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      11-11-2021, 01:46 PM   #23
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Angry

Here is the quote from BMW CEO recently.

“Where we differ is our standard on quality and reliability,” Zipse said Wednesday at a Handelsblatt conference. “We have different aspirations on customer satisfaction.”

Did this dude actually say that? This makes me even more angrier.
I think we need to send email to this dude too.

source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ime-on-quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by hulu View Post
100% this.

Yes, BMW can and will make everyone sign a waiver, which makes it look like consensual but actually it's not.

1. Individual buyer does not have the power as BMW does. They have no say to the $500 or any words on the paper. The waiver is a unfair contract.
2. Yes buyer can take deposit back but it doesnot mean we loose nothing. We paid lots of "sunk cost": Returning leased/Trading in old car; Stopping shopping for other brands; Months of waiting.
3. Someone may say take it or leave it. Ok, let's go from here. If they can just remove a basic feature(which they are still advertising on their web), technically they can unilaterally change the price as they want.
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      11-11-2021, 03:33 PM   #24
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Sadly these days they(BMW or Tesla) can just do business like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lmj8088 View Post
Here is the quote from BMW CEO recently.

“Where we differ is our standard on quality and reliability,” Zipse said Wednesday at a Handelsblatt conference. “We have different aspirations on customer satisfaction.”

Did this dude actually say that? This makes me even more angrier.
I think we need to send email to this dude too.

source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ime-on-quality
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      11-11-2021, 04:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hulu View Post
100% this.

Yes, BMW can and will make everyone sign a waiver, which makes it look like consensual but actually it's not.

1. Individual buyer does not have the power as BMW does. They have no say to the $500 or any words on the paper. The waiver is a unfair contract.
2. Yes buyer can take deposit back but it doesnot mean we loose nothing. We paid lots of "sunk cost": Returning leased/Trading in old car; Stopping shopping for other brands; Months of waiting.
3. Someone may say take it or leave it. Ok, let's go from here. If they can just remove a basic feature(which they are still advertising on their web), technically they can unilaterally change the price as they want.
I know I said in another thread I would just let people vent no matter what they say but keep in mind that the buyer and BMW have no relationship until the vehicle is purchased. Prior to that you are a client of the dealer and may be able to go after them. As far as price, the dealer can change that right up until the time you take delivery. As we have seen happen to some of our members, they could also refuse to sell you a vehicle you ordered because they decided to sell it to someone else. Terrible business model but it happens.
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      11-11-2021, 04:31 PM   #26
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FYI - dealer telling me the “fix” (software update) not ready yet.
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      11-11-2021, 04:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post

the buyer and BMW have no relationship until the vehicle is purchased.
This is obviously completely untrue:

(1.) Consumer products manufacturers are always responsible via federal & state statute laws for the integrity of their products. If Tyson ships bad chicken to a distributor customer, who then sells the chicken to a grocery store, who then sells it to you ... and you get sick, Tyson is liable to issue recalls, etc.

(2.) BMWNA directly communicates product features with the customer via it's web properties, promotions, UDE events, & sales collateral. All of these things could be viewed as a product promise by BMWNA.

(3.) BMWNA provides direct customer production communications - including added options! - via mygarage.bmwusa.com, as well as the 1844 genius BMWNA phone line
where customers can speak directly to a BMWNA representative about their specific car, its production status, and it's features.

(4.) BMWNA even maintains a "Performance Center Delivery" program where customers can take delivery of their specific vehicle at BMW Manufacturing's factory in Spartanburg where no dealer is present, and where BMWNA may be currently delivering no-touchscreen vehicles to customers who have no idea about that until they're already paid to travel to SC!


BMWNA's direct customer relationship is plainly obvious.
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He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.

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      11-11-2021, 05:43 PM   #28
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I would be interested if anyone is able to negotiate further then the $500. I saw that someone else in here already got a response that it won’t be retro actively available. My dealer also said the software wasn’t available today as they were expecting. Its probably not any easy fix. Software usually takes months to test and debug. And not just the BMW side, but also the third party apps like CarPlay. Like there might be a feature in the program where to access it only via touch screen. I bet there is even a first time PDI calibration for the screen that makes the technician touch parts of the screen. Depending on how much notice this decision was given, it’s it’s only a couple weeks old, seems unreasonable for them to have a software fix this soon.
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      11-12-2021, 06:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternLI View Post
Am I the only one who hardly ever uses their touchscreen ? I mean maybe a couple times a month to get rid of a text notification or something but the way some of you guys are going on you'd think it was the only way to control the infotainment system
I hear you - I drove my old 328d wagon for 2 year before I even realized it was a touchscreen, LOL!

But for me it’s just getting $500 discount for something that I would have to pay $3K+ to retro-fit.

That, plus the weak communication from BMWNA; the portal never said anything about touchsreen, and I had to find out from a non-affiliated forum.
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      11-14-2021, 09:43 AM   #30
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Seems like this whole discussion is centered around it being BMW's choice to delete the touchscreen option. As if it's their preference to remove a feature, develop new software on the fly, issue a stop sale, develop a form and procedure for customer acknowledgment, install said software at the dealer, etc. While I understand it's frustrating for those with current orders, I don't think BMW would take these costly steps if they had another option. I say that observing BMW Group navigating these supply chain issues far better than other manufacturers.
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      11-14-2021, 10:05 AM   #31
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All due respect to the OP, but if not having a touchscreen is so appalling that he felt the need to go this route, I would say you have a choice, and the choice is to purchase a car from a different brand. I don't think the lack of touch screen warrants the time and energy to write formal letters expressing dissatisfaction. For those of us lucky to be able to afford and enjoy 70-80-90k cars, this really isn't an issue. This is all just my opinion of course, and good luck to the OP for a satisfactory remedy to his problem.
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      11-14-2021, 01:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminor513 View Post
All due respect to the OP, but if not having a touchscreen is so appalling
My 2 cents is the OP's issue is NOT:

* Is there a touchscreen or not?
* Is BMW Manufacturing having supply chain problems or not?


Rather the issue is:

* Has BMW proactively, accurately, & transparently communicated with customers on its supply chain issues?

* Is BMW's proposed remedy for supply-chain induced decontenting fair?

* Are BMW's contracted agents knowledgeable, proactive, & service-oriented when guiding customers through these supply chain challenges?

The answer to all 3 is "no", which is the OP's concern & reason for the letter.

Lastly, the (not your) notion of "zomg BMW has no relationship with customers you guys, it's only the dealers" is ultra-laughable given we all go to BMWNA web properties to track our vehicles (mygarage), we call a BMWNA 1844 number to speak with BMWNA reps about our specific vehicles, we attend BMWNA events where BMWNA reps tell us about vehicle model features, and we do PCD at the BMW Manufacturing factory where BMWNA reps hand us our specific vehicle. Further, dealers are BMWNA's *contracted* agents, and in that contract BMWNA specifically requires dealers to have "the best customer service in the industry".

The more accurate statement would be "BMWNA is not the cashier", if we feel the need to differentiate between BMWNA & their contracted dealer agents. (<- meaning BMWNA wrote the contract language, dealers signed it.)

It is obviously well with BMWNA's control to design & coordinate customer communication, ensuring transparency, consistency, & proactive outreach, on this issue or any other ... BMWNA CHOOSES not to.

Thus the OP's issue.
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He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.

Last edited by GrussGott; 11-19-2021 at 02:49 PM..
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      11-14-2021, 03:58 PM   #33
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We can disagree on what kind of reaction is warranted. If BMW had released this car in 2019 w/o a touchscreen, they’d have been excoriated by the press and car enthusiasts everywhere as releasing a WTF outdated car.

It’s not unreasonable for people to be upset, even if we have little or no recourse. It’s 1 thing for this to have been always sold and advertised this way from the start. That way, when I purchased, I could have made a choice to buy this or not. This was a change *post sale*.

My m50i was already missing over a dozen features from proper 2020 models. I was ok with ALL of those that were missing when I ordered. I *really* want air suspension, night vision, adaptive mode, B&W, etc, but I knew they weren’t available. I could make an informed choice, much like any option I deem unnecessary.

But, I spent hours obsessing over models and options. I made my choice. Then, key features were removed. I would have still bought the x5, but the fact remains that the deal was altered AFTER I had agreed to it. The touchscreen and Backup assistant removal were after the fact; I think anyone who is annoyed and upset is justified.
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      11-15-2021, 12:16 PM   #34
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Well, recently Tesla has some Model Y deliverd without type-C usb port. But guess what? Tesla will retrofit it later

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmj8088 View Post
Here is the quote from BMW CEO recently.

“Where we differ is our standard on quality and reliability,” Zipse said Wednesday at a Handelsblatt conference. “We have different aspirations on customer satisfaction.”

Did this dude actually say that? This makes me even more angrier.
I think we need to send email to this dude too.

source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ime-on-quality
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      11-18-2021, 02:18 PM   #35
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Hi juancasala

Have you heard back from BMW?

Knowing the touchscreen is just a short time(two weeks) issue has finnaly pissed me off.

I'm writing a letter to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juancasala View Post
Hey all,

Started this on a new thread because the other ones are getting lengthy - and this one is rather about a letter.

I’m sending the following to two BMW NA executives that I found online.

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/bmw/

If you’re also concerned, I invite you to join me in sending them something similar, with my hope that if they hear from enough customers and realize the magnitude of the issue, they could reconsider how this is being handled.

P/s: I’m still planning to take delivery myself; mainly looking to protect my legal rights so later I can make a manufacturing defect claim


Executive Contacts

Primary Contact
Richard Powers
Department Head Customer Relations and Services
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677-7731
Rich.Powers@bmwna.com

Shaun Bugbee
Executive Vice President, Operations
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677-7731
Shaun.Bugbee@bmwna.com


Hello Mr Powers and Mr Bugbee,

I hope you, your families, and staff remain healthy and well during these times. I am a 3-time BMW owner, after moving from Porsche and Audi to your superior brand.

I can only assume that at your level, you are aware that brand-new 2022 X5’s and other models were just manufactured without a touchscreen, as I have learned on the forums, and finally confirmed by your company, along with many other concerned customers.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...869843&page=24

Initially, I was thinking I would be okay without a touchscreen, but at this day and age they’re truly vital - especially to use Apple CarPlay in the way it was designed.

What’s even more concerning is the lack of communication from your company. As I placed my order through my local dealership, I get access to the status of the car via MyBMW, including the list of features.

Nowhere does it say Deletion of Touchscreen, but the forum members were able to figure out that Deletion of Backup Assist corresponded with this manufacturing defect, which can also be verified via the VIN Decoder as listed under “6UY”.

If I’m forced to sign a document from BMW when I take delivery of the vehicle, I hereby also confirm I will not waive my legal rights, and my expectation is that BMW will fix the cars and install the touchscreen once the parts are available.

On a personal note, seeing all the feedback from the dozens of forum members, may I suggest this is the only appropriate response from the company, given our expectations when purchasing an excellent brand, and at this price point.

Feel free to get in touch, if needed.

Respectfully,


VIN #
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      11-18-2021, 02:59 PM   #36
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OK this is what I got:


Hi ***:

Thanks for contacting the BMW Genius Team.
We are currently experiencing some temporary restrictions on the availability of some select optional equipment. While every effort is being made to fulfill customer orders as requested, some vehicle orders may be adjusted to include similar replacement options.

We encourage you to contact your local dealer to discuss individual situations as needed. Should you need to access a list of our authorized BMW centers, please visit our website at: www.bmwusa.com, and select “Dealer Locator.” We apologize for any inconvenience.

I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again for your inquiry.

For your convenience, BMW Genius Team members can also be reached via the BMW Genius Hotline Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Friday 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., and Saturday from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time at 1-844-4GENIUS (443-6487).

Bernadette
BMW Genius Representative

Make a BMW product expert your new co-pilot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hulu View Post
Hi juancasala

Have you heard back from BMW?

Knowing the touchscreen is just a short time(two weeks) issue has finnaly pissed me off.

I'm writing a letter to them.
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      11-18-2021, 03:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hulu View Post
OK this is what I got:


Hi ***:

Thanks for contacting the BMW Genius Team.
We are currently experiencing some temporary restrictions on the availability of some select optional equipment. While every effort is being made to fulfill customer orders as requested, some vehicle orders may be adjusted to include similar replacement options.

We encourage you to contact your local dealer to discuss individual situations as needed. Should you need to access a list of our authorized BMW centers, please visit our website at: www.bmwusa.com, and select “Dealer Locator.” We apologize for any inconvenience.

I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again for your inquiry.

For your convenience, BMW Genius Team members can also be reached via the BMW Genius Hotline Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Friday 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., and Saturday from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time at 1-844-4GENIUS (443-6487).

Bernadette
BMW Genius Representative

Make a BMW product expert your new co-pilot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hulu View Post
Hi juancasala

Have you heard back from BMW?

Knowing the touchscreen is just a short time(two weeks) issue has finnaly pissed me off.

I'm writing a letter to them.
So they are politely saying piss-off? I've found customer service to be very hit or miss these days. I doubt BMW will do anything to make things right, apart from the $500 credit. But I'm a pessimist these days with all the negative customer service experiences I've been having. But who knows, maybe things will change for the better soon…
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      11-18-2021, 04:15 PM   #38
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I'm furious and definitely going to wrote to BMW CEO, and to anyone who may have a say on the touch screen issue, asking for a retrofit at a minimum. Parts shortage happen, but treating customer orders differently is not tolerable. They need to clearly explain who got the touchscreen and based on what criteria in those two narrow week windows.
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      11-18-2021, 04:23 PM   #39
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I did, ceo and several vps but havent heard back from them yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LU View Post
I'm furious and definitely going to wrote to BMW CEO, and to anyone who may have a say on the touch screen issue, asking for a retrofit at a minimum. Parts shortage happen, but treating customer orders differently is not tolerable. They need to clearly explain who got the touchscreen and based on what criteria in those two narrow week windows.
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      11-18-2021, 04:47 PM   #40
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I understand that everyone is upset b/c BMW substituted non-touchscreens for a period of time and though it may appear to be over, I'm not sure that it is.

For argument's sake, let's call it a week and that there isn't any future constraints. What are your proposed alternative(s)?

1. Shutdown the plant for 1 week until touch screen become available?
2. Retrofit?
3. ?

Let's pretend this graphic is current and up to date. This means that

1. Spartanburg, would layoff 11,000 employees for 1 week and 7,500 vehicles would not be produced and all customer would have their deliveries pushed back by 1 week forever. This is then multiplied by all the other affected models and plants. Probably a big number.

2. If they only produce 1,500 vehicles / day for 5 days that's 7,500 vehicles * the number of affected models and plants. Perhaps a manageable number of vehicles? BMW should probably then ship and hold all vehicles at the VPCs around the world provided there is space, if not rent additional space and retrofit screens when they become available. Probably also a big number with similar delays.

Are these the options you would present to your management?
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      11-18-2021, 05:04 PM   #41
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I haven't thought that far yet.

What I'm trying to do now is:
1. Inform as many affected customer as possible (since BMW will not do that), e.g. forums, fb, twt and everywhere.
2. So customer can make informative decisions;
3. Do what we can do to press bmw/dealers to reveal the truth to potential touchless car buyes - that future cars will have the touchscreen.
4. For those who has already accept their vehicles without knowing the touchscreen is back - offer them options



Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
I understand that everyone is upset b/c BMW substituted non-touchscreens for a period of time and though it may appear to be over, I'm not sure that it is.

For argument's sake, let's call it a week and that there isn't any future constraints. What are your proposed alternative(s)?

1. Shutdown the plant for 1 week until touch screen become available?
2. Retrofit?
3. ?

Let's pretend this graphic is current and up to date. This means that

1. Spartanburg, would layoff 11,000 employees for 1 week and 7,500 vehicles would not be produced and all customer would have their deliveries pushed back by 1 week forever. This is then multiplied by all the other affected models and plants. Probably a big number.

2. If they only produce 1,500 vehicles / day for 5 days that's 7,500 vehicles * the number of affected models and plants. Perhaps a manageable number of vehicles? BMW should probably then ship and hold all vehicles at the VPCs around the world provided there is space, if not rent additional space and retrofit screens when they become available. Probably also a big number with similar delays.

Are these the options you would present to your management?
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      11-18-2021, 05:12 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
I understand that everyone is upset b/c BMW substituted non-touchscreens for a period of time and though it may appear to be over, I'm not sure that it is.

For argument's sake, let's call it a week and that there isn't any future constraints. What are your proposed alternative(s)?

1. Shutdown the plant for 1 week until touch screen become available?
2. Retrofit?
3. ?

Let's pretend this graphic is current and up to date. This means that

1. Spartanburg, would layoff 11,000 employees for 1 week and 7,500 vehicles would not be produced and all customer would have their deliveries pushed back by 1 week forever. This is then multiplied by all the other affected models and plants. Probably a big number.

2. If they only produce 1,500 vehicles / day for 5 days that's 7,500 vehicles * the number of affected models and plants. Perhaps a manageable number of vehicles? BMW should probably then ship and hold all vehicles at the VPCs around the world provided there is space, if not rent additional space and retrofit screens when they become available. Probably also a big number with similar delays.

Are these the options you would present to your management?
What about a option of: produce the car, ship it to dealer, sell the car with a promise of future fix (new screen and updating of coding to remove the deletion of touchscreen code)? Oh, and get rid of the $500 credit; the promise of a fix would go a long way for people. That seems like it would be a win for all parities. Might cost BMW a bit more since they are parting out and replacing touchless screens, but it's better than just throwing them in the trash. Hell, some people might not even care and just take the $500 credit and call it a day and forgo any future fix/recall in that scenario (ultimately give the impacted customers a choice: take the $500 and keep quiet or wait until we have a recall and the dealer service will give you a new screen).
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      11-18-2021, 05:14 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_McTowelie View Post
What about a option of: produce the car, ship it to dealer, sell the car with a promise of future fix (new screen and updating of coding to remove the deletion of touchscreen code)? Oh, and keep the $500 credit; the promise of a fix would go a long way for people. That seems like it would be a win for all parities. Might cost BMW a bit more since they are parting out and replacing touchless screens, but it's better than just throwing them in the trash. Hell, some people might not even care and just take the $500 credit and call it a day and forgo any future fix/recall in that scenario (ultimately give the impacted customers a choice: take the $500 and keep quiet or wait until we have a recall and the dealer service will give you a new screen).
You want your cake and eat it too. There was a stop sale for a reason, assuming it was related to safety. So minimum you'd have to wait for the software fix before getting the car.

Dealers retrofitting would be more expensive and less controlled/standardized than using the VPC.

Didn't Ford do something similar where they kept producing F150s and parking them for months?
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      11-18-2021, 05:16 PM   #44
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Edited post. I meant to say stop doing the $500 credit and give people the choice. Either take the money or wait on a future fix.

But at the end of the day people will buy the car either way. It's just the craziness of such a short lived blip. Heck, if I wasn't on forums and just heard the dealer tell me the story of what's happening I'd prb think is the new normal for screens. Sometimes too much information is a bad thing (for my sanity 🙄&#128556
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