as far as I can tell. And it will get a software update. Am I confident this will fix what might or might not have been a problem with the car?

No. I’ll just be more careful and probably won’t use that feature, that I paid for, since I can’t trust it.

When it comes to cars, I have never been a brand loyalist. I’ve never owned a car as nice as my X5, but Iva also never owned anything remotely similar to it.

I’m retired. I hardly drive, but when I do, I want a car I can both enjoy and trust. Pretty much anything over $40k will be nicer than the cars I’ve driven all my life. Another BMW is not in the cards for me, this experience has soured me for life.

I’m heading for the truck store to kick a few bumpers.

As always I appreciate your valuable input. You help so many people on this forum. I think on this issue we need to agree to disagree.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by imyb

The backup assistant or parking assistant doesn't work, I have tried it several times and it never takes the same route. If I were to let it do its thing, it would drive right into my gates every single time.

*fistbump*
I appreciate the support

[imyb]

Do you happen to know what iDrive version your BMW was running?
I can tell you now, mine is March 2019 release and the park assistant doesn't work as it should. I have even seen an online review where someone set a course on his drive to show off the parking assistant and when it reversed it clipped one of cones, hence why I tested mine many times to find it does the same.

Originally Posted by natahoa

*fistbump*
I appreciate the support

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by imyb

... I think it messes up when it has to do a full lock of the wheel which it doesn't do very well ...

That's a brilliant observation and can now be tested! Sampled input storage of signals past normal limits or at limits is such a common bug category, I can totally see an engineer messing up that implementation and a QA team missing it if they didn't test pathological corner cases (again, very common to miss in testing).

Let's test this theory out. In a safe environment, maybe using plastic cones in an open parking lot, perform forward and auto-backup maneuvers both with and without hitting steering limit lock and observe result. I'll try to test this as soon as I get a chance.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by imyb

Do you happen to know what iDrive version your BMW was running?
I can tell you now, mine is March 2019 release and the park assistant doesn't work as it should. I have even seen an online review where someone set a course on his drive to show off the parking assistant and when it reversed it clipped one of cones, hence why I tested mine many times to find it does the same.

It was .44 and hasn’t changed since I got the car in June. It is supposed to be updated while in the shop. In September I got a confusing email from BMW that said a software update was available. For FREE!

[imyb]

Well I don't have much room to escape my drive as people park on the street thus I have to do a full lock to get out. I have done basic going forward and back and it works fine. I'll see if I can do some more testing at a quiet car park.

Originally Posted by LexxM3

That's a brilliant observation and can now be tested! Sampled input storage of signals past normal limits or at limits is such a common bug category, I can totally see an engineer messing up that implementation and a QA team missing it if they didn't test pathological corner cases (again, very common to miss in testing).

Let's test this theory out. In a safe environment, maybe using plastic cones in an open parking lot, perform forward and auto-backup maneuvers both with and without hitting steering limit lock and observe result. I'll try to test this as soon as I get a chance.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

That's a brilliant observation and can now be tested! Sampled input storage of signals past normal limits or at limits is such a common bug category, I can totally see an engineer messing up that implementation and a QA team missing it if they didn't test pathological corner cases (again, very common to miss in testing).

Let's test this theory out. In a safe environment, maybe using plastic cones in an open parking lot, perform forward and auto-backup maneuvers both with and without hitting steering limit lock and observe result. I'll try to test this as soon as I get a chance.

You are such a (wonderful) nut. I remember that thread with the cones and Barbie house. I tried it with my REAL house and the car hit it. Totally forgot about that.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by imyb

Well I don't have much room to escape my drive as people park on the street thus I have to do a full lock to get out. I have done basic going forward and back and it works fine. I'll see if I can do some more testing at a quiet car park.

I stayed in an Airbnb in Memphis in July and had to back onto a residential city street. The collision avoidance alerted me when cars were coming. First time I ever saw that. But I was backing out manually. I wasn’t aware of the backup assistant at that time.

Guess that was just plain lucky, or my car would still be sitting at some collision center in Memphis. Where apparently everything gets stolen.

Kinda gives me an idea ... only kidding.

[scottjays]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I believe you may be confusing the term "bumper' with what you are seeing when you stand behind or in front of your car and look at it.

Bear with me here...bumpers used to be completely visible hunks of steel, right? Well back in the 50's and 60's they were but then in the 70's you started seeing big ugly black rubber pieces bolted onto the metal bumper to "extend" the bumper. This only served to make them fugly ugly and did little to protect them since the rubber pieces were only on two areas of the bumpers, see here what I mean in the pix.. .

If you look at the 1976 BMW 2002 in the pic, they tried to comply with the US Fed standard by extending their bumper out on collapsible plastic covered rods and then put accordion rubber pieces on the end sides to cover the gap to the body...ok, "maybe" it was better than the Dolly Parton look but it was still unsightly. I used to own one and hated that approach.

So, all auto mfg's selling to the US were under pressure to meet the ever changing Fed standards yet design appealing looking cars. So they simply covered the entire front end of the car with plastic shapes that hid the real bumpers beneath them, this is what you have today on your X5. What else could they do? So we have what we have today.

Go into any dealership today, any, and if you crawl under the front or rear of the new cars, you will see the real steel bumper hiding behind the external plastic covering. Well, you probably can't see it due to all the plastic covers under the car but you can if you go into a body shop and look at a new car. See bottom pix for the real metal bumper and your plastic covering for your X5.

Also, I've included a couple of pix showing the metal bumper behind the plastic cover on a domestic car (red one) and something you have probably seen a number of times on the road, a car with the corner of the bumper pushed in.

Yes, it causes a lot of expensive repair on any of today's cars, not just BMW. However, the cars look nice. In terms of your outlook on insurance, no question, we are all paying upfront for the unlikely chance we will need to use it. That's why I mentioned I was happy to have had the opportunity to use mine to pay 100% of my two BMW windshield replacements (0 deductible too). Thing is, you and I will always be paying for car insurance whether we use it or not, has nothing to do with what car we own. Here in NYS, we are not allowed to get license plates without first showing proof of insurance.

So divide the $8K repair cost, less any deductible, by your yearly insurance cost over the last decade and be happy that you are finally getting a chance to use it, maybe even break even
.

.

Marty is the man!! This makes total sense.

[scottjays]

Originally Posted by natahoa

I’m thinking that could be very true. I’ve mostly used it to back out of my own driveway, which isn’t at all a tight fit. The one time I really needed it, it didn’t work. In all likelihood I did something wrong - I get that.

But it shouldn’t be that difficult to use. Also highly likely that BMW’s sloppy mismanagement of its tech features was a factor. It can be amusing when something about iDrive doesn’t work or is impossible to figure out, not so funny when it damages your car.

Sort of feels like Hal in 2001 Space Odyssey. Maybe it wanted to crash.

Not sure this will help OP but I park my '20 M50i in my garage, it's a tight fit for sure. I had previously set the sensors to auto brake in reverse but then I was messing around in the settings and found also brake intervention on side as well. But I did that change when it was parked outside of my garage. Upon returning and parking, was not problem BUT the next day when I tried to reverse out of garage, again tight fit and sensors w/ audible alarms are going nuts, the brake heavily engage and car was NOT reversing out of garage. I was stumped for a moment and actually tried again with more acceleration...no go, then I remembered the setting for the side brake intervention, found it, unchecked it, now I can reverse out again. The sensors were detecting the side wall/pillar of the garage as I moved backwards. Moral of that story, seems like the sensors worked as advertised in my situation.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by scottjays

Not sure this will help OP but I park my '20 M50i in my garage, it's a tight fit for sure. I had previously set the sensors to auto brake in reverse but then I was messing around in the settings and found also brake intervention on side as well. But I did that change when it was parked outside of my garage. Upon returning and parking, was not problem BUT the next day when I tried to reverse out of garage, again tight fit and sensors w/ audible alarms are going nuts, the brake heavily engage and car was NOT reversing out of garage. I was stumped for a moment and then remembered the setting for the side brake intervention, found it unchecked it, now I can reverse out again. Moral of that story, seems like the sensors worked as advertised in my situation.

Gosh I wish I had my car and could go look at that, but I’ve never seen any similar settings. I have the parking assistant upgrade, but didn’t add a lot of the other tech features.

Is it this?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by natahoa

Gosh I wish I had my car and could go look at that, but I’ve never seen any similar settings. I have the parking assistant upgrade, but didn’t add a lot of the other tech features.

Those settings are not available in the US, at least for the 2019s. There is no rear braking available on the X5 at parking speeds.

[natahoa]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Those settings are not available in the US, at least for the 2019s. There is no rear braking available on the X5 at parking speeds.

Thanks! I am sure the iDrive update will keep me busy when I get the car back. I’ll have to take a closer look at the safety settings.