[clemsondds]

Hey, got a 911 and thinking about trading it in for an x5m or a cayenne. Seems like you have to spend about $170k+ cayenne to get comparable performance of the x5m. There’s no x5m in my area to test so just wanted to get your thoughts. Looking at a used cayenne turbo GT or a new turbo e-hybrid. Thanks!

[offshore]

Both are great cars. You need to drive them both. If you have an option to go for e-hybrid V8 Porsche I would go for it. I’ve driven quite a few times and they are quick. E-hybrid v8’s come with ceramic brakes, and have more space in second row if you have kids. V6 hybrids are not worth looking at.

[crabman]

Spent a fair bit of time over there. I'd say, get a test drive; they're not that rare, and you shouldn't have to travel very far to get a taste.

A few specifics, some objective, others subjective...

I think the Cayenne is a better car, primarily for two reasons: You can do the Porsche thing and get it more specifically optioned, and better road feel.

The major downside with the Cayenne is that it's much more expensive but only marginally better. The tech also feels a little behind the BMW stuff, I notice this the most with the ACC, Innodrive isn't bad but it lags behind what you get in the BMW.

The lows on the X5M would start with the lack of physical buttons. They moved too many into the GUI and some of those are buried multiple interactions. The main offender is the ACC distance spacing. For some reason, an entire group of employees, who should immediately be terminated, and then escorted from the building before they can do more harm to the brand, decided it should be taken off the wheel and buried 5 clicks deep into the GUI.

That one is extremely aggravating. There is an auto spacing function which does little but gaurentee that you will never have a natural spacing that is suitable for the driving condition. To get around it I've programmed a gesture to go directly to the setting so I can adjust on the fly, but it's a colossal bit of stupid that easily tops my list of downsides.

Could go either way is the sizing, the X5 is bigger, what that means is up to you.

[Brandt51]

Originally Posted by crabman

The lows on the X5M would start with the lack of physical buttons. They moved too many into the GUI and some of those are buried multiple interactions. The main offender is the ACC distance spacing. For some reason, an entire group of employees, who should immediately be terminated, and then escorted from the building before they can do more harm to the brand, decided it should be taken off the wheel and buried 5 clicks deep into the GUI.

Dayum! That’s silly as hell. I’d be livid. We lucked out and got one of the last ‘23 pre LCI rigs.

My only experience with Porsche was with a pretty standard 911 convertible and it was so nice and refined. The X5M is an amazing rig and a bargain compared to its comparible Cayenne counterparts. But can’t discount Porsche quality. Even if it’s gonna cost big after selecting 3 additional options.

Their huge list of available options and selections is pretty damn cool though. I’m curious how long it takes to deliver.

[crabman]

No, I think the Porsche is the better car, but the difference isn't what it was; BMWs feels very well screwed together nowadays. All cars are getting so good the delta has been reduced to what, for me, is a meaningful enough to affect my purchasing decisions.

Over at MB we were talking about this concept and a man pointed out that he had purchased a Mazda CX90 and was thrilled with the car. He drives all over the area for work, and didn't want to put miles on his S class, so he was looking for less expensive ride for that and ended up in with the Mazda.

It's not that the Mazda really compares, it's that it does so well comparatively at less than half the cost. It's an extreme example but it's the same concept for me.

I had the feeling more and more that the value wasn't there with Porsche, I'm a fanboy but that's something I couldn't deny. Great cars, I'm not knocking them in any way, just saying the price/value ratio wasn't working for me anymore.

Frankly after getting out of your 911 this car is going to feel like a step down in some respects. On the other hand, at the price, it's hard to beat without spending quite a bit more, it's a very satisfying drive. The only thing I'd say with certainty here, is that a Cayenne shopper should probably consider doing their due diligence, and giving one of these a spin.

[X5MC4ME]

Own a 991 911. Love it. Test drove the cayenne and it is just nothing like a 911. The handling seemed worse than the X5M (steering was better but the car was floaty in the standard and even sport modes). The Cayenne also didn’t do it for me visually. Honestly I think Porsche bribes the auto journalists for great reviews bc the Cayenne just doesn’t seem sporty at all unless you are in sport plus and crank it to 11.


The X5M ride quality is similar to my 911 with sport PASM. It is a firm but comfortable ride. The handling is responsive but nowhere near a 911.


Overall I thought the X5M was a wonderful sporty SUV and a much better value than the Cayenne. If you need max performance the Cayenne Turbo GT is clearly faster (and truly one of the most hideous cars Porsche has ever built IMO).


X

[clemsondds]

Originally Posted by X5MC4ME

Own a 991 911. Love it. Test drove the cayenne and it is just nothing like a 911. The handling seemed worse than the X5M (steering was better but the car was floaty in the standard and even sport modes). The Cayenne also didn’t do it for me visually. Honestly I think Porsche bribes the auto journalists for great reviews bc the Cayenne just doesn’t seem sporty at all unless you are in sport plus and crank it to 11.


The X5M ride quality is similar to my 911 with sport PASM. It is a firm but comfortable ride. The handling is responsive but nowhere near a 911.


Overall I thought the X5M was a wonderful sporty SUV and a much better value than the Cayenne. If you need max performance the Cayenne Turbo GT is clearly faster (and truly one of the most hideous cars Porsche has ever built IMO).


X

Thank you! Which cayenne did you test drive if you don’t mind me asking?
Any other thoughts? Anyone test the turbo GT (or turbo/gts) and compare?

[rybocf]

Since we're throwing in opinions.

I have a 2017 C7 Grand Sport Corvette and current generation X5M. I have ALWAYS been a Porsche fanboy. I went to Atlanta a drove some different 911 configurations because the famous 911 was going to be next for me. I left underwhelmed enough that I decided I am not going to buy a Porsche.

Reasoning, and it's ALL personal preference: I love the feel a hammer going around the track more than a scalpel. The brute roar of an 8 cyclinder, torque, and "weightiness" is more my thing. It's same reason I love the M5 around a track more than the M3 - it just feels better to me. I couldn't wait to get out of the Cayman GT4, blah. But people love that car.

Moral of the story, drive them around, go to track days, and find what speaks to you. I keep coming back to my X5M because it's almost the perfect blend of what I want. Brute force, good sound, can take a corner, comfortable to drive on long trips, generally easy to get in and out of except crushing my nuts on the bolster, roomy enough, and can hold its own with some really high-end vehicles while generally blending into the rest of the world without people gawking. And I decided I like the feel of my C7 over a 911, a car I will never get rid of because I don't see Chevy making another Grand Sport manual transmission ever again.

[clemsondds]

Originally Posted by crabman

No, I think the Porsche is the better car, but the difference isn't what it was; BMWs feels very well screwed together nowadays. All cars are getting so good the delta has been reduced to what, for me, is a meaningful enough to affect my purchasing decisions.

Over at MB we were talking about this concept and a man pointed out that he had purchased a Mazda CX90 and was thrilled with the car. He drives all over the area for work, and didn't want to put miles on his S class, so he was looking for less expensive ride for that and ended up in with the Mazda.

It's not that the Mazda really compares, it's that it does so well comparatively at less than half the cost. It's an extreme example but it's the same concept for me.

I had the feeling more and more that the value wasn't there with Porsche, I'm a fanboy but that's something I couldn't deny. Great cars, I'm not knocking them in any way, just saying the price/value ratio wasn't working for me anymore.

Frankly after getting out of your 911 this car is going to feel like a step down in some respects. On the other hand, at the price, it's hard to beat without spending quite a bit more, it's a very satisfying drive. The only thing I'd say with certainty here, is that a Cayenne shopper should probably consider doing their due diligence, and giving one of these a spin.

Thank you! Very good points! I agree with you in that I feel the ROI for the ultra top cayenne is not as great as the 911 versions. I think the money you put in for the higher 911 variants is equivalent to the enjoyment and less depreciation, but due to the significant drop in depreciation of the turbo GT or turbo cayenne…just not sure it’s worth it over a x5m. I don’t want to be thinking about putting miles on my daily…and if you have a Porsche and care about depreciation at all…you have to limit the miles. People that say Porsche owners don’t care about depreciation or money are just ignorant. In every high end brand, there are those that care about depreciation and those that don’t…no matter the yearly income. So I’m thinking the x5m might be a good way to go, especially if I could find a used/certified 2024. Looks like you lose about $20k right off the lot (better than m8gc ha…that’s about $40k). But that happens with all cars and I understand that…the plus is that you are the only owner and get to pick your exact spec. Anyway, would love your thoughts. I’m really battling between a turbo GT 22/23 or an x5m. Turbo GT obviously handles curves better, and the x5m has more creature comforts (sunroof, massage…) and might be a little more raw v8 fun. Sound about right?

[X5MC4ME]

Originally Posted by clemsondds

Thank you! Which cayenne did you test drive if you don’t mind me asking?
Any other thoughts? Anyone test the turbo GT (or turbo/gts) and compare?

Tried the Turbo, S, and GTS. (All 2021-2023). Don’t buy any build quality hype these cars share platform and build quality with Audi. The BMW interior actually had better leather quality and plastic quality. And again, I love Porsche and own two…but the Cayenne is truly just an Audi IMO. 10% stiffer suspension and better steering feel are the differences. The coupe body style put me off so much I never tested the GT. I'd rather have an X5M and an M3 for the same scratch.

X

[crabman]

Originally Posted by clemsondds

Thank you! Very good points! I agree with you in that I feel the ROI for the ultra top cayenne is not as great as the 911 versions. I think the money you put in for the higher 911 variants is equivalent to the enjoyment and less depreciation, but due to the significant drop in depreciation of the turbo GT or turbo cayenne…just not sure it’s worth it over a x5m. I don’t want to be thinking about putting miles on my daily…and if you have a Porsche and care about depreciation at all…you have to limit the miles. People that say Porsche owners don’t care about depreciation or money are just ignorant. In every high end brand, there are those that care about depreciation and those that don’t…no matter the yearly income. So I’m thinking the x5m might be a good way to go, especially if I could find a used/certified 2024. Looks like you lose about $20k right off the lot (better than m8gc ha…that’s about $40k). But that happens with all cars and I understand that…the plus is that you are the only owner and get to pick your exact spec. Anyway, would love your thoughts. I’m really battling between a turbo GT 22/23 or an x5m. Turbo GT obviously handles curves better, and the x5m has more creature comforts (sunroof, massage…) and might be a little more raw v8 fun. Sound about right?

You owe yourself a test drive. They nailed the fun factor on the X5M, it's not easy for me to define that other than to say it's always a hoot. The engine, the way they tuned the suspension, steering, etc. It all works toward that end.

If anything, I think some might say too well; it's always on and there is no soft mode. The throttle response is sharp, and it's a firm ride, even in normal.

In the day to day, the car always says yes. Big square box, no problem. Want to have a little fun, its got you covered. Need to make a longer road trip, the cruise is among the best in the business, and its got your back.

Certainly the depreciation is a downside, hurts buying or leasing. Not sure that you're going to do a whole lot better elsewhere in that regard; seems to be par for the segment.

Used would save a boat load, no question.

[eelnoraa]

A coworker just went through the same choices, cayeen s vs x5m. I went for a test drive with him. Very premitive impression based in 15 min seat time in front passenger seat.

- cayenne is significantly smaller in interior width and trunk size. Didn’t get a chance to evaluate leg room before coworker is 6-3. Behind him is small for his driven position.

- cayenne is also noticeably lower. The ingress abd egress difference is obvious.

- cayenne s sounds better than x5m. X5m is loud but obviously sound is fake

- x5m is more raw, tighter suspension, more responsive engine. Cayenne S is a more refine. PDK is amazingly good.

I didn’t pay attention to msrp of the two cars. A week later, he comes to work in Cayenne S. For me, I wont say I feel comfortable affordsing cayenne, but even I do, it is a too small of car for my usage. X5 will be a better family car although it isn’t they great to begin with.

[crabman]

It's not the PDK, it's an 8 speed auto.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Interesting comparison...over to you folks for your opinion on the same theme as OP asked. Of course, OP is asking your opinion...I get that...still interesting comparison.

[crabman]

Leave the dollars out of the equation and the two have some give and take. Add it in and there isn't really any good comparison. The Cayenne S is 140 the way I option it, but its direct competitor in terms of power and positioning is the M60i at more than 30k less. Leave the dollars out and it's a tight battle, put them in and the Cayenne becomes a harder sell.

On the other hand if you look at the closest price point competitor you've got the X5M and it feels like way more car for your dollars. To in turn match it, you're going to have to spend quite a bit of ching and will face sharper depreciation on the other side.

Like I said, I was over there for a while, but the price increases have been very aggressive at Porsche, and it's much harder to say yes to than it was just a few years ago.

[Brandt51]

Does the Porsche hold its value better? When we got the replacement X5M, I put a lot into the wheels, tuning and satin wrap thinking it was silly and adds zero resale value to the car. But that’s ok cause I don’t plan on replacing it. I think the ‘cheap’ M2 will be a lot more valuable than the X5M in the near future…although they both seem to be equally rare.

[Falcon900]

I just sold my 2022 911 to the BMW dealer after I traded my 2023 Defender in for the X5M. I would have saved a lot more on taxes if I had traded them both in for the X5M. I just was not using the 911 much because I just did not have time to do the things I wanted to do with it (light tracking). I did well on the Porsche, not so well on the Defender.


I was planning to get a Cayenne S, then the stop sale happened and there were a lot of questions about when I might receive the vehicle. My SA could not really give me any good information, but they were happy to take my order and a deposit. I decided to get the X5M, I had it delivered in less than a month. We have owned a Cayenne S and a Cayenne Turbo in the past, they were both very good cars.

[crabman]

To put some perspective on this, here is a carwow video. I find the guy personable, but irritating, in this format. I kinda skip ahead to the runs, that would be 7:03. It's a year old, but most of the hardware remains much the same.

Gotta take your hat off to the Tesla, I guess it's becoming normalized now, but it's still impressive to me. IMO the BMW holds up well against some significantly more expensive rides.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by crabman

To put some perspective on this, here is a carwow video. I find the guy personable, but irritating, in this format. I kinda skip ahead to the runs, that would be 7:03. It's a year old, but most of the hardware remains much the same.

Gotta take your hat off to the Tesla, I guess it's becoming normalized now, but it's still impressive to me. IMO the BMW holds up well against some significantly more expensive rides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbR64hqx4Yk&t=786s

I have to say performance is a lot more than just straight line tho.

[crabman]

True story, dat. I think the acceleration metrics are used most of the time because that's the most accessible aspect of the performance envelope. It's not easy to safely add some 1 G turns in the day to day, and braking performance is felt more in quality of bite and pedal modulation, rather than max effort braking performance.

On the other hand you can usually give yourself a taste of the power without much risk.

I didn't read any of that, it's just how it looks to me as I reflect on the way conversations tend to go, both on the forums, and in the real world. Most people will usually talk about the acceleration first, and other aspects of performance, very little, or not at all.

[Hdonuts]

I had a 21 cayenne turbo that I sold for 24 X5M. I think the tech is nice in the bmw, but the Porsche is a better vehicle overall. The BMW is very darty and lots more road noise vs the cayenne. As mentioned the Cayenne is much more money and it will depreciate terribly just like the BMW will but I still believe it’s a better vehicle.

[DjPiLL]

Originally Posted by crabman

The main offender is the ACC distance spacing. For some reason, an entire group of employees, who should immediately be terminated, and then escorted from the building before they can do more harm to the brand, decided it should be taken off the wheel and buried 5 clicks deep into the GUI.

That one is extremely aggravating. There is an auto spacing function which does little but gaurentee that you will never have a natural spacing that is suitable for the driving condition. To get around it I've programmed a gesture to go directly to the setting so I can adjust on the fly, but it's a colossal bit of stupid that easily tops my list of downsides.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the X7 LCI. After paying almost three grand for a "drivers assistance pro" package, they decide to take the spacing and hide it inside the iDrive GUI. Horrendous decision.