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      11-10-2021, 05:31 AM   #1
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Sending letter to BMW NA about touchscreens

Hey all,

Started this on a new thread because the other ones are getting lengthy - and this one is rather about a letter.

I’m sending the following to two BMW NA executives that I found online.

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/bmw/

If you’re also concerned, I invite you to join me in sending them something similar, with my hope that if they hear from enough customers and realize the magnitude of the issue, they could reconsider how this is being handled.

P/s: I’m still planning to take delivery myself; mainly looking to protect my legal rights so later I can make a manufacturing defect claim


Executive Contacts

Primary Contact
Richard Powers
Department Head Customer Relations and Services
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677-7731
Rich.Powers@bmwna.com

Shaun Bugbee
Executive Vice President, Operations
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677-7731
Shaun.Bugbee@bmwna.com


Hello Mr Powers and Mr Bugbee,

I hope you, your families, and staff remain healthy and well during these times. I am a 3-time BMW owner, after moving from Porsche and Audi to your superior brand.

I can only assume that at your level, you are aware that brand-new 2022 X5’s and other models were just manufactured without a touchscreen, as I have learned on the forums, and finally confirmed by your company, along with many other concerned customers.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...869843&page=24

Initially, I was thinking I would be okay without a touchscreen, but at this day and age they’re truly vital - especially to use Apple CarPlay in the way it was designed.

What’s even more concerning is the lack of communication from your company. As I placed my order through my local dealership, I get access to the status of the car via MyBMW, including the list of features.

Nowhere does it say Deletion of Touchscreen, but the forum members were able to figure out that Deletion of Backup Assist corresponded with this manufacturing defect, which can also be verified via the VIN Decoder as listed under “6UY”.

If I’m forced to sign a document from BMW when I take delivery of the vehicle, I hereby also confirm I will not waive my legal rights, and my expectation is that BMW will fix the cars and install the touchscreen once the parts are available.

On a personal note, seeing all the feedback from the dozens of forum members, may I suggest this is the only appropriate response from the company, given our expectations when purchasing an excellent brand, and at this price point.

Feel free to get in touch, if needed.

Respectfully,


VIN #
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      11-10-2021, 07:00 AM   #2
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It is good to communicate with them but just keep in mind the document you sign will likely have verbiage in there saying you agree to not make any claims regarding the touchscreen.
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      11-10-2021, 09:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
It is good to communicate with them but just keep in mind the document you sign will likely have verbiage in there saying you agree to not make any claims regarding the touchscreen.
Which is why he addressed that in his letter, did you read it? I'm going to be sending a similar message to these folks, but more focused on the poor communication (borderline bait and switch) and slap in the face "credit".

Thank you OP for the above contact info and let us all know if they respond.
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      11-10-2021, 11:28 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ThomasShelby View Post
Which is why he addressed that in his letter, did you read it? I'm going to be sending a similar message to these folks, but more focused on the poor communication (borderline bait and switch) and slap in the face "credit".

Thank you OP for the above contact info and let us all know if they respond.
LOL You may have read but not understood my reply. He can say anything he wants in his letter but that will not effect what he has to sign at delivery. At that point he has a choice to sign it or not take the vehicle.
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      11-10-2021, 11:29 AM   #5
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While I'm skeptical of a bunch of big ego BMW owners (I'll speak for myself haha) emailing exec team, I am on board with the idea of our collective power. Auto manufactures fight tooth and nail on recalls even when their are major safety issues; even fatalities involved. So a bunch folks moaning their car doesn't have a touch screen might not go far. Yet, I agree that the broad point is perhaps not the actual screen (if it NEVER had a touchscreen most of us would still be buyers) as much as our expectations not being met.

The power of the people is harnessed in our combined efforts. We should bundle into one - A mass petition would be ideal. #FreeTheScreen
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      11-10-2021, 12:43 PM   #6
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Lots of touchless BMW owner-to-be even don't know this s*t yet. (thanks to BMW's good communication)

As the car arriving to dealers, we will see.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dananelson1 View Post
While I'm skeptical of a bunch of big ego BMW owners (I'll speak for myself haha) emailing exec team, I am on board with the idea of our collective power. Auto manufactures fight tooth and nail on recalls even when their are major safety issues; even fatalities involved. So a bunch folks moaning their car doesn't have a touch screen might not go far. Yet, I agree that the broad point is perhaps not the actual screen (if it NEVER had a touchscreen most of us would still be buyers) as much as our expectations not being met.

The power of the people is harnessed in our combined efforts. We should bundle into one - A mass petition would be ideal. #FreeTheScreen
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      11-10-2021, 12:57 PM   #7
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Yep - I foresee 1000's of buyers being clueless until delivery. We'll see how this plays out. Again, harnessing the the community is the most powerful. Should we Call Johnny Cockroach
What's against the community is that fact that this is unlikely to be a recall...since the majority of recalls are "safety issues" per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I know there are examples that are not pure safety, but those are outliers.

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Lots of touchless BMW owner-to-be even don't know this s*t yet. (thanks to BMW's good communication)

As the car arriving to dealers, we will see.
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      11-10-2021, 02:18 PM   #8
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"No thanks" will be the most powerful.

They will not take any actions untill they see rows of touchless vehicles on dealers' parking lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dananelson1 View Post
Yep - I foresee 1000's of buyers being clueless until delivery. We'll see how this plays out. Again, harnessing the the community is the most powerful. Should we Call Johnny Cockroach
What's against the community is that fact that this is unlikely to be a recall...since the majority of recalls are "safety issues" per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I know there are examples that are not pure safety, but those are outliers.
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      11-10-2021, 02:28 PM   #9
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Yes, I agree. And, currently there's a line of people happy to buy, so it's highly unlikely. I mean you can go buy a 2 year old 40i for basically the same cost as a new 40i or 45e, consumers can and will decide. Heck, there's a 6 month que of buyers will cash pouring from their hands to get a Model Y which has a glass roof that might fly off...haha.

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"No thanks" will be the most powerful.

They will not take any actions untill they see rows of touchless vehicles on dealers' parking lot.
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      11-10-2021, 03:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dananelson1 View Post
While I'm skeptical of a bunch of big ego BMW owners (I'll speak for myself haha) emailing exec team, I am on board with the idea of our collective power.
Yup, that's what class action lawsuits are all about. If BMW wasn't worried about being sued, then why make us sign what is likely a waiver?

I'm not that fussed to go through the trouble of doing it myself, but I do think a $500 credit is weak sauce. I think it's a bit insulting, especially w/o compensating me for the Backup assistant.
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      11-10-2021, 04:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 3Wagon View Post
Yup, that's what class action lawsuits are all about. If BMW wasn't worried about being sued, then why make us sign what is likely a waiver?

I'm not that fussed to go through the trouble of doing it myself, but I do think a $500 credit is weak sauce. I think it's a bit insulting, especially w/o compensating me for the Backup assistant.
Yeah, I don't think those waivers will be worth much if a decent law firm decides to do a class action, especially given the current market conditions ...

I was in a class-action for Audi (so dananelson1 you're not wrong about collective power), had signed the waiver, but still got a 4 figure check ... which I can't discuss

... So the problem for BMW in a class action is the same problem Audi had in that case:

(1.) Bad BAD PR especially given this has already hit the web - my Audi thing didn't have that,

(2.) They have to pay attorneys because the odds of using inside staff is about zero ... and it'll be a negotiated settlement because public discovery would be horrendous PR.

(3.) *WHEN* BMW settles they'll have to "pay" the CA attorneys which will get baked into the settlement somehow

(4.) BMW will have to up the remedy for buyers because otherwise why negotiate

(5.) The technology & touchscreen-delete company isn't a great brand move in an EV world.

I'd be surprised if law firms, post The Verge article, weren't already running a case assessment on this.
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      11-10-2021, 05:25 PM   #12
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Touchless Screen X5's just went up in value and demand is suddenly sky high for these rare editions. . .
"I have the rare touchless edition, yes created out of covid supply chain constraints, but created for the true driver . . . the ultimate driver".
If they would have given us EU range from battery in exchange or extra HP, They could have upcharged the touchless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Yeah, I don't think those waivers won't be worth much if a decent law firm decides to do a class action, especially given the current market conditions ...

I was in a class-action for Audi (so dananelson1 you're not wrong about collective power), had signed the waiver, but still got a 4 figure check ... which I can't discuss

... So the problem for BMW in a class action is the same problem Audi had in that case:

(1.) Bad BAD PR especially given this has already hit the web - my Audi thing didn't have that,

(2.) They have pay attorneys because the odds of using inside staff is about zero ... and it'll be a negotiated settlement because public discovery would be horrendous PR.

(3.) *WHEN* BMW settles they'll have to "pay" the CA attorneys which will get baked into the settlement somehow

(4.) BMW will have to up the remedy for buyers because otherwise why do negotiate

(5.) The technology & touchscreen-delete company isn't a great brand move in an EV world.

I'd be surprised if law firms, post The Verge article, weren't already running a case assessment on this.

Last edited by dananelson1; 11-10-2021 at 05:37 PM..
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      11-10-2021, 06:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dananelson1 View Post

Touchless Screen X5's ... created for the true driver . . . the ultimate driver".
genius. literally ...

Well, as I've been saying, according to the always accurate yunguldyn, BMW is working on a "genius option" for 2023 models that shuts off the touchscreen functions ... I've been told this is for both driver focus and to prevent passengers from messing with things (i.e., kids, valets, etc)
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      11-10-2021, 06:11 PM   #14
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It is good to communicate with them but just keep in mind the document you sign will likely have verbiage in there saying you agree to not make any claims regarding the touchscreen.
Yup. I’m sure they have their lawyers verifying all of that
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      11-10-2021, 06:34 PM   #15
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Yup, that's what class action lawsuits are all about. If BMW wasn't worried about being sued, then why make us sign what is likely a waiver?.
A class action, or any other, suit would not be applicable. There is no loss as you weren't forced to buy the vehicle and know beforehand that it will not have a touchscreen. We should see the actual document tomorrow or Friday but the purpose of signing it is acknowledging there is no touchscreen and no plans to retrofit it in the future.
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      11-10-2021, 06:54 PM   #16
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LOL You may have read but not understood my reply. He can say anything he wants in his letter but that will not effect what he has to sign at delivery. At that point he has a choice to sign it or not take the vehicle.
I hear you. My letter would probably be considered a “side letter” - I’m not a lawyer but I have a sense of how these things work - I’m literally going to try to write-in some sentence on the document they make me sign.

I’ve done this before at doctor’s offices, when not agreeing to the full terms.

I know it’s a long shot, so I’m just looking for the possibility of an “out” later - or at least to not be written off from a class-action…
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      11-10-2021, 06:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by hulu View Post
"No thanks" will be the most powerful.

They will not take any actions untill they see rows of touchless vehicles on dealers' parking lot.
I agree that would be the power move - but I also know there are people lined up to buy my car if I don’t take it - and I’m willing to live with it as-is; just want to get this point across to BMW, and have a chance to have them fix it later.

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      11-10-2021, 09:55 PM   #18
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I just saw my vehicle for the first time in person today. I have the window sticker, and it does say “Deletion of Touchscreen,” for what it’s worth

There’s no legal recourse here. BMW isn’t doing a bait-and-switch. You might have ordered your car thinking it would have a touchscreen, but…it doesn’t. But you’ll know that before you go ahead with purchasing it.

The only legal recourse I could see you *potentially* having over the dealer (not BMW corporate) is if you cancel your order over this and the dealer tries to make you forfeit your deposit.

That said, the collective power of a dissatisfied customer base could compel BMW to handle this differently—upping the compensation, most likely—but I doubt any class-action lawsuit would go anywhere.
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      11-10-2021, 10:12 PM   #19
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Thanks, that's very useful. I will send email too. I am not so happy for being first time BWM owner!
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      11-10-2021, 11:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
A class action, or any other, suit would not be applicable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kplatinum777 View Post

The only legal recourse I could see ...

That said, the collective power of a dissatisfied customer base could compel BMW to handle this differently—upping the compensation, most likely—but I doubt any class-action lawsuit would go anywhere.
Broadly, BMWNA has put out specifications to potential customers (which are still on the BMWUSA website!) and then taken a deposit via BMWNA's contracted dealer partners to deliver the vehicles it's advertising ... thus one area of attack would be good ole promissory estoppel.

That is, based on BMW's promise to deliver the product it advertised, the customer reasonably relied upon that promise and took other actions (sold a car, made garage space, made trip plans, or, in this market, simply stopped shopping for a new vehicle!), but now BMW is not making good on their promise, thus damages have been incurred. In this case, given this market, it's reasonable for any customer to claim they've incurred harm simply by stopping shopping for a car, because now, the vehicles that would've been available to them, no longer are and/or for the price & timing they would've been.

Another would be federal & state consumer protection statutory law, especially given BMW advertises "Live Cockpit Professional features a 12.3" digital instrument cluster and 12.3" touchscreen central information display." as a standard feature; i.e., potentially deceptive advertising. That is, a company probably can't advertise, say, an "internet ready phone" and then note on the label "phone cannot connect to the internet".

But maybe the best argument is your last one: should a law firm be able to assemble a decent number of angry owners, that would be enough to negotiate a better settlement than $500.
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      11-11-2021, 04:46 AM   #21
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Am I the only one who hardly ever uses their touchscreen ? I mean maybe a couple times a month to get rid of a text notification or something but the way some of you guys are going on you'd think it was the only way to control the infotainment system
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      11-11-2021, 12:36 PM   #22
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100% this.

Yes, BMW can and will make everyone sign a waiver, which makes it look like consensual but actually it's not.

1. Individual buyer does not have the power as BMW does. They have no say to the $500 or any words on the paper. The waiver is a unfair contract.
2. Yes buyer can take deposit back but it doesnot mean we loose nothing. We paid lots of "sunk cost": Returning leased/Trading in old car; Stopping shopping for other brands; Months of waiting.
3. Someone may say take it or leave it. Ok, let's go from here. If they can just remove a basic feature(which they are still advertising on their web), technically they can unilaterally change the price as they want.


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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Broadly, BMWNA has put out specifications to potential customers (which are still on the BMWUSA website!) and then taken a deposit via its dealer partners to deliver the vehicles it's advertising ... thus one area of attack would be good ole promissory estoppel.

That is, based on BMW's promise to deliver the product it advertised, the customer reasonably relied upon that promise and took other actions (sold a car, made garage space, made trip plans, or, in this market, simply stopped shopping for a new vehicle!), but now BMW is not making good on their promise, thus damages have been incurred. In this case, given this market, it's reasonable for any customer to claim they've incurred harm simply by stopping shopping for a car, but now the vehicles that would've been available to them no longer are and/or for the price & timing they would've been.

Another would be federal & state consumer protection statutory law, especially given BMW advertises "Live Cockpit Professional features a 12.3" digital instrument cluster and 12.3" touchscreen central information display." as a standard feature; i.e., potentially deceptive advertising. That is, a company probably can't advertise, say, an "internet ready phone" and then note on the label "phone cannot connect to the internet".

But maybe the best argument is your last one: should a law firm be able to assemble a decent number of angry owners, that would be enough to negotiate a better settlement than $500.
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