[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Di3s3l_Power

CEO memo is more general, he / BMW USA is not going into detailed timeline and if or could

One thing I am gleaning from his wording is that the 45e batteries will not meet the requirements. I could be wrong given the other mistakes in the memo but have a feeling that is what he is saying.

[espressoo]

Once the MSRP and AGI rules kicks in, I'd be curious to see how well the x45e sells vs the x40i. Base price difference is $1,800 but with the $7,500 tax incentive the x45e was $5,700 cheaper which was a great selling point.

Once the x50e is released, it better have double the range on electric or improved charging to remain compelling to potential buyers. I'm sure it will continue to sell but unlike the situation with the x45e, allocations was scarce.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Once the MSRP and AGI rules kicks in, I'd be curious to see how well the x45e sells vs the x40i. Base price difference is $1,800 but with the $7,500 tax incentive the x45e was $5,700 cheaper which was a great selling point.

Once the x50e is released, it better have double the range on electric or improved charging to remain compelling to potential buyers. I'm sure it will continue to sell but unlike the situation with the x45e, allocations was scarce.

I think it depends a lot on what gas prices do. If they continue to come down and return to "normal" levels I think it would be less incentive for folks to get the PHEV. If the stay high that could be a difference for some.

As an aside, at this point it looks like there will be little to no increase in range for the 50e.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by El Frank

Production number and Vin assigned mid-July. Ready at the factory first week of August. All that to say, I ordered a pretty loaded 45e (80k plus) and nothing was dropped from the build. I was told by my CA that most of the shortages on MY22 was because they were stocking the lines for MY23 (take it with a grain of salt). My original build MY 22 kept losing options, but when MY 23 became available, all options were available. I told them to nix the MY 22 for MY 23 (I really wanted the MY 22 to avoid tax issues but I gambled with the MY 23 - I guess not completely off the hook with the tax legislation plus MY 23 is not listed yet on the tax credit site).

You should be fine. It is very unlikely we will see the guidance from the Secretary anytime soon. Don't worry about the tax site, there is always a lag in updating that at the beginning of the MY and then also add in the changing rules who knows when it will be done.

[espressoo]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

As an aside, at this point it looks like there will be little to no increase in range for the 50e.

Can you point to where you came to this conclusion? The current 31 miles on electric only is pretty low. Even getting to 50 miles would be a great improvement. It would allow a lot more people to get to-from work without charging in-between.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Can you point to where you came to this conclusion? The current 31 miles on electric only is pretty low. Even getting to 50 miles would be a great improvement. It would allow a lot more people to get to-from work without charging in-between.

The drivetrain has already been released in Europe and there hasn't been an increase. Actually some are pointing to a decrease in range for some regions. There is some discussion of it in this thread.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...light=increase

[nordring]

Biden will sign the Inflation Reduction Act tomorrow, Tuesday, August 16, which means TODAY is the last day to qualify for the “old” EV Tax credit. (for vehicles assembled outside of North America)

https://electrek.co/2022/08/15/biden...ng-ev-credits/

[Brigitte]

So they are going to issue a list of the vehicles that qualify for the new tax credit and the amount they qualify for?

"This leaves out most electric vehicles on sale today, including the GMC Hummer EV, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Mercedes-Benz EQS. Porsche Taycan, and Toyota bZ4X, based either on price or country of origin. The law requires the Treasury Department to release an official list by the end of the year.

The Treasury Department is expected to release an official list by the end of the year."


https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...car-tax-credit

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Brigitte

So they are going to issue a list of the vehicles that qualify for the new tax credit and the amount they qualify for?

"This leaves out most electric vehicles on sale today, including the GMC Hummer EV, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Mercedes-Benz EQS. Porsche Taycan, and Toyota bZ4X, based either on price or country of origin. The law requires the Treasury Department to release an official list by the end of the year.

The Treasury Department is expected to release an official list by the end of the year."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...car-tax-credit

The law does not require the Treasury Department to issue a list of vehicles that qualify. Hopefully that will happen at some point but likey will be by another department such as the EPA like it is now.

IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall issue such regulations or other guidance as the Secretary determines necessary to carry out the purposes of this subsection, including regulations or other guidance which provides for requirements for recordkeeping or information reporting for purposes of administering the requirements of this subsection.

[Brigitte]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

The law does not require the Treasury Department to issue a list of vehicles that qualify. Hopefully that will happen at some point but likey will be by another department such as the EPA like it is now.

IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall issue such regulations or other guidance as the Secretary determines necessary to carry out the purposes of this subsection, including regulations or other guidance which provides for requirements for recordkeeping or information reporting for purposes of administering the requirements of this subsection.

Articles are full of mistakes. It would be good to have a list including the tax credit amount each vehicle qualifies for...

[p0d5gs]

I'm in Bay Area, my 23 X5 45e has 8/29 as production date so I guess it won't arrive until late Sep. I'm trying to sign a purchase agreement with my dealer but my SA told me they are not allowed to do anything binding until the car arrives because it's required by law. Is this true? Is there anyone in California who is trying to do the same thing?

[Stallion0511]

My CA (NJ) said the same thing to me.
I am in week 36. I can only hope to qualify. Based on this thread, we might be okay...

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by p0d5gs

I'm in Bay Area, my 23 X5 45e has 8/29 as production date so I guess it won't arrive until late Sep. I'm trying to sign a purchase agreement with my dealer but my SA told me they are not allowed to do anything binding until the car arrives because it's required by law. Is this true? Is there anyone in California who is trying to do the same thing?

It technically is illegal in California to have a binding contract prior to delivery. Look at what you have and see if you are comfortable with it. With your timeline you should have nothing to worry about anyways.

[icj_45e]

I sent the letter from BMW's CEO to my CA and asked if they'll provide a binding sales order for me. He replied "My manager says he does not know anything about this".

I am very disappointed in how BMW and my local dealer are handling this situation. They should have been proactive like Rivian and created a website immediately so everyone who has an order placed can lock in this tax credit for $100. I'm crossing my fingers I'll be ok since I have a 45e coming, but I think current order holders of vehicles assembled outside US are going to be screwed

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ian335

I sent the letter from BMW's CEO to my CA and asked if they'll provide a binding sales order for me. He replied "My manager says he does not know anything about this".

I am very disappointed in how BMW and my local dealer are handling this situation. They should have been proactive like Rivian and created a website immediately so everyone who has an order placed can lock in this tax credit for $100. I'm crossing my fingers I'll be ok since I have a 45e coming, but I think current order holders of vehicles assembled outside US are going to be screwed

Given the dealership model there really was not anything that BMW could do directly with customers since the dealers are responsible for sales. That said, the should have created a memo with some guidance for dealers rather than a later, CYA memo filled with mistakes.

[viperdoc]

I also think legally even verbal contracts and agreements are enforceable (to different extents given your state). I just read the Georgia law regarding enforceable contracts and it says even verbal ones are unless there is a dispute between the two parties. So if you have a signed purchase agreement I don’t know how that could be disputed.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by viperdoc

I also think legally even verbal contracts and agreements are enforceable (to different extents given your state). I just read the Georgia law regarding enforceable contracts and it says even verbal ones are unless there is a dispute between the two parties. So if you have a signed purchase agreement I don’t know how that could be disputed.

Yes but a purchase agreement for a vehicle can be broken by either party. We have had numerous folks with a signed purchase agreement but the dealer decided to either not sell them the vehicle or change the price and charge more. Of course all the time the opposite happens and folks don't buy the vehicle, especially when they haven't given a deposit or it was refundable.

Edit: I was just giving some general information, wasn't commenting on whether a signed purchase agreement should satisfy the requirements of the Transition rule or not.

[TurtleBoy]

Well, they issued guidance on the binding contract and it is not good. I would venture to say no one has a binding contract under the definition given it expressly says damages can't be limited to a specified amount such as a deposit unless that amount is at least 5%. Luckily in the case of the 45e everyone that has one on order should take delivery before the guidance comes out, hopefully.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-...30-and-irc-30d

[outsidepls]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Well, they issued guidance on the binding contract and it is not good. I would venture to say no one has a binding contract under the definition given it expressly says damages can't be limited to a specified amount such as a deposit unless that amount is at least 5%. Luckily in the case of the 45e everyone that has one on order should take delivery before the guidance comes out, hopefully.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-...30-and-irc-30d

Meep!
On the other hand, this part sure makes it seem like the Secretary won't be issuing proposed guidance re: batteries before the very last second, so that's good?
"Vehicles Purchased and Delivered between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022
If you purchase and take possession of a qualifying electric vehicle after August 16, 2022 and before January 1, 2023, aside from the final assembly requirement, the rules in effect before the enactment of the Inflation Reduction Act for the EV credit apply (including those involving the manufacturing caps on vehicles sold). If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying vehicle before August 16, 2022, see the rule above."

[cruiseguys]

Originally Posted by outsidepls

Meep!
On the other hand, this part sure makes it seem like the Secretary won't be issuing proposed guidance re: batteries before the very last second, so that's good?
"Vehicles Purchased and Delivered between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022
If you purchase and take possession of a qualifying electric vehicle after August 16, 2022 and before January 1, 2023, aside from the final assembly requirement, the rules in effect before the enactment of the Inflation Reduction Act for the EV credit apply (including those involving the manufacturing caps on vehicles sold). If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying vehicle before August 16, 2022, see the rule above."

Well that is great news it would seem. Income limits, price limits, etc wouldn’t apply for a vehicle purchased and delivered before Jan 1 2023, correct?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by cruiseguys

Well that is great news it would seem. Income limits, price limits, etc wouldn’t apply for a vehicle purchased and delivered before Jan 1 2023, correct?

Yes, that has been the timeline for implementation on those in the bill from the Senate.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by outsidepls

Meep!
On the other hand, this part sure makes it seem like the Secretary won't be issuing proposed guidance re: batteries before the very last second, so that's good?
"Vehicles Purchased and Delivered between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022
If you purchase and take possession of a qualifying electric vehicle after August 16, 2022 and before January 1, 2023, aside from the final assembly requirement, the rules in effect before the enactment of the Inflation Reduction Act for the EV credit apply (including those involving the manufacturing caps on vehicles sold). If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying vehicle before August 16, 2022, see the rule above."

Yes, I think that is a confirmation of what we expected and hoped for. Makes sense because doing something prior to that would be a nightmare for tax reporting.