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      07-30-2021, 10:22 AM   #67
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Meaning that I had an Audi, found it not to my liking, so why get into another if I already had one subpar experience.

Kind of like remarrying one's ex-wife.....
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      07-30-2021, 11:14 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Read the fine print under any of these charts, graphs, whatever, and see that they release themselves from any accuracy or statistical significance. This stuff is a bunch of BS. "Initial quality", what the hell is that?
One brand is in first place and a year later they are way down the list in 17th along with many other brands showing wild changes in their so called "rankings".
This stuff always reminds me of the knuckle heads who believe everything they hear on the news.
BTW. I agree. JD Power ranking are highly suspect and I won't base my decision on them. Just pointing out that I haven't seen any data from any source that lists Audi above BMW in quality. BMW SUVs especially are rated highly. Even by Consumer Reports. But I agree, that these are just data points and not totally scientific.

I believe 2021 defects went down, because the data is from 2020, where people drove a lot less. Plus, JD treats door rattle the same as something major, from what I recall. They just go by number of reported defects.
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      07-30-2021, 12:42 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
BTW. I agree. JD Power ranking are highly suspect and I won't base my decision on them. Just pointing out that I haven't seen any data from any source that lists Audi above BMW in quality. BMW SUVs especially are rated highly. Even by Consumer Reports. But I agree, that these are just data points and not totally scientific.

I believe 2021 defects went down, because the data is from 2020, where people drove a lot less. Plus, JD treats door rattle the same as something major, from what I recall. They just go by number of reported defects.
Yeah, I follow that about defects. I hope everyone's '21 X5 is as great as mine, perfect vehicle, no problems at all, absolutely love it.
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      07-30-2021, 03:17 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Read the fine print under any of these charts, graphs, whatever, and see that they release themselves from any accuracy or statistical significance. This stuff is a bunch of BS. "Initial quality", what the hell is that?
One brand is in first place and a year later they are way down the list in 17th along with many other brands showing wild changes in their so called "rankings".
This stuff always reminds me of the knuckle heads who believe everything they hear on the news.
That's true... but I guess you look for trends year over year. It's never good to look at 1 or 2 years in a vacuum - especially since it seems JD Power doesn't seem to massage their data for outliers or provide much context behind what may be driving some of the changes. Sounds like they could use some data scientists on their team....

Looking through the dependability studies (I agree I'm not sure what "initial quality" means... but at least vehicle dependability offers some merit) from 2015 to 2021, you can see a few trends:

- Land Rover consistently ranks at the bottom
- Lexus and Porsche consistently rank at or near the top
- Honda has been steadily declining in reliability, but not quite as significantly as their decline in rankings (which suggests other brands are getting more reliable while Honda is not)
- BMW has consistently been above industry average, but never near the top

Ultimately I'm just speculating - but I wish there was a way to capture more nuanced data. Things like, categorizing the types/magnitude of problems - most common issues. For example, Brand A might be more reliable than Brand B based on JD Power's qualifications of # of issues per 100 vehicles. However looking deeper into the types of problems, Brand A experiences catastrophic powertrain failure while Brand B's more frequent issues happen to be things like the sunroof rattling or not working.

I know Consumer Reports provides some of that, but there should be a way to use the types of problems being experienced to weight the rankings as opposed to a straight count of problems.
JD Power initial quality is based off the first 3 months of ownership. It is a useless metric of actual vehicle quality.
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      07-30-2021, 06:31 PM   #71
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Yeah, most complaints early on—as reported to JD Power—are technology related. If you dig deeper into that metric, you’ll see what the top complaints are for initial quality and it mainly centers around people not knowing how to turn the heat seaters on, or the fact it’s buried behind ten sub menus.
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      08-01-2021, 08:28 AM   #72
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Many "consumer report" (not the magazine) surveys are suspect. Just read some Amazon reviews:

"I can't get this #$&% thing to work! One star!"
"Did you flip the on/off switch to "on?"
"Oh, yeah, well...."
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      11-26-2021, 03:09 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
I agree with you as well. I used to have a Cayenne S before my X5 (with DHP) and I prefer the size and overall interior layout of the X5, but while the options were more expensive on the Cayenne, the quality seemed a little nicer - including the leather and such. However, to me the X5 with DHP is a little quicker and has a more comfortable ride and handling is about the same. But as you say it is subjective. Both are really good and I am sure most people will be happier with either. Also, the Cayenne seemed to be more solid in that there were zero creaks of plastic rubbing and just solid over rough roads. The build quality is second to none.

An M50i's closest Porsche Cayenne competitor is the Cayenne GTS IMHO.

I might be in the minority, but I find the new Cayenne and SQ8 interior looks very high tech and modern in a good way. Well, so does the X5. So, it's all subjective. LOL.
Had a X5 loaner when my car was in service. It was a base X5 and I was disappointed. It was comfortable and easy to drive, but way too floaty. I test drove the X5 M50i later. Much more planted (maybe because of the M suspension) and powerful (because of the mighty V8), and it was very comfortable for the family. Almost pulled trigger to place an order on M50i before accidentally test driving a Cayenne GTS. Well, I think the GTS is just in another league in terms of driving dynamics (and price as well). In comparison, the M50i is way too soft and relaxed. I eventually placed an order on GTS in May but I still don't see it arriving in the coming months with repeated delays. So coming back to BMW for in stock M50i (probably not X5M, as the ride quality is really compromised).
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      11-26-2021, 04:07 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
I agree with you as well. I used to have a Cayenne S before my X5 (with DHP) and I prefer the size and overall interior layout of the X5, but while the options were more expensive on the Cayenne, the quality seemed a little nicer - including the leather and such. However, to me the X5 with DHP is a little quicker and has a more comfortable ride and handling is about the same. But as you say it is subjective. Both are really good and I am sure most people will be happier with either. Also, the Cayenne seemed to be more solid in that there were zero creaks of plastic rubbing and just solid over rough roads. The build quality is second to none.

An M50i's closest Porsche Cayenne competitor is the Cayenne GTS IMHO.

I might be in the minority, but I find the new Cayenne and SQ8 interior looks very high tech and modern in a good way. Well, so does the X5. So, it's all subjective. LOL.
Had a X5 loaner when my car was in service. It was a base X5 and I was disappointed. It was comfortable and easy to drive, but way too floaty. I test drove the X5 M50i later. Much more planted (maybe because of the M suspension) and powerful (because of the mighty V8), and it was very comfortable for the family. Almost pulled trigger to place an order on M50i before accidentally test driving a Cayenne GTS. Well, I think the GTS is just in another league in terms of driving dynamics (and price as well). In comparison, the M50i is way too soft and relaxed. I eventually placed an order on GTS in May but I still don't see it arriving in the coming months with repeated delays. So coming back to BMW for in stock M50i (probably not X5M, as the ride quality is really compromised).
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      11-26-2021, 04:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoshu View Post
I see a lot of X5’s but hardly any X5 M50i’s or X5M’s. Subtle difference that most won’t recognize but “we” in the know would!
100% agree

I pulled up at a red light next to a davit grey M50 in my tanzanite one and we both gave each other nod of “nice ride, dude”
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      11-27-2021, 07:06 AM   #76
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That’s one complaint I have with the M50i w/air is the floaty suspension. I know it’s subjective, but I have to keep the suspension in Sports mode for it to feel “normal” to me (i.e., not floaty). I didn’t drive the 40, so I have no idea on the differences.

The SQ8’s suspension felt more compliant to me and had three modes: normal, sports and comfort. The sports is harsher than our sports while their comfort is better than ours in that it really smooths out the ride without the boat feeling.
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      11-27-2021, 11:46 AM   #77
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I looked at both before buying our M50i. Audi seats are done nicely with the stitching and interior alcantara. I did not like the fingerprint prone display units and the exterior is very boring. Only regret is the lack of larger trunk space. We’ve got two young kiddos and another on the way.
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      11-27-2021, 11:47 AM   #78
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If trunk and cargo was a concern; Why didn't you take the SQ7 into consideration over the SQ8?
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      11-27-2021, 01:41 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
If trunk and cargo was a concern; Why didn't you take the SQ7 into consideration over the SQ8?
Read the thread too quickly, thought the comparison was the SQ7 hence my regret regarding a larger trunk space (SQ7).
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