05-12-2016, 04:45 PM | #24 |
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No wonder those BMW execs left for a Chinese startup. Probably get their ideas quicker to production/market there.
Tesla will take a big, big share of BMW sales. BMW's Board and C-suite need a regime change! |
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05-12-2016, 05:08 PM | #25 | ||
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In truth no one really knows if Bugatti loses money on every car it sells, most estimates are calculated by third party analysts, not until you get info from first party analysts (which will likely never happen) we'll never know. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they lost money on each car sold. Quote:
That's not true. Now if I recall correctly, your "reputable financial analyst" were actually the guys who wrote this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-te...0QE0DC20150809 So it's actually two people claiming they lose $4,000 on every car sold. These two individuals are actually idiots. The Model S has a profit margin of around 25%, which is fucking INSANE for a car company (average is single digits). So they make money on every Model S, why those two writers are dipshits is how they got to their metric. They took 100% of of their operational cost and spread it evenly amongst all the cars sold. This is mindnumbingly retarded, because the metric implies that Tesla has an unsustainable business model, which isn't true. Most of their losses and cash burn comes from their aggressive expansion. Factory expansion and what not are extremely expensive but must be done if you're going from building one model car to three. The $4,000 loss per car sold doesn't control for investment spending meant to drive revenue growth in the future. The old adage "you gotta spend money to make money" applies here. Let's say you want to open your own brick and mortar store to sell bikes. You take a $250,000 loan to get yourself started and open your first store. After one year you had $500,000 in revenue and from that, had $50,000 in profit. However since you borrowed and spent $250,000, you lost $200,000 (for the sake of simplicity, let's ignore amortization and depreciation). Would I say for every bike you sell you lose money? Nope, but those two retards would. |
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05-12-2016, 05:44 PM | #26 | |
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2021 does seem overly far out that I would expect BMW is preparing something innovative or disruptive to bring to market. A firm with as many minds as BMW cannot possibly think arriving to the party multiple years late is a good idea... Unless they were possibly waiting to gauge the feasibility of it. Either way, they would need something innovative or disruptive to make it worth it. Possibly we will see some developments related to the charging infrastructure that will be innovative? Who knows. |
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05-12-2016, 06:01 PM | #27 | |
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Think the issue is the innovators and disrupters left and continue to leave and what is left is an echo-chamber of empty suits and marketing goons that set the tone from the top. I can almost guarantee that nothing groundbreaking or game changing is occurring when key executives leave for a Chinese startup and then the iNext program is announced all of a sudden (glaring admission that beyond the failed i-cars there was nothing to follow). Execs and engineers seek out the companies with the best prospects, they don't leave them.
BMW is not disrupting anything in the automotive world these days. This was not the case before 2007, when BMW made iconic models one after the next, that not only disrupted the automotive industry, it invented new categories! Quote:
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05-12-2016, 06:07 PM | #28 |
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05-12-2016, 06:18 PM | #29 |
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I agree the timing is funny. They really must be changing direction (i.e. scrambling to compete with Tesla) abruptly to come out all of a sudden and say "Hey guys, get ready to be blown away... in 5 years"
Time to go find me an i3 lease for pennies! |
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05-12-2016, 06:22 PM | #30 |
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My question is, what happens to the M brand? As someone already mentioned, this was and is the flagship of BMW and what truly put them on the map years ago. iNext? I already have a tablet
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05-12-2016, 07:08 PM | #31 |
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Sounds nice and all but the name couldn't possibly be any cheesier. iNext? Seriously? Oh well at least it will bode well for its upcoming stablemate X-Cite. Cheesiness overdose. IMO 10 series or i9 or whatever sounds a lot more intuitive than iNext..
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05-12-2016, 07:13 PM | #32 | |
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The question will be more if it will be still "cutting edge technology" in 2021. From my current point of view Tesla will have a whole fleet of cars by then. Thats just speaking from an investors point of view, here in Germany there is still no infrastructure for EVs. So personally I won't be buying any EVs even in 2021. ![]() |
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05-12-2016, 08:02 PM | #33 | |
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And secondly, fuel cell cars don't "burn" hydrogen, they combine it with oxygen from the air and produce water and electricity. If you burn hydrogen (rapid oxidation) you end up with water and heat. Hydrogen is a dead end IMO. There is just no enthusiasm for it in the real world. Once Tesla gets their manufacturing online, they will flood the market with good, practical, EV cars. All the other companies will try to rush in, some will succeed and some will not. But since there will be so little differentiation in EV capabilities compared to combustion engines - an electric motor is just like any other electric motor, not so with combustion engines - I think BMW will be in trouble. Not the best handling, not the fastest, not the prettiest - what will be their USP??
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05-12-2016, 08:12 PM | #34 |
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Tesla is the only company that wants to build an electric car everybody else does it to keep the govt happy the i3 is beyond awful
Do you think electric cars are going to catch on by being 10 times uglier than anything else on the road the model s is a very attractive looking car nobody would say the same for a i3 ,leaf |
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05-12-2016, 08:13 PM | #35 | ||
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My 1st love was 2006 BMW 325i Sport + Prem 6MT but I married the 2016 M3 BSM MDCT.
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05-12-2016, 08:24 PM | #36 | |
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05-12-2016, 09:20 PM | #37 | |
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The engines are more or less equally powerful (in the same model range), most car companies now have nice interiors, infotainment and assist systems. Its already starting to be all about design and price. With EVs it will be even worse. Nowadays for nice sound there is AMG, for handling Porsche, Comfort: S-Class, bang-for-the-buck: GTR and so on. Unfortunately BMW is slowly loosing their unique selling points like rear wheel drive (Active Tourer ![]() ![]() The "M" in BMW that was standing for Motor does now also not say much, only downsized 4 Cylinders and even 3 Cylinders are not "cutting edge technology". In terms of engines it seems like Mercedes are now starting to overtake BMW unfortunately. But yeah if for the EVs only the design will the the most prominent selling point then BMW will have a problem judging by the i3. Why do EVs have to be so ugly? In my opinion Tesla made the right choice to make the Model S look like a real car instead of a green econobox. |
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05-12-2016, 10:18 PM | #38 | |
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05-12-2016, 10:25 PM | #39 |
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That was their plan all along. They have enough funding runway to get them to the Model 3 and beyond. Perhaps you should read Venture Capital 101. They have massive and I mean massive R&D spend for the new Model 3 and Gigafactory ramp up, which is why they are reporting loss after loss every quarter.
Once they have the Gigafactory and can make batteries MUCH cheaper than anyone else...well GG to all the other automakers. Once Model 3 production is is in full swing...probably around 2020/2021, they will have two trump cards: Gigafactory + Supercharger. That is something no other manufacturer can match. But hopefully BMW gives a fitting response in 2021, which is probably when Tesla will fully ramp up Model 3 production/fix all production issues. Besides do you want to bet against a guy that can launch/land rockets much cheaper than anyone else and is turning the Space industry upside down? |
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05-12-2016, 10:32 PM | #40 |
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BMW should focus its R&D on producing the Ultimate Driving Machine again for people that want sport luxury cars that can be daily driven without compromises and can also hold their own at the track.
Porsche is having crazy success with this philosophy. Once they bring a 3series fighter - it may as well be game over..... Who cares about this iCrap?
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05-13-2016, 02:42 AM | #42 | |
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There is always a front to every story or business. |
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05-13-2016, 03:09 AM | #44 | |
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