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      03-10-2019, 08:35 AM   #1
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Your Life is what you make of it in America

I'm tired of nut jobs like Obama, Hillary, Bernie, AOC wanting to share the wealth with a bunch of deadbeats who didn't earn it.

I used to work with a guy from the Congo, he came here at 18, went to Embry-Riddle worked hard, became an Engineer and went on to work for Lockheed Martin, was there for over 10 years.

The left telling minorities the system is rigged is doing them a disservice, it's not rigged.

People from all over the world come here and become successful!


It requires WORK, nothing is just handed to you! That should be the message from the left instead of conning them into voting for them with the promises of free everything!
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      03-10-2019, 08:52 AM   #2
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It can be hard, and difficulties abound, but it is possible. It remains possible for everyone who wants it and is willing to work through the challenges.

But the middle class dream, at least the post-WWII version, is waning. Now you can’t get a factory assembly line job, own a house, buy a car and retire securely. You have to have a college degree (that should change) to get a middle class job, which won’t be factory work and it won’t last your life or provide for retirement. But a trade is still a great career, and if you manage money well and save along the way, even changing jobs can get you the middle class dream.

Point is, the path is different today, but there are other paths available to those willing to put in the effort.
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      03-10-2019, 09:16 AM   #3
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The only nut jobs in this country are Messed Up Donnie and a good chunk of the R party.
That said, we should stay away from Bernie's or AOC's income-sharing ideas.
Hard work and being able to anticipate economic trends is the only way to financial success, long-term. But we should not allow for a society of "survival of the fittest".
There are many who are left behind although they do work hard but their skills are now stale; eventually, it will bite the rest of us, who are technically "successful".
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      03-10-2019, 09:24 AM   #4
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I'll start this of by saying that no one is more responsible for your success, or lack thereof than the person you see while brushing your teeth or shaving every day.

That said, class mobility in America is largely a myth. Over 90% of us will be born and die in the same class. The key to America is truly Equality of Opportunity. I have 2 dear friends who came up on the metaphorical wrong side of the tracks. Through scholarships they got to attend the same private HS I went to, excelled and won academic scholarships in college and went on the grad school, one in engineering and one in biz school. One is a global engineering manager for a Fortune 100 company and the other a chancellor at a mid-size university. Both make a couple hundred grand a year. They are truly exceptions.

It can be done but it is so unbelievably difficult and the minefields one must go through are legion. The true difficulty is that there is no margin for error. If something happened to me growing up, I have a multigenerational resources to stave off any challenges. For them, there was nothing. I really believe that this is the difference. I don't believe people want to be unsuccessful but fall victim to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and can never reach the self-actualization needed to progress as people and in society.

I understand that this is a vast oversimplification of the actual challenge but it stands nonetheless.

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      03-10-2019, 09:29 AM   #5
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MKSixer I don’t disagree with you but I think the class mobility thing is like physical mobility. It is possible but people choose not to. I have moved 9 times in my career for better jobs, all over the US, and would have gone overseas for the right opportunity. But I know people who won’t move 20 miles from where they grew up, no matter how poor the job prospects or how interesting the opportunity elsewhere.

If you’re not willing to relocate, or to work hard enough to move up, that’s on you. Yes both are challenging, and there is more to life than moving up so for some that is the right choice. But the potential to relocate or move up remains and in some sense that is more important than how many choose to take advantage of the opportunity.
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      03-10-2019, 09:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
It can be hard, and difficulties abound, but it is possible. It remains possible for everyone who wants it and is willing to work through the challenges.

But the middle class dream, at least the post-WWII version, is waning. Now you canít get a factory assembly line job, own a house, buy a car and retire securely. You have to have a college degree (that should change) to get a middle class job, which wonít be factory work and it wonít last your life or provide for retirement. But a trade is still a great career, and if you manage money well and save along the way, even changing jobs can get you the middle class dream.

Point is, the path is different today, but there are other paths available to those willing to put in the effort.
This is a great post!

I emboldened the part about college degree because you really don't need one depending on your geography. Here in the petrochemical corridor, basically from the Florida-Alabama state line, through Houston, there is a economic bubble that has an entire class of VERY high paying jobs that don't require a college degree. And while the jobs tend to be higher risk (operator, welder, oil rig jobs), they all pay massive money for someone with only a HS education or Associates degree.

I know it's not easy for everyone to move to where a job is but that's sometimes required. I know that it has been necessary for me for multiple positions.

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      03-10-2019, 09:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
MKSixer I donít disagree with you but I think the class mobility thing is like physical mobility. It is possible but people choose not to. I have moved 9 times in my career for better jobs, all over the US, and would have gone overseas for the right opportunity. But I know people who wonít move 20 miles from where they grew up, no matter how poor the job prospects or how interesting the opportunity elsewhere.

If youíre not willing to relocate, or to work hard enough to move up, thatís on you. Yes both are challenging, and there is more to life than moving up so for some that is the right choice. But the potential to relocate or move up remains and in some sense that is more important than how many choose to take advantage of the opportunity.
Dude, you're scaring me. We had a shared brain moment.
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      03-10-2019, 09:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by menelaos View Post
The only nut jobs in this country are Messed Up Donnie and a good chunk of the R party.


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      03-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
wanting to share the wealth with a bunch of deadbeats who didn't earn it.
What if you're born with a handicap and your parents happen to be poor?

How much care and assistance in life do you deserve to get then?
I mean being a deadbeat not even remotely in the position to earn anything.
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      03-10-2019, 11:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I'm tired of nut jobs like Obama, Hillary, Bernie, AOC wanting to share the wealth with a bunch of deadbeats who didn't earn it.

I used to work with a guy from the Congo, he came here at 18, went to Embry-Riddle worked hard, became an Engineer and went on to work for Lockheed Martin, was there for over 10 years.

The left telling minorities the system is rigged is doing them a disservice, it's not rigged.

People from all over the world come here and become successful!


It requires WORK, nothing is just handed to you! That should be the message from the left instead of conning them into voting for them with the promises of free everything!
That you know one guy who made it despite a difficult starting point doesn't really prove much. There are tons of hard working people who are shit out of luck and are unable to get a job that will provide for their family for any number of reasons.

Also, watch this if you think we all have an equal starting point:


And if you agree we don't have an equal starting point, how is it fair to not redistribute some wealth to the less fortunate?
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      03-10-2019, 12:14 PM   #11
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As someone who moved to the states at 18, went to school here and paid for it on my own, I do agree with the op, life here is what you make of it.

Is the playing field leveled, no, but life isn't fair and you have to make best of it. No matter what this is the best place in the world to live. As a teenager I have lived in Germany and the left should see how immigrants are treated there before they judge how bad it's here for immigrants.

Have I stayed I Europe I could have only dreamed of owning an m3 and this country has taken me on as one of its own. Given me the opportunity for higher education, a great career, my own house, and not to mention 3 m3's over the last 12 years. In the grand scheme of things m3 is just an icing on the cake.
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      03-10-2019, 12:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybris View Post
That you know one guy who made it despite a difficult starting point doesn't really prove much. There are tons of hard working people who are shit out of luck and are unable to get a job that will provide for their family for any number of reasons.

Also, watch this if you think we all have an equal starting point:


And if you agree we don't have an equal starting point, how is it fair to not redistribute some wealth to the less fortunate?
The whole premise of that video is ludicrous as is your notion that redistribution based on this perceived starting point is justified.

The video is basically saying that the decisions of your parents benefits/handicaps you and that society is responsible for punishing/benefiting you based on their decisions. Why should my daughter be penalized because I choose to work hard and be successful or someone else be given an advantage because their parents made a minimal effort in life?

If you accept the idea that some people that have a financial head start in life, you must also accept the idea that some people have the intellectual/work ethic/etc advantage as well. A barely functional idiot starting on the 50 yard line will be quickly surpassed by a brilliant motivated person starting from the back of the end zone. How do you account for this disparity in natural ability in conjunction with your simplistic definition of "less fortunate?"
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      03-10-2019, 12:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybris View Post
That you know one guy who made it despite a difficult starting point doesn't really prove much. There are tons of hard working people who are shit out of luck and are unable to get a job that will provide for their family for any number of reasons.

Also, watch this if you think we all have an equal starting point:


And if you agree we don't have an equal starting point, how is it fair to not redistribute some wealth to the less fortunate?
Have you been in LA? more and more businesses are owned by Asians that came here with nothing. Not isolated cases, the American dream is real!
I have a lot of respect for them, they believe in hard work and it shows.
They send their kids to school, believe in education, not buying the lies of the Left that the government will solve your problems.

Per 100,000 of any ethnic group population, Asians have lower high school drop out rate than even Whites, lower incarceration rate than even Whites.
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      03-10-2019, 12:39 PM   #14
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Regardless of your race, you can go to a trade school, become a plumber, carpenter etc. You'll do very well for yourself!

The professional panhandler like Obama should stop demagoguing their people for votes, they're not helping!
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      03-10-2019, 12:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
What if you're born with a handicap and your parents happen to be poor?

How much care and assistance in life do you deserve to get then?
I mean being a deadbeat not even remotely in the position to earn anything.
A handicapped is not a deadbeat, so that didn't even make sense!

Being poor in America doesn't stop you from going to college ir a trade school!

Carpenters, plumbers, mechanics make good money, a friend of mine had an open position for a Diesel mechanic for 2 months.($28 per hour, full benefits)
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      03-10-2019, 01:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post

If you accept the idea that some people that have a financial head start in life, you must also accept the idea that some people have the intellectual/work ethic/etc advantage as well. A barely functional idiot starting on the 50 yard line will be quickly surpassed by a brilliant motivated person starting from the back of the end zone. How do you account for this disparity in natural ability in conjunction with your simplistic definition of "less fortunate?"
So in your opinion, the only ones who are not making it in USA are people who are either lazy or stupid?
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      03-10-2019, 01:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybris View Post
That you know one guy who made it despite a difficult starting point doesn't really prove much. There are tons of hard working people who are shit out of luck and are unable to get a job that will provide for their family for any number of reasons.

Also, watch this if you think we all have an equal starting point:


And if you agree we don't have an equal starting point, how is it fair to not redistribute some wealth to the less fortunate?
A very good video that definitely should cause one to pause and reflect on what was stated.

I would NOT have made many steps forward BUT, because of that, I elected early on to bust my butt in an effort to escape the life I was born into. As such, my opinion is that despite the many challenges in life, hard work can lead to success. Now, all that said, I have no doubt my journey was easier than it was/is for some for a variety of reasons and therein lies a big part of the problem as pointed out in the video. When the odds are against you, it's pretty damn hard to develop/nurture/keep/maintain a positive agenda.

When it comes to redistribution of wealth and the "fairness" of that principle, I have no problem helping those less fortunate IF they* embrace the concept of self worth and make a sincere effort to get ahead. If, on the other hand, they choose to make no, or minimal, effort, why should I be subsidizing their lifestyle?

* By "they" I mean those physically/mentally able to do so.

As far as an "equal starting point" is concerned, that's simply not going to happen - it's called life so we have to play the hand we have been dealt.

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      03-10-2019, 01:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Being poor in America doesn't stop you from going to college ir a trade school!

Carpenters, plumbers, mechanics make good money, a friend of mine had an open position for a Diesel mechanic for 2 months.($28 per hour, full benefits)
Lots of people in the US have minimum wage jobs, and can't easily find something else. They still work hard, and perhaps work two or even three different jobs to make ends meet. If they have two kids who both want to go to college and university, they can't, can they? While a different family with different means, can go to a ivy league university. Surely you agree the kids of those two families don't have an equal starting point?

One popular way of solving that problem is free college and free university. Works great in most European countries. I happily pay my taxes to ensure all young people who wants to take higher education can do just that, regardless of the income level of their parents.
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      03-10-2019, 01:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Regardless of your race, you can go to a trade school, become a plumber, carpenter etc. You'll do very well for yourself!

The professional panhandler like Obama should stop demagoguing their people for votes, they're not helping!
You believe in America, yet you fail to understand it's Constitution. Please clarify.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Under the context of this, welfare, is meant to provide poor people with a minimal level of well-being, by either a free, or a subsidized-supply of certain goods and social services, such as healthcare, education, and vocational training.

We will always have the poor, as it has been throughout man's history, and likewise the rich will always have them for comparison.

If I understand you correctly, you seem to be implying that making it in America means to accumulate wealth. Comparing yourself to that of your younger self, you should therefore be much happier now, than you were then.
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      03-10-2019, 01:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
A handicapped is not a deadbeat, so that didn't even make sense!
you didnt answer my question (no surprise there)
I know a handicapped is not a deadbeat, but he/she usually has the same net productivity as one:

"A deadbeat is an adult, age 18 or older, who is not going to school (check), living with parent(s) or friend(s) (check; not able to), is not working or looking for a job (check, because handicapped) and does not help out with household or yard work chores (check because well...handicapped)".

Imho for these people (handicapped) life is certainly not what you make of it opposed to what you say and believe.
Not everyone is born the same!

I also think that childrend born to poor people should get the chances rich kids get. That means at least good healthcare and a chance on a good education.
And those are things the US just doesnt score very good on, compared to other western world countries. I guess there are just more selfish people in the US than in other countries.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 03-10-2019 at 01:19 PM..
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      03-10-2019, 01:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
A handicapped is not a deadbeat, so that didn't even make sense!

Being poor in America doesn't stop you from going to college ir a trade school!

Carpenters, plumbers, mechanics make good money, a friend of mine had an open position for a Diesel mechanic for 2 months.($28 per hour, full benefits)
It can stop you if there's been a lifetime of poverty to deal with, no example to follow and no mentor helping to "push" you a bit...just my opinion
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      03-10-2019, 01:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by hybris View Post
I happily pay my taxes to ensure all young people who wants to take higher education can do just that, regardless of the income level of their parents.
In a nutshell here is the difference between the European and American mindset.

For now...
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