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      07-26-2017, 09:29 PM   #14521
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I'd like someone else to start a thread on this, but this transgender ban truly disturbs me.

I'm always and i have always been a minority member in my communities. I'm also lucky with my skill with making friends. I have worn an uniform. You obey, you serve, you train and you're a speck of dust. If you purge people , start with men who are bothered with anything else but the dog tags.
Just another bulletpoint on his monumental list of fuck ups.
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      07-26-2017, 09:53 PM   #14522
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I'd like someone else to start a thread on this, but this transgender ban truly disturbs me.

I'm always and i have always been a minority member in my communities. I'm also lucky with my skill with making friends. I have worn an uniform. You obey, you serve, you train and you're a speck of dust. If you purge people , start with men who are bothered with anything else but the dog tags.
It's just baffling to say the least. From what I heard he didn't even go over that plan with the Pentagon much less his own staff. I can't see what the point is--didn't we get past the gay thing?

I guess if your a guy in the military and there is another guy, who has female parts it might be weird but haven't we come a long way in society to render such a thing less weird than 30 years ago?

Oh wait....much of the policies being implemented are pushing us back 20,30, 40 or 50 years.
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      07-26-2017, 11:40 PM   #14523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekid2002 View Post
this will help appease the "religious right" section of his followers. Considering his history i highly doubt he actually gives a shit.
Yeah.

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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Just another bulletpoint on his monumental list of fuck ups.
Yeah.
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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
It's just baffling to say the least. From what I heard he didn't even go over that plan with the Pentagon much less his own staff. I can't see what the point is--didn't we get past the gay thing?

I guess if your a guy in the military and there is another guy, who has female parts it might be weird but haven't we come a long way in society to render such a thing less weird than 30 years ago?

Oh wait....much of the policies being implemented are pushing us back 20,30, 40 or 50 years.
Yeah.

One word answers are my thing today.

In three tweets, the commander fired thousands of his own soldiers. That's just so horrible there are no words.
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      07-27-2017, 09:25 AM   #14524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
It's just baffling to say the least. From what I heard he didn't even go over that plan with the Pentagon much less his own staff. I can't see what the point is--didn't we get past the gay thing?

I guess if your a guy in the military and there is another guy, who has female parts it might be weird but haven't we come a long way in society to render such a thing less weird than 30 years ago?

Oh wait....much of the policies being implemented are pushing us back 20,30, 40 or 50 years.
I think the idea is a gay guy running around in a barracks dressed as a woman might be distracting and cause potential issues when everyone should be focused on say...the war at hand.

On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
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      07-27-2017, 09:36 AM   #14525
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Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
I think the idea is a gay guy running around in a barracks dressed as a woman might be distracting and cause potential issues when everyone should be focused on say...the war at hand.

On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
And here I thought fatigues weren't gender specific. C'mon man that's a lame argument.
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      07-27-2017, 09:36 AM   #14526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
It's just baffling to say the least. From what I heard he didn't even go over that plan with the Pentagon much less his own staff. I can't see what the point is--didn't we get past the gay thing?

I guess if your a guy in the military and there is another guy, who has female parts it might be weird but haven't we come a long way in society to render such a thing less weird than 30 years ago?

Oh wait....much of the policies being implemented are pushing us back 20,30, 40 or 50 years.
Trump shows his awesome governing skills yet again.

I doubt there is any kind of plan in place for this. Pentagon didn't even know about it and Huckabee basically replied to every question at the press conference with "I don't know but they will sort everything out later". You'd think something like this has been discussed and a plan to implement it would be ready to go before it's announced.
The whole thing seems just like a distraction or like infinitekid2002 said, something to appease the religeous part of his fanbase.

FWIW, I get why it could be a problem to have transgenders in the military, but it's just ridiculous when some people say that the finacial side of it (<$10mil) is the main reason.
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      07-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #14527
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      07-27-2017, 10:09 AM   #14528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
And here I thought fatigues weren't gender specific. C'mon man that's a lame argument.
Well what about the rest of what I said?


On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population than trans and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
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      07-27-2017, 10:34 AM   #14529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

.
Is this what the military leaders are saying?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politi...efs/index.html
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      07-27-2017, 10:35 AM   #14530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Well what about the rest of what I said?


On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population than trans and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
You make it sound like these soldiers/sailors/marines etc hold a pride parade in the barracks every night. The same lame argument was brought up when they allowed women in the military. And yes, there was a time where top military officials said women shouldn't be allowed to serve. No one says that now. Also I doubt Trump actually consulted with anyone given his history of lying, but I digress.

The cost argument is ridiculous when stacked up against a $600+ billion annual budget. If cost were a factor then, there a plenty of other places to look. These soldiers add value. Uniforms of the wrong color to Afghanistan does not.

If they can do the job, they should be allowed to serve. There are thousands that do today.
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      07-27-2017, 10:36 AM   #14531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Is this what the military leaders are saying?
Let us remember who the CiC is. There were many in the military who didn't agree with the previous CiC, yet still carried out their mission.

I was never given the honor of supporting my country by wearing a uniform, so I can't comment directly on the issue itself.
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      07-27-2017, 11:07 AM   #14532
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Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
And here I thought fatigues weren't gender specific. C'mon man that's a lame argument.
Well what about the rest of what I said?


On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population than trans and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
I agree - its distraction, unnecessary expense, all sorts of sensitivity training and accommodation, and it doesn't improve the fighting force. End of story.

If someone thinks they are a giraffe trapped in a mans body, would you get them mental help, or surgery to elongate their neck?

There was a story on the news last night about a military couple, where one or both is transgender, and how they are "afraid." I couldn't follow if only one or both were trans - the story lost its logic about 1/3 of the way in...
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      07-27-2017, 11:09 AM   #14533
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Originally Posted by Beartato View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I doubt he has. Still, that's pretty funny.
http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/

Oh wait Snopes is fake news, so I don't know
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Pornstars are their researchers?
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      07-27-2017, 11:21 AM   #14534
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and it doesn't improve the fighting force. End of story.
This.

This presidency must be so hard on SJWs. It makes me smile.
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      07-27-2017, 12:11 PM   #14535
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I agree - its distraction, unnecessary expense, all sorts of sensitivity training and accommodation, and it doesn't improve the fighting force. End of story.

If someone thinks they are a giraffe trapped in a mans body, would you get them mental help, or surgery to elongate their neck?

There was a story on the news last night about a military couple, where one or both is transgender, and how they are "afraid." I couldn't follow if only one or both were trans - the story lost its logic about 1/3 of the way in...
I'm absolutely shocked. Shocked I tell ya.
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      07-27-2017, 12:26 PM   #14536
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I'm absolutely shocked. Shocked I tell ya.
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      07-27-2017, 12:55 PM   #14537
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I understand the reasoning behind the ban was a Democratic attempt to put funding in a non related bill that would require the military to fund hormones and maybe fund transition surgery for soldiers wanting it. Considering the high profile case of Chelsea Manning its not an unfounded fear.

Thanks. Long time listener here. First time caller.
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      07-27-2017, 01:16 PM   #14538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
I think the idea is a gay guy running around in a barracks dressed as a woman might be distracting and cause potential issues when everyone should be focused on say...the war at hand.

On top of that they have a much higher suicide rate and can potential cost significantly more than a 'standard' soldier.

Personally IDGAF but if the leaders in our military feel this is the best way to make us the most efficient & capable war machine on the planet I can't disagree with them based on my feelings. They are the experts, not me.

I mean we don't let a number of other people serve who are a higher % of our population and no one cries about it. It's only an issue because Trump announced it and people like to get their feelings heard on social media.

Feel free to bring up the Naxy Seal who is now a 'woman'. I can shoot that down in a heart beat.
The thing is, a high majority will be the likes of supply, aircraft trades, intelligence etc.

If you are fixing an aircraft or driving a truck, fixing a downlink / uplink to a satellite feed, no one really cares if you a male, female, or trans, it just does not matter.

TBH if you are stuck at Al Udeid for 18 months, running a round in a dress is pretty much the norm.

So what reason would it matter if an armourer decided to become a woman, or an avionics engineer ?


I would sooner want to associate with someone no matter their gender that wanted to defend their country, than a bloke that has not or is not defending their country.


It was also ineptly handled, exactly how will serving members feel?

Imagine someone currently on Ops now informed they are not wanted?

Also sends a clear signal to soceity at large, 2nd class citizens in the land of the free (for some).
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      07-27-2017, 01:17 PM   #14539
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
I understand the reasoning behind the ban was a Democratic attempt to put funding in a non related bill that would require the military to fund hormones and maybe fund transition surgery for soldiers wanting it. Considering the high profile case of Chelsea Manning its not an unfounded fear.

Thanks. Long time listener here. First time caller.
Still does not make sense as the GOP controls congress and can pass or sink any bill they want to. At this point the Dem's might as well not even show up as they have zero power other than talking to the media.
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      07-27-2017, 01:19 PM   #14540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
The thing is, a high majority will be the likes of supply, aircraft trades, intelligence etc.

If you are fixing an aircraft or driving a truck, fixing a downlink / uplink to a satellite feed, no one really cares if you a male, female, or trans, it just does not matter.

TBH if you are stuck at Al Udeid for 18 months, running a round in a dress is pretty much the norm.

So what reason would it matter if an armourer decided to become a woman, or an avionics engineer ?


I would sooner want to associate with someone no matter their gender that wanted to defend their country, than a bloke that has not or is not defending their country.


It was also ineptly handled, exactly how will serving members feel?

Imagine someone currently on Ops now informed they are not wanted?

Also sends a clear signal to soceity at large, 2nd class citizens in the land of the free (for some).
Read a story today about someone who is TG and has served and made a career in the military for 20 years and now has become worried as to if they will be able to retire as a military vet. What happens to these people?
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      07-27-2017, 01:37 PM   #14541
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Read a story today about someone who is TG and has served and made a career in the military for 20 years and now has become worried as to if they will be able to retire as a military vet. What happens to these people?
When I joined up 1980 it was illegal to be gay or bisexual in HM Forces, that changed in 2000.

Funnily enough the world never stopped spinning, nothing major happened, things continued as normal.

Everyone knew before 2000 who was what orientation wise.

When my daughter was a medic in Afghanistan, they had a transgender crew member, funnily enough no one ever complained, made an issue or anything, working as a team saving people comes first and let's face it bullets and bombs don't really care.
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      07-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #14542
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I don't think taxpayer dollars should be used when a service member decides they wanna switch their sex ..."because they don't feel right in their own skin."



If you are transgender prior to applying and can complete BASIC TRAINING or OCS.... go for it.
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