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      01-29-2019, 07:55 AM   #177
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Nobody promised free chicken. Just an environment where people could acquire chicken. Big difference.
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      01-29-2019, 07:56 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Yeah. Universal medicare, tuition-free public college and trade school, accessible housing for all, campaign-finance reform, etc. All sounds really bad
Hmmm...universal medicare - just what I want, because we all know the government has been doing a bang up job on medical care currently (see VA hospital). Tuition free college? Yup, that sounds great. Let's take the 30,000 tuition I paid for undergrad, then let's give the government 50,000 in taxes to manager the free tuition program so I can go to school and not have to pay for it. That sure sounds like a bargain to me. Accessible housing for all - we already have that, it's called section 8 housing. It is nearly always quite nice when it's first built. It's the lazy shits that live there who screw it up and make it a cesspool. Campaign finance reform - not sure what you are getting with this, I am for this and so is pretty much 99% of the entire USA population.
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      01-29-2019, 08:02 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Nobody promised free chicken. Just an environment where people could acquire chicken. Big difference.
That's exactly the point. If people don't have to worry about going broke due to a medical issue, and can pursue a trade of some sort beyond high school, they can have the ability to acquire chicken.
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      01-29-2019, 08:05 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Yeah. Universal medicare, tuition-free public college and trade school, accessible housing for all, campaign-finance reform, etc. All sounds really bad
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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      01-29-2019, 08:07 AM   #181
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That's exactly the point. If people don't have to worry about going broke due to a medical issue, and can pursue a trade of some sort beyond high school, they can have the ability to acquire chicken.
Why not cut to the chase. Free money to buy chicken. And then, fuck it, letís just give away chicken. People who buy into free chicken eventually starve.
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      01-29-2019, 08:20 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Hmmm...universal medicare - just what I want, because we all know the government has been doing a bang up job on medical care currently (see VA hospital).
For a country with extensive private healthcare the US spends an exorbitant amount of public funds. the system needs reform.

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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Tuition free college? Yup, that sounds great. Let's take the 30,000 tuition I paid for undergrad, then let's give the government 50,000 in taxes to manager the free tuition program so I can go to school and not have to pay for it. That sure sounds like a bargain to me.
We are talking about public/vocational schools here...not universities. At one time vocational schools were free or nearly free. The output of those vocational schools is taxpaying employees...what's wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Accessible housing for all - we already have that, it's called section 8 housing. It is nearly always quite nice when it's first built. It's the lazy shits that live there who screw it up and make it a cesspool.
Maybe section 8 housing vouchers isn't the answer. How do you instil pride of ownership if there isn't some form of investment?

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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Campaign finance reform - not sure what you are getting with this, I am for this and so is pretty much 99% of the entire USA population.
Is there regulation that prohibits campaign donations from lobbyists etc. or is the only requirement to disclose these contributions?
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      01-29-2019, 08:21 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Priorities.
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      01-29-2019, 08:23 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Why not cut to the chase. Free money to buy chicken. And then, fuck it, letís just give away chicken. People who buy into free chicken eventually starve.
Nope. As the saying goes, Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.
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      01-29-2019, 08:25 AM   #185
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But who wants to eat fish every day? Can you teach me to catch burritos and pizzas?
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      01-29-2019, 08:27 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Nope. As the saying goes, Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.
People are already provided 13 years of education. K-12. Thatís not enough?
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      01-29-2019, 08:29 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Hmmm...universal medicare - just what I want, because we all know the government has been doing a bang up job on medical care currently (see VA hospital). Tuition free college? Yup, that sounds great. Let's take the 30,000 tuition I paid for undergrad, then let's give the government 50,000 in taxes to manager the free tuition program so I can go to school and not have to pay for it. That sure sounds like a bargain to me. Accessible housing for all - we already have that, it's called section 8 housing. It is nearly always quite nice when it's first built. It's the lazy shits that live there who screw it up and make it a cesspool. Campaign finance reform - not sure what you are getting with this, I am for this and so is pretty much 99% of the entire USA population.

That is true 100% of the time. Give a bunch of ungrateful fucks free stuff and they will destroy it and then blame you for letting it turn to shit.
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      01-29-2019, 08:31 AM   #188
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That is true 100% of the time. Give a bunch of ungrateful fucks free stuff and they will destroy it and then blame you for letting it turn to shit.
These animals urinate in their own elevators. My old dog, rip, had better sense.
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      01-29-2019, 08:33 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
People are already provided 13 years of education. K-12. Thatís not enough?
No.
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      01-29-2019, 08:33 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
No.
Well... at least you are honest. We disagree.
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      01-29-2019, 08:38 AM   #191
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Well... at least you are honest. We disagree.
Who says the cut off should be grade 12? Vocational schools are part of the public school system and should be more accessible to those who want to take advantage of them to acquire a specific skill.
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      01-29-2019, 08:43 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Yeah. Universal medicare, tuition-free public college and trade school, accessible housing for all, campaign-finance reform, etc. All sounds really bad
So I know it all sounds good but also really expensive. Kathleen Wynne implemented huge changes in Ontario post secondary tuition just before the election that are now being rolled back because they are not sustainable.

Every time someone uses the term free and government they seem to forget to mention that the government isn't paying for it.....the taxpayers are. So I get what you're saying but it will mean huge tax increases on every single american and I suspect that won't fly.
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      01-29-2019, 08:44 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
For a country with extensive private healthcare the US spends an exorbitant amount of public funds. the system needs reform.
This is mostly due to the inability to sell insurance across state lines, which causes an average of 20-30% of the healthcare costs to be attributed to health insurance admin. The FDA has such an onerous approval plan for new drugs that it costs on average $1 billion dollars to bring a new drug to market. This is then recouped by selling prices. The courts have failed to institute tort reform (mostly due to democrat lobbying), and as such, malpractice claims are ridiculously high, causing insurance premiums for doctors to be astronomical which are passed on to consumers. Most of the medical care costs in the USA are a direct result of overreach by the government. More government control will make it worse, not better.

https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/fu...lth-care-costs
https://www.investopedia.com/article...pensive-us.asp
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellieki.../#7d9ff89c76b6
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-acc....php?aid=66253


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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
We are talking about public/vocational schools here...not universities. At one time vocational schools were free or nearly free. The output of those vocational schools is taxpaying employees...what's wrong with that?
Because (1) the government is horribly inefficient and it will end up costing too much, (2) if there is not personal sacrifice to make an effort to fund your own education, then people won't work as hard and learn as much since there is no accountability, and (3) the cost for trade school, vocational schools, and community college 2 year associates degrees are quite cheap in the USA. Right now, through money generated by the sale of lottery tickets in 39 of 50 states, if a student graduates from high school with a 'C' average or better (2.0gpa), then they can go to any state community college or trade school completely free. Even if they don't take advantage of that program, the average 2 year degree cost in the USA is only $15,824. The average salary of someone with an associates degree versus a high school graduate in America is $40,820 vs $30,500 - so that is a payback period of the investment of only about 18mos - that is a fantastic ROI. This system is working, contrary to what you hear on the news.

https://associatesdegrees.com/associ...verage-salary/
https://work.chron.com/average-salar...gree-1861.html
https://college.issaonline.edu/cost-of-attendance/


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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Maybe section 8 housing vouchers isn't the answer. How do you instil pride of ownership if there isn't some form of investment?
Most section-8 housing isn't free, it is just heavily subsidized and limited to certain income levels, so there is some accountability. The problem lies in the fact, that with a few exceptions, it is nearly impossible to be legitimately poor in America for an extended period of time. As such, anyone who lives life within that poverty bubble is doing it simply because they don't have the desire to make the effort required to move up the economic ladder - i.e. they are lazy. There are of course some minor exceptions to this rule, but by and large it holds true.


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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Is there regulation that prohibits campaign donations from lobbyists etc. or is the only requirement to disclose these contributions?
I think you missed my point - I am saying that nearly every American has noted that the way campaign financing is done in this country is terrible and promotes too many terrible things. This is a general consensus among all citizens on both sides of the isle and isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, since nearly every politician on both sides of the political spectrum and from both major parties is entrenched in it.
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      01-29-2019, 08:54 AM   #194
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Damn 725 nice. Agreed at every turn.
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      01-29-2019, 09:19 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
These animals urinate in their own elevators. My old dog, rip, had better sense.
The same things happen in Canada, you give folks free or highly subsidized housing and many take no pride in it. They are like new and some quite nice for a bit and then urine and shit in the elevators and stairwells, I always felt bad for the folks that were there because they couldn't afford to be anywhere else. Regarding universal healthcare it's a mess in Canada, the highest line item in the budget with the most waste and really long wait times. Way to many chiefs and not enough Indians.
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      01-29-2019, 09:30 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
The same things happen in Canada, you give folks free or highly subsidized housing and many take no pride in it. They are like new and some quite nice for a bit and then urine and shit in the elevators and stairwells, I always felt bad for the folks that were there because they couldn't afford to be anywhere else. Regarding universal healthcare it's a mess in Canada, the highest line item in the budget with the most waste and really long wait times. Way to many chiefs and not enough Indians.
Come on man. Healthcare is not a mess in Canada. The system isn't perfect but it's pretty damn good.
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      01-29-2019, 09:33 AM   #197
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Roboto try looking at the cost not just what sounds nice. Read 725s posts hes deads on. Govt cannot will not as ever could fix your problems. Your problems are due to lack of effort and self responsibility. Its politics their policies only enrich themselves and make situation worse than if they never got involved, every single time.
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      01-29-2019, 09:49 AM   #198
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With all those problems and Canadians still live longer then Americans. hmmm.
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