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      01-16-2020, 10:02 AM   #1
MPBK
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Insurance - driving habit trackers

For those not familiar, insurance companies are offering a discount based on driving habits. Needless to say, they need to learn about your driving habits. Back then insurance companies would ship you a dongle, which you'd plug into the car's OBDII port. It measures speed, acceleration, braking, etc.

Now, it seems insurance companies have all migrated to using an app on your phone. The advantage (for them) is that they also get GPS data (your location) on top of not having to deal with the costs of the dongle.
The disadvantage, it seems, is that they are tracking the habits of your phone, not your car. What if you car pool a lot? Yeah, they say you can go into the app and delete the trip. How much of an inconvenience is that?

I'm interested in learning from your experiences. Is this a good or bad idea? Is the discount significant to make you sell your privacy and put up with the inconvenience of having to edit trips?
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      01-16-2020, 10:16 AM   #2
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I wouldn't do it. My insurance company asked me to participate a while back with the plug in. I don't care what the discount is. They say they will only use it for discounts. I'm calling BS. You know that data will ultimately be used against you in some fashion. Now add the phone. NOPE...
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      01-16-2020, 10:18 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
For those not familiar, insurance companies are offering a discount based on driving habits. Needless to say, they need to learn about your driving habits. Back then insurance companies would ship you a dongle, which you'd plug into the car's OBDII port. It measures speed, acceleration, braking, etc.

Now, it seems insurance companies have all migrated to using an app on your phone. The advantage (for them) is that they also get GPS data (your location) on top of not having to deal with the costs of the dongle.
The disadvantage, it seems, is that they are tracking the habits of your phone, not your car. What if you car pool a lot? Yeah, they say you can go into the app and delete the trip. How much of an inconvenience is that?

I'm interested in learning from your experiences. Is this a good or bad idea? Is the discount significant to make you sell your privacy and put up with the inconvenience of having to edit trips?
I don't partake in any obd plug in or app on my phone for discounts. If they are going to give me discounts it's because I don't get into accidents or get tickets. Not because they see I drive faster than I should and in their eyes that's dangerous.
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      01-16-2020, 10:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 240Newbie View Post
I don't partake in any obd plug in or app on my phone for discounts. If they are going to give me discounts it's because I don't get into accidents or get tickets. Not because they see I drive faster than I should and in their eyes that's dangerous.
From the insurance companie's pov, offering you any particular rate (I tend to ignore what they call "discount"; the only thing that matters to me is the bottom line - final cost) is like buying a stock based on past performance. It's not difficult to understand that everybody wants indicators of future performance.

Saying I don't partake of this non-sense is a simplistic position, to say the least. As you can imagine, if they are giving "discounts" to those who participate, that lost money has to come from somewhere else. They simply increase the base rate to everybody. In other words, we will eventually be forced to participate, or we will be subsidizing those who do.

Anyone here who have been participating in this? Did you get a significant "discount" at renewal, which made it worth your while?
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      01-16-2020, 11:04 AM   #5
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Probably only soccer moms.

Would it be OK if I just plug it into my winter beater and leave it parked all year? Lol
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      01-16-2020, 11:33 AM   #6
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These kinds of things start out as tests to see what the market will accept and tolerate. If it gets enough traction, assuming there is a business case for it at scale, you better believe the insurance companies would prefer to make it a de facto enforced standard.

Do you want a future where you are auto compelled to give all of your driving behavioral data to them all the time? Because voluntarily participating in these programs for a temporary discount carrot on the stick is how we get there.
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      01-16-2020, 12:00 PM   #7
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how much discount companies generally offer?
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      01-16-2020, 12:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
how much discount companies generally offer?
That is what I want to know.
From what I can gather, there's no set discount. It all depends on your individual driving risks (as measured by the app).

I was expecting more people here would have some experience with this. What seems to be new is the use of phones instead of dongles. Driving habits data tracking has been done for more than a decade (Progressive first introduced it back in 1998).

Interested in hearing from someone who can tell us what kind of discounts they've gotten.
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      01-16-2020, 01:11 PM   #9
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I've never been interested in these, but I am curious to know the specifics of what they ding you for.

For example, heavy acceleration might be a negative, but then again, it's absolutely necessary in order to enter the highway safely due to the short distance of some on ramps. I've seen way too many people merge onto the highway, at non-highway speeds.

That's just one example, but there are also other things that should be considered for a good driver beyond just actual driving behavior in my opinion.

Headlights on at night/all times. Checking mirrors. Safe overtaking distance. These are all things I see people fail at every single day, yet these dongles or apps take this into account 0% it seems.
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      01-16-2020, 01:44 PM   #10
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Liberty Mutual just proposed this to us after switching and they said that they usually see a 12% discount per vehicle.
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      01-16-2020, 01:45 PM   #11
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I thought some were doing only first 6 month (though to drive like grandma for 6 month might be difficult)
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      01-16-2020, 02:17 PM   #12
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In the infamous words of Dana Carvey doing his GB impression:

"Not. Gonna. Do. It."


Unfortunately, I suspect some "advocacy" group is going to come out and demand this type of thing be made standard in all cars, through a standardized device or app, and none of us will have a choice.
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      01-16-2020, 02:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
From the insurance companie's pov, offering you any particular rate (I tend to ignore what they call "discount"; the only thing that matters to me is the bottom line - final cost) is like buying a stock based on past performance. It's not difficult to understand that everybody wants indicators of future performance.

Saying I don't partake of this non-sense is a simplistic position, to say the least. As you can imagine, if they are giving "discounts" to those who participate, that lost money has to come from somewhere else. They simply increase the base rate to everybody. In other words, we will eventually be forced to participate, or we will be subsidizing those who do.

Anyone here who have been participating in this? Did you get a significant "discount" at renewal, which made it worth your while?
You're right, and when I was young and had no history they charged me out the a$$ to be able to drive because kids "crash cars" and you have no history. Monitoring your driving habits still only takes into account past driving history. Monitoring your driving is only another way to over charge you for no reason.
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      01-16-2020, 02:41 PM   #14
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SafeCo only tracks your driving for 3 months then you send it back so I did it on the Daily and wife's car. Of course not on the M3.

Wife doesn't use her car much (SLK) so I think she got like an 18% discount.
On the daily, I scheduled it during a trip where we'd be gone for 2 weeks so that was good. But because the daily was driven alot, I only got an 8% discount on that, 5% was the min.

Overall I think it was worth it, saved a couple hundred in the first year and it's been ongoing since then.
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      01-16-2020, 03:27 PM   #15
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Are you prepared to obey the speed limit at all times, no matter what traffic is doing?
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      01-16-2020, 06:44 PM   #16
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Not a chance... is such an invasion! Let alone an app on my phone, hahaha, ice cube chance in hell, lol

Have you stopped to think for a second that the data they collect as to your location, time spent there and more, doesn't have more value than to measure just your driving habits?

Don't worry though, Apple and Google will be selling the vehicle data to insurance companies soon without your permission, or the car manufacturers will too.
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      01-16-2020, 07:09 PM   #17
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If you are going to do it, at least get the OBD one as they only ask to track you for the first 3 months or until enough data is gathered. The app based one will always be tracking you and all your behavior, including speed, acceleration, using your phone while driving, etc.
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      01-16-2020, 07:42 PM   #18
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Nope. Never. Not gonna happen. The fact that anyone is oblivious to what things like this are doing to us as a "free" society and opts in is mind blowing. WhyTF would you willingly let a crooked corporation collect data on you? For a measly few bucks "saved"? I guarantee you it'll cost a lot more in the long term when shit like this becomes mandatory and we end up with things like speeding tickets in the mail without ever getting pulled over. Need to kill it now, before it becomes the norm. If you've opted in, cancel and unplug that OBD transmitter. If you've downloaded the app, uninstall it. People have no idea how valuable our data has become. Don't believe me? Google "personal data as a commodity". Then ask yourselves what will my insurance company actually do with this data? Why are they so eager to offer a "discount" when profit is their only concern? They are the ones who will profit from this, not you.
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      01-17-2020, 06:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Nope. Never. Not gonna happen. The fact that anyone is oblivious to what things like this are doing to us as a "free" society and opts in is mind blowing. WhyTF would you willingly let a crooked corporation collect data on you? For a measly few bucks "saved"? I guarantee you it'll cost a lot more in the long term when shit like this becomes mandatory and we end up with things like speeding tickets in the mail without ever getting pulled over. Need to kill it now, before it becomes the norm. If you've opted in, cancel and unplug that OBD transmitter. If you've downloaded the app, uninstall it. People have no idea how valuable our data has become. Don't believe me? Google "personal data as a commodity". Then ask yourselves what will my insurance company actually do with this data? Why are they so eager to offer a "discount" when profit is their only concern? They are the ones who will profit from this, not you.

"If the product is free, you are the product."
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      01-17-2020, 07:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Nope. Never. Not gonna happen. The fact that anyone is oblivious to what things like this are doing to us as a "free" society and opts in is mind blowing. WhyTF would you willingly let a crooked corporation collect data on you? For a measly few bucks "saved"? I guarantee you it'll cost a lot more in the long term when shit like this becomes mandatory and we end up with things like speeding tickets in the mail without ever getting pulled over. Need to kill it now, before it becomes the norm. If you've opted in, cancel and unplug that OBD transmitter. If you've downloaded the app, uninstall it. People have no idea how valuable our data has become. Don't believe me? Google "personal data as a commodity". Then ask yourselves what will my insurance company actually do with this data? Why are they so eager to offer a "discount" when profit is their only concern? They are the ones who will profit from this, not you.
This is why we need what the Europeans just passed GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation).
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      01-17-2020, 07:36 AM   #21
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I know of one guy that had one and was involved in an accident. The insurance didn't want to pay and tried to use the readings against him, there customer.
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      01-17-2020, 08:31 AM   #22
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Liberty Mutual just proposed this to us after switching and they said that they usually see a 12% discount per vehicle.


Did you take the offer?
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