[mrjoed45]

Originally Posted by MADBMWX5MC

I always disable the damn thing...

+1 !

[crabman]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I have never said anything of the sort. Perhaps you need to read, and more importantly understand, posts prior to replying to them.

lol Never said anything of the sort? Here are your words quoted exactly---> "The reasons for disabling it stem from lack of knowledge of the system, not wanting to change, perception of how old systems work, political reasons, etc"

You are aware people can scroll up correct? I'd suggest you try it. You did say it, deny it all you want. Pretend you meant something else if that's your groove.

I'm not here to win the internet, the last word is yours.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by crabman

lol Never said anything of the sort? Here are your words quoted exactly---> "The reasons for disabling it stem from lack of knowledge of the system, not wanting to change, perception of how old systems work, political reasons, etc"

You are aware people can scroll up correct? I'd suggest you try it. You did say it, deny it all you want. Pretend you meant something else if that's your groove.

I'm not here to win the internet, the last word is yours.

And nothing there is what you were referring to. Again, reading and understanding is important.

I can't speak to you specifically, as you may be different, but in general a lack of knowledge of a topic, or not wanting to change, does not imply a person it too stupid to learn it or do it.

[GREENPUS]

I can live without ASS. I dislike the bump. When my X6 is acting weird, it’s either in Comfort mode or Sport Plus mode. Comfort mode is too bumpy from ASS and Sport Plus is too jerky and loud lol

[SteVTEC]

I just disable it by going to Sport Individual or Sport whenever I drive. Need to code it but haven't gotten around to it yet. I let it shut down at a few lights where I know it's a long wait, but otherwise no. Whatever drops of fuel saved are not going to be worth risking internal engine damage (bearing wear issues, timing chain, guides, cam issues, etc.) or who knows what that could occur. I would trust a Toyota here, and know they've made a lot of specific enhancements to their engines over the past few decades to specifically handle high start/stop cycles for their hybrid engines, but don't trust that BMW has done the same. Also, timing system is at the back on B58, which pretty much means an engine out procedure to fix anything in the timing system. Engine cutting in/out as you're trying to pull into or out of a parking space, and having to tap the accelerator to get it going again when you just want idle level thrust on the unlocked torque converter is really friggin stupid.

[jad03060]

The PHEV uses ‘tow start’ mode most of the time, and the engine on startup is about as seamless as it probably gets. Does the mild hybrid try to do that as well? It only uses the physical starter motor under certain circumstances, but even then, doesn’t seem top be rough.

On the PHEV, the most common way the ICE is enabled is for the EV motor to get the vehicle rolling, and if needed, the clutches then close to tow start the ICE…no lurches, no jerks, just smooth. A typical starter motor is not variable speed, so can be a bit more abrupt.

[davchr]

“…they must be Maga morons…”
What is a “Maga moron”? Any person that has beliefs that differ from yours?

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The PHEV uses ‘tow start’ mode most of the time, and the engine on startup is about as seamless as it probably gets. Does the mild hybrid try to do that as well? It only uses the physical starter motor under certain circumstances, but even then, doesn’t seem top be rough.

On the PHEV, the most common way the ICE is enabled is for the EV motor to get the vehicle rolling, and if needed, the clutches then close to tow start the ICE…no lurches, no jerks, just smooth. A typical starter motor is not variable speed, so can be a bit more abrupt.

In my opinion the mild hybrid is near enough seemless, not a problem for me.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

It is implemented very well. In my opinion, with a little understanding of how the system works and what to expect, there really is no technical/physical reason to disable it. The reasons for disabling it stem from lack of knowledge of the system, not wanting to change, perception of how old systems work, political reasons, etc.

So what specific enhancements have BMW made to their engines to handle the extremely high numbers of stop/start cycles that ASS enables? How many thousands or tens of thousands of stop/start cycles did BMW put their engines through during testing, what stress points were found, and what enhancements did they make to allow for long-term reliability? What impact does the 48V mild-hybrid system have?

I'll grant you, it's so smooth that you almost don't even notice it which is a good sign. The engine doesn't feel stressed or jerky when this is happening, but how is BMW assuring us that we should just let ASS run, and that long-term engine damage and extremely costly out of warranty and engine out repairs to address any issues won't be the result 6-10 years down the road?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

So what specific enhancements have BMW made to their engines to handle the extremely high numbers of stop/start cycles that ASS enables? How many thousands or tens of thousands of stop/start cycles did BMW put their engines through during testing, what stress points were found, and what enhancements did they make to allow for long-term reliability? What impact does the 48V mild-hybrid system have?

I'll grant you, it's so smooth that you almost don't even notice it which is a good sign. The engine doesn't feel stressed or jerky when this is happening, but how is BMW assuring us that we should just let ASS run, and that long-term engine damage and extremely costly engine out or warranty repairs to address any issues won't be the result 6-10 years down the road?

I have never looked into it and have no reason to do so. They designed the system to work and I trust that it will. Personally I think worrying about it wearing things out is foolish. The vehicle is engineered to be used in my opinion, that is what I get them for. Things break at times, we either fix it or move on. Worrying about something happening is not worth it to me.

Since they have been using some version of stop/start for quite a long time now and we have not seen any common issues I would assume they have it handled.

[X3andPlanes]

This is the million dollar question! I totally agree. Need to see some data/ evidence.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by X3andPlanes

This is the million dollar question! I totally agree. Need to see some data/ evidence.

Exactly, all evidence/data shows that there is no problem with the stop/start system. Until we see something there is no need to worry about that aspect of it.

[tomhartman]

Enough already…some people would bitch if you hung ‘em with a new rope.

Perfect is the enemy of good—-failure to understand this is a sure recipe for miserableness.

[crabman]

If it exists, it can break or fail and there are multiple wear components. There is no data I've seen that shows 48v start/stop systems having a failure rate at all, whether good or bad, and I just looked again and didn't find anything. I'd be interested if someone does have a link to research or data on the subject.

I separated out 48V because that's the way things are going and the data I can find on older systems often includes that from systems that were comparatively crude. It would be meaningless to compare that to current technology.

You would also have to define what is included as an ASS failure. Depending on the model BMW uses electric on demand oil and water pumps, case heaters, ceramic bearings, and other technologies to improve reliability and reduce accelerated wear caused by ASS. Do you include a case heater as an ASS failure? Not trying to make an argument here, only saying that it's an integrated system involving more than just the starting components themselves, and every part of the system is subject to failure. It's an unavoidable consequence.

Realistically, whatever the failure rate may be, you have to ask if it's meaningful. If you're in it for the long haul, or buying used, it wouldn't be unreasonable to favor caution. A person rolling from one lease to the next; I mean, why worry about it? If it were a problem in the near term, you'd know about it by now.

[LuckyBrand]

The newer BMW systems are pretty quiet on the outside but if I'm at a long line at the gas station I can here other cars start stop activating constantly. Some cars will stop start 5 or 6 times just waiting for gas.

Like some have said if you lease I guess it doesn't matter on if you feel it's reliable or not. You'll never get that far to care. If your owning 6 to 10 years maybe so. In the end you just have to either use it or disable it and enjoy the car. I find it annoying so I'll disable it and enjoy it that way. I absolutely love this suv so I have the choice either way.

[Caveno]

I hate the ASS on my 760. It’s a pointless system and bmw knows it. They need to please the EPA as they are forcing automakers to meet unrealistic emissions standards.

However I don’t buy the argument it’s bad for your engine. A lot of engineering went into this usless system - beefed up crankshaft, adding an electric motor to transmission which does the restart and also adds 10hp if I believe, plus many other changes well documented online.

It’s just annoying for some people, including myself. Im driving 140k car and somehow Im worry about wasting gas at a stop sign?

I hate that the ac gets week and that I feel shutdown / startup. It makes me feel like I’m driving a shitty car that keeps stalling.

[BSfmAZ]

Originally Posted by matowi

I know I’m stirring up an ants’ nest here, yet… for reasons unknown to me, the a-s-s implementation in my M60i is so good, I find no reasons to complain or to look for a way to go around it (I.e. to disable it)

Works like a charm - no vibrations whatsoever when killing or reengaging the engine. The engine stays off for a decent time, and I’m sure I’m saving a nontrivial amount of gas thanks to it

I must be getting old, lazy or complacent (previously I killed the a-s-s in all my cars which had it)…

Not sure u would feel the same sitting in heavy traffic like the DC beltway, or some freeway in CA It really depends on your situation. I would never own my m60i if I was still in DC area. Drove a manual 525 touring sometimes in stop n go traffic, and it’s a killer, can't imagine a m60i in the same situation. Just my thoughts.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BSfmAZ

Not sure u would feel the same sitting in heavy traffic like the DC beltway, or some freeway in CA It really depends on your situation. I would never own my m60i if I was still in DC area. Drove a manual 525 touring sometimes in stop n go traffic, and it’s a killer, can't imagine a m60i in the same situation. Just my thoughts.

I'm not following you, what is it about the M60i that you wouldn't want to drive around major cities with it?

[jad03060]

Car manufacturers are just following the regulations, and ASS helps them meet the letter of the law and helps prevent them from having to charge people a gas guzzler add-on.

When the engine is off, it’s also not spewing CO2 and other gasses into the atmosphere. So, it’s not all about saving gasoline costs for people…it’s improving the efficiently of the fleet.

Around the US Gulf coast, from 2010-2021, in more than one spot, the tidal gauges have recorded a bit over 6” rise of the water level (more than twice as much rise as the previous 30-years). Then, throw in as the population increases, utilities are pumping out more water, and oil and gas exploration is still ongoing, and the land is subsiding…combine those two factors, and salt water intrusion is polluting more and more groundwater and high tide and storm flooding is hitting more and more areas much more frequently. While it’s a drop in the bucket, ASS does help a little bit. A 100-year event for NOAA means there’s a 0.01% chance of it happening, translating into a 1:100 year event. This are happening MUCH more frequently today, but are still 1 in 100 year events based on the likelihood of it happening at any one time. Maybe we need to decide to recharacterize that methodology. Just like a 40% chance of rain the way it is devised means there’s 100% chance of 40% of the area will get rain, so it’s an area prediction, not a point prediction.

When I was in Korea in the mid 70’s, most all of the drivers shut their engines off when stopped. This was way before ASS was a thing…it helped the air quality and saved them some money, otherwise, they wouldn’t have done it. It didn’t seem to slow the taxi drivers running around Seoul at the time.

[Caveno]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Car manufacturers are just following the regulations, and ASS helps them meet the letter of the law and helps prevent them from having to charge people a gas guzzler add-on.

When the engine is off, it’s also not spewing CO2 and other gasses into the atmosphere. So, it’s not all about saving gasoline costs for people…it’s improving the efficiently of the fleet.

Around the US Gulf coast, from 2010-2021, in more than one spot, the tidal gauges have recorded a bit over 6” rise of the water level (more than twice as much rise as the previous 30-years). Then, throw in as the population increases, utilities are pumping out more water, and oil and gas exploration is still ongoing, and the land is subsiding…combine those two factors, and salt water intrusion is polluting more and more groundwater and high tide and storm flooding is hitting more and more areas much more frequently. While it’s a drop in the bucket, ASS does help a little bit. A 100-year event for NOAA means there’s a 0.01% chance of it happening, translating into a 1:100 year event. This are happening MUCH more frequently today, but are still 1 in 100 year events based on the likelihood of it happening at any one time. Maybe we need to decide to recharacterize that methodology. Just like a 40% chance of rain the way it is devised means there’s 100% chance of 40% of the area will get rain, so it’s an area prediction, not a point prediction.

When I was in Korea in the mid 70’s, most all of the drivers shut their engines off when stopped. This was way before ASS was a thing…it helped the air [...]

So if I understand correctly all the billions spent on ASS will save the planet?

[matowi]

Not by itself

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

It's done purely to appease bureaucrats. They get a boost to cafe numbers by having it, and cafe numbers drive fines the oems have to pay, which drive prices.

That's why car prices have gone up so much. The EPA says they have to have a fleet averaged mixed use mog over like 50mog, and if they don't they have to pay large fines to the EPA.

It's all a scam. It artificially drives up the price of vehicles and since the automakers pass it along, you don't blame the government you blame them. Automakers should make it a line item on the MSRP like destination fees. CAFE Fees of thousands of dollars on every new vehicle monroney would start to wake up people some.

Think you missed the point of what was being asked.

While I share a similar sentiment in the form of I DO NOT LIKE IT. Your message is not fully correct.

Car prices have NOT gone up due to EPA requirements, there are a slew of things that have cause the prices to increase. The value of the currency, the amount of stuff cars have these days (some of it unnecessary for most), you name it.

As far as the beaurocrats, well, while not voted in, the people who appoint them are and if the majority are voting those in, well what can you do?

Your last statement is wildly incorrect. It is far from a scam. The use of ASS does produce less emission. An idling car produces a bit of emission as it does burn gasoline while sitting there. The impact on gas mileage is also noticeable. I do not use it and 95% of the driving in the X5 is city and it gets 18 MPG withASS off, with ASS on I can get closer to 20 MPG, I just prefer not to use it. As far as the money/cost part, I have already said that there are a lot of other things influencing the price of a car.

As far as some claiming that those not using the system do not understand it. That is also a wild statement. A lot of us fully understand the system. I like to keep my cars for many years and I prefer not to change starters frequently. I also do not like the vibration and the fact that the AC gets all muggy (not dehumidifying since its not running). So to me there are no benefits that can scientifically tell me to use it.