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      03-11-2019, 03:27 PM   #1057
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On the guaranteed minimum income, those interested might Google “Negative Income Tax” which is a similar idea, championed years ago by noted free-market monetarist economist Milton Friedman. Then it was an alternative to the very inefficient welfare systems; today it seems to be being discussed as an enhancement. I can’t imagine the politics of ending social security and replacing it with NIT, or guaranteed minimum income, for example (and all the other assistance programs as well).
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      03-11-2019, 03:43 PM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
I read these forums quite a bit more than I post (and probably way more than I should), and I would certainly not characterize Run Silent, Dave90TT, .2pdk or Haywood as “The least informed people on this forum”. Not only is that statement clearly untrue, it diminishes Taskmaster’s argument at least by detracting from it, if not undermining his/her own credibility.

The point about a technological utopia is a very interesting one, much better articulated by Hawking than AOC. But it is still a utopian vision, and not anywhere near a practical reality, as others have already noted with respect to tasks not yet fully automated like farming, animal husbandry, and many others. Some, I suspect, may never be amenable to full automation; others like say veal farming are, but would we tolerate the implications of that?

But assuming it is technically possible, and can be implemented in every locality, economy, and climate on the globe, the questions of who owns the capital, how the machines are maintained, and how the output is distributed remain (even how the raw materials are distributed is an open question). I would imagine if we left these issues to government (socialism) we would have resource allocation wars (literally) unless governments agreed to share output evenly, which I don’t see happening. This in essence is technological feudalism, which was a great system - only if you were the lord of the manor.

I’ll stop there. That whole topic might merit its own thread (a bit of sci-if, a bit of economics, a bit of political science, and a dash of human nature), and is only relevant here because of AOC’s comment.
You lost all credibility there. You'll note that with the exception of responsing to one direct personal attack, I made an effort to respond to all replies in good faith.

I don't expect you to "take my side" but if you're going to pretend to be an unbiased observer, don't make such asinine claims.
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      03-11-2019, 03:47 PM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
That’s not what it is, that’s not how it works.

Try reading up on it before you embarrass yourself with more silly comments.
Province of Ontario had a pilot project going with 4000 people on the program, the pilot project was cut short because it wasn't working. The vast majority of participants didn't go find work, a number of them quit jobs they had and took up hobbies rather than using the program as an income supplement. I believe Finland cancelled their program because of similar results.
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      03-11-2019, 04:29 PM   #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
You lost all credibility there. You'll note that with the exception of responsing to one direct personal attack, I made an effort to respond to all replies in good faith.

I don't expect you to "take my side" but if you're going to pretend to be an unbiased observer, don't make such asinine claims.
Which claim exactly was asinine? That myself, amongst others, were not the least informed people on this thread?

I guarantee you, I am more informed than you. I my not hold your same political beliefs, but that certainly doesn't make me uninformed. I won't go into my experience and education, because it's clear you're the one that is incredibly uninformed, and are a lost cause.
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      03-11-2019, 04:30 PM   #1061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
You lost all credibility there. You'll note that with the exception of responsing to one direct personal attack, I made an effort to respond to all replies in good faith.

I don't expect you to "take my side" but if you're going to pretend to be an unbiased observer, don't make such asinine claims.
I used to work with a guy who could literally stand on one side of a bus and piss over it to the other side. He won a lot of bets. I learned to never get into a pissing contest.
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      03-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
Which claim exactly was asinine? That myself, amongst others, were not the least informed people on this thread?

I guarantee you, I am more informed than you. I my not hold your same political beliefs, but that certainly doesn't make me uninformed. I won't go into my experience and education, because it's clear you're the one that is incredibly uninformed, and are a lost cause.
Your losing credibility with taskmaster is like Steven Hawking losing credibility with AOC....
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      03-11-2019, 05:18 PM   #1063
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1QS2JG

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“I’m not for impeachment,” Pelosi, the top U.S. Democrat, said in the interview, which was conducted last week.

I just don't think they are that crazy. Or maybe she's thinking they can take the Senate.
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      03-11-2019, 05:48 PM   #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Province of Ontario had a pilot project going with 4000 people on the program, the pilot project was cut short because it wasn't working. The vast majority of participants didn't go find work, a number of them quit jobs they had and took up hobbies rather than using the program as an income supplement. I believe Finland cancelled their program because of similar results.
Not correct. Finland's study gave money to people who were already unemployed, but found that they were no more likely to find employment than their control group. It doesn't says (from all the reading I've done on the subject, feel free to correct me) that people quit their jobs.


But the proposal from Yang is specifically because there will not be enough jobs for people in the future, and it's going to be necessary to provide SOME standard of living.
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      03-11-2019, 06:05 PM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
Which claim exactly was asinine? That myself, amongst others, were not the least informed people on this thread?

I guarantee you, I am more informed than you. I my not hold your same political beliefs, but that certainly doesn't make me uninformed. I won't go into my experience and education, because it's clear you're the one that is incredibly uninformed, and are a lost cause.
No, you're not. If you're participating in this thread, you're just as clueless as everyone else who associates with it. You're like a dog, lapping up the shit that Fox News and other right leaning news cites belt out because you're comfortable in your echo chamber.

But it's hilarious you call me poorly informed when this is an example of your contributions:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...postcount=1041

Is this the BEST showing you have? You want me to take you seriously when you can't even be bothered to take 5 seconds to google something to make sure it's accurate?

Maybe you're not "stupid" but you're clearly lazy.
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      03-11-2019, 06:12 PM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
... If you're participating in this thread, you're just as clueless as everyone else who associates with it....
Ummmm
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      03-11-2019, 06:14 PM   #1067
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You both seem to know stuff and say things it's a tie
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      03-11-2019, 06:20 PM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
Ummmm
Flawless kill...
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      03-11-2019, 06:21 PM   #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
Ummmm
Lol... and what’s more, “You're like a dog, lapping up the shit that Fox News and other right leaning news cites belt out”

And now, back to our reasoned, well thought out conversation with the oh, so intelligent taskmaster... lol...
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      03-11-2019, 06:29 PM   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No, you're not. If you're participating in this thread, you're just as clueless as everyone else who associates with it. You're like a dog, lapping up the shit that Fox News and other right leaning news cites belt out because you're comfortable in your echo chamber.

But it's hilarious you call me poorly informed when this is an example of your contributions:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...postcount=1041

Is this the BEST showing you have? You want me to take you seriously when you can't even be bothered to take 5 seconds to google something to make sure it's accurate?

Maybe you're not "stupid" but you're clearly lazy.
Sure, buddy.

Whatever you say, pal.

Of course, friend.

Buh bye, amigo.
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      03-11-2019, 06:30 PM   #1071
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Lmao... just saw AOC touting more robotics taking the place of humans doing robotic work because then “we’d” have more time doing things like exploring space..can’t make this shit up.
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      03-11-2019, 06:32 PM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Not correct. Finland's study gave money to people who were already unemployed, but found that they were no more likely to find employment than their control group. It doesn't says (from all the reading I've done on the subject, feel free to correct me) that people quit their jobs.


But the proposal from Yang is specifically because there will not be enough jobs for people in the future, and it's going to be necessary to provide SOME standard of living.
My comments about people not looking for work, quitting their jobs and taking up hobbies was in respect to the Ontario Pilot Project.

I'm sure folks in other parts of the world are a lot less lazy than Ontarians though.

Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 03-11-2019 at 06:38 PM..
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      03-11-2019, 06:37 PM   #1073
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Maybe you're not "stupid" but you're clearly lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
Sure, buddy.

Whatever you say, pal.

Of course, friend.

Buh bye, amigo.
Hey, he gave you the benefit of the doubt on being stupid.
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      03-11-2019, 06:38 PM   #1074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
umm....
Ah, jeez, sorry, guy... but, hey, if Dodger can post the same damned cartoon over and over for years, I claim statue (Kramer) of limitations for what, a day? Anyway, great minds, I claim that also....:smile:
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      03-12-2019, 08:30 AM   #1075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT View Post
Well, yeah, that's not really surprising at all. One of the big ideas of the far left is the Universal Basic Income. In other words, everyone gets some amount of money,whether they work or not. That amount is supposed to be able to keep them above the poverty line. With that money, they can do all those things AOC wants.

Of course, that money has to come from somewhere, and as New York state has found out, if you start taxing the rich too much, they start leaving. So where does the money come from? Well, we can just print more, right? Right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
Ummmm
I need you to take a set back and look at the context of that statement. I'm not speaking of everyone who participates in the thread at all, I'm speaking of people who are agreeing with the premise of the "arguments" in this thread.
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      03-12-2019, 08:46 AM   #1076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I need you to take a set back and look at the context of that statement. I'm not speaking of everyone who participates in the thread at all, I'm speaking of people who are agreeing with the premise of the "arguments" in this thread.
You mean this:

Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No, you're not. If you're participating in this thread, you're just as clueless as everyone else who associates with it. You're like a dog, lapping up the shit that Fox News and other right leaning news cites belt out because you're comfortable in your echo chamber.
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      03-12-2019, 08:50 AM   #1077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
You mean this:

Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No, you're not. If you're participating in this thread, you're just as clueless as everyone else who associates with it. You're like a dog, lapping up the shit that Fox News and other right leaning news cites belt out because you're comfortable in your echo chamber.
Look at the word "associate"
Could I have worded it better? Sure. Do I care? Not really.
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      03-12-2019, 08:52 AM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Look at the word "associate"
Could I have worded it better? Sure. Do I care? Not really.
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