[Flying Ace]

Yep, here's the breakeven math between gas and electric costs in CA. Just took delivery of my 45e and couldn't have come any sooner as it's $5 in metro CA

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1866591

TLDR: charging off peak is the equivalent of $2.25/gallon gas for a 20 MPG equivalent SUV

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by FCX5

100%. All technologies have pros and cons and the market/consumers should decide what is best for them.

Not to overstate it but ... this is one of those trite homespun cliches that's completely bogus. The reason is because of externalities and market failure:

Who built the freeways? Who defends shipping? Who negotiates trade agreements? Who fights wars to protect natural resources? Why have eminent domain? Who build airports? Who controls air traffic? Who controls space & satellites? Who makes sure your chicken isn't tainted? Who regulates medical devides? etc etc etc

Unless you want a 3rd World mess of infrastructure, "consumers picking what's best for them" is fail from the get-go. Freeways systems, energy systems, communications, shipping, trade, cities, etc all require central planning to be effective, cheap, and available.

"government is bad" is a failed idea by people too fearful to work together to do great things ... Somehow it's gotten popular for capitalists forget about the "well regulated markets" part which is the whole key to capitalism.

Capitalism Best Practice
(1.) Government sets the rules & regulates the market & infrastructure
(2.) Companies compete for customers
(3.) Consumers pick the market winners

Ya gotta do all three - skipping step #1 courts disaster.

As a country (and as men) we need to stop picking heroes, take a deep breath, and do the hard work of getting everyone together & self-governing. We need to stop being whiners: "if only if wasn't for THOSE people then we could have nice things" cause that's just lazy.

US citizens must realize: either we step up and own the EV market with our companies & our technology or the Chinese will.

It's just that easy.

If we don't have the balls to self-govern and win, then we lose.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by Jeff661

I’ve bought gas twice this year.

Although you are killing "fun" factor on your X5 driving it exclusively on electric. Hybrid eco pro is boring and slow, regular hybrid is okay but still no fun at all. It is kind of like buying Lamborghini and driving it only below 30mph.

[jad03060]

TO me, the point is, driving in town is not fun, and when I can do that in EV mode and help keep the air cleaner, keep the noise pollution down too, save money, and avoid gas stations, not being 'fun' in that situation is a fair compromise. But, I can also put it in sport mode when the conditions suggest it, and it still feels more planted than the 40i because the center of gravity is lower. The right tool for the job, IMHO.

[allinon72]

It also depends on what you plan on using the vehicle for. When I want to have fun I drive my X3M. When I'm in the X5 I want to relax and be comfortable. Those who buy the X5 as their only "fun capable" vehicle will likely gravitate toward the m50i or X5M anyway. All that to say, it makes sense to have a 45e and another "fun" car in the garage. Most people in the market for an x5 have the income level to support that idea.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Not to overstate it but ... this is one of those trite homespun cliches that's completely bogus. The reason is because of externalities and market failure:

Who built the freeways? Who defends shipping? Who negotiates trade agreements? Who fights wars to protect natural resources? Why have eminent domain? Who build airports? Who controls air traffic? Who controls space & satellites? Who makes sure your chicken isn't tainted? Who regulates medical devides? etc etc etc

Unless you want a 3rd World mess of infrastructure, "consumers picking what's best for them" is fail from the get-go. Freeways systems, energy systems, communications, shipping, trade, cities, etc all require central planning to be effective, cheap, and available.

"government is bad" is a failed idea by people too fearful to work together to do great things ... Somehow it's gotten popular for capitalists forget about the "well regulated markets" part which is the whole key to capitalism.

Capitalism Best Practice
(1.) Government sets the rules & regulates the market & infrastructure
(2.) Companies compete for customers
(3.) Consumers pick the market winners

Ya gotta do all three - skipping step #1 courts disaster.

As a country (and as men) we need to stop picking heroes, take a deep breath, and do the hard work of getting everyone together & self-governing. We need to stop being whiners: "if only if wasn't for THOSE people then we could have nice things" cause that's just lazy.

US citizens must realize: either we step up and own the EV market with our companies & our technology or the Chinese will.

It's just that easy.

If we don't have the balls to self-govern and win, then we lose.

Yessiree Bob! Government always knows best and can be counted on to show us sheep the way. Govenment knows just how to compete with China and many Asian countries by turning off oil pipelines along with closing coal and gas fired power plants while these countries who are eating our lunch can't build them fast enough. We will compete with wind mills and solar panels. Of couse we will. This is the type of nonsense that is being forced on the American people by life long legislators who know little more than how to be re-elected and have never had a non political job. This is a recipie for disaster that is currently unfolding in front of us now.
Should the US government be paying us $12,500 to buy an EV? I'll purchase one when I choose to which may be next year or never. I do not need government to force me in either direction which they are doing with skyrocketing petroleum derivative prices.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

I read a report that looks at gas prices to EV adoption and it’s interesting.

https://insideevs.com/news/508327/ri...s-ev-adoption/

In the report it stated that $4 per gallon represents a significant threshold, where more than a quarter of the respondents would consider an EV. $5 represented a huge jump in that value, with more than 50% consideration.

Here, gas price is over $8.5 per gallon. People still drive ICE cars - because EV's are way too expensive (and some people think EV's are no good, especially in winter).

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by dynamic

[...]Should the US government be paying us $12,500 to buy an EV? I'll purchase one when I choose to which may be next year or never. I do not need government to force me in either direction which they are doing with skyrocketing petroleum derivative prices.

this is where your mentality is twisted. the government isn't forcing you to buy an EV. they're incentivizing you. there's a difference. if you end up liking it, who wins? YOU! if you end up not liking it, who wins? YOU!

for someone who's anti-government and wants to go back to the 'way of the old west' before there was government, i'm surprised you don't take advantage and ride the metal horse into the sunset. shouldn't that be your mentality?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by dynamic

Yessiree Bob! Government always knows best and can be counted on to show us sheep the way. Govenment knows just how to compete with China and many Asian countries by turning off oil pipelines along with closing coal and gas fired power plants while these countries who are eating our lunch can't build them fast enough. We will compete with wind mills and solar panels. Of couse we will. This is the type of nonsense that is being forced on the American people by life long legislators who know little more than how to be re-elected and have never had a non political job. This is a recipie for disaster that is currently unfolding in front of us now.
Should the US government be paying us $12,500 to buy an EV? I'll purchase one when I choose to which may be next year or never. I do not need government to force me in either direction which they are doing with skyrocketing petroleum derivative prices.

US energy production is at record levels. Oil prices are where they are because of OPEC + Russia cooperating on production. The rest of the world, including US oil producers just go along. US is exporting oil…shutting down the keystone pipeline helps US shale producers etc etc. winners and losers…the Shale producers don't mind the pipeline being shut, they mind wind farms and probably coal too.

I agree with you in that the govt should not be giving $12.5 for buying an EV. But they should also not allow for large trucks of $60K de facto used for personal use, with a $200 business registration to be tax deducted either…but since they are there, I will 100% take advantage of them.

People who benefit from the later tend to oppose the former. In the end, everyone wants freebies from the govt.

The whole system now is how to get freebies and to drive rules that benefit one group. This is whether you are in the left or right. Trump 100% did not reduce the deficit or spending compared to Obama and Biden is going to 100% spend more than Trump and so and so forth…in the end, it's what you want to spend on.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

this is where your mentality is twisted. the government isn't forcing you to buy an EV. they're incentivizing you. there's a difference. if you end up liking it, who wins? YOU! if you end up not liking it, who wins? YOU!

for someone who's anti-government and wants to go back to the 'way of the old west' before there was government, i'm surprised you don't take advantage and ride the metal horse into the sunset. shouldn't that be your mentality?

I'm flaterred that you seem to take such an interest in me. Unfortunately the scores of assumptions you make are quite incorrect and foolish but most entertaining.
Obviously anyone who does not tow the Liberal line causes you distress. Looks like that is your "mentality".

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by dynamic

I'm flaterred that you seem to take such an interest in me. Unfortunately the scores of assumptions you make are quite incorrect and foolish but most entertaining. Obviously anyone who does not tow the Liberal line causes you distress. Looks like that is your "mentality".

1) don't flatter yourself.

2) my assumptions weren't assumptions, but facts. per your post, you clearly despise this administration.

3) i'm not a Liberal. i've never been dedicated to one party. during my Naval officer career, i voted Republican. i voted for Trump, in fact. (surprised, eh?) this time i voted Biden. it's called having an open mind. try having one sometime. i'm not blind to "party over people". i listen to their tickets and vote for who will serve me best. BTW, my last post was non-political, so i don't even know why you went there. it was mainly to open your mind that getting a PHEV could be a 'FOOK YOU'-type decision to the government u so clearly despise: "ok, give me your gov't money. i'll try it out, but i don't have to like or agree with it." hello?! it's 'free' money, fool!

you're done. you're done.

to other members, i apologize for but someone keeps bringing politics into it.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

1) don't flatter yourself.

2) i'm not a Liberal. i've never been dedicated to one party. during my Naval officer career, i voted Republican. i voted for Trump, in fact. (surprised, eh?) this time i voted Biden. it's called having an open mind. try having one sometime. i'm not blind to "party over people" as you are. i listen to their tickets and vote for who will serve me best at the time. FWIW, my last post was non-political, so i don't even know why you went there. it was mainly to open your mind that getting a PHEV could be a 'FOOK YOU'-type decision to the government u so despise: "ok, give me your gov't money. i'll try it out, but i don't have to like it."

You sound like a guy who is wound up too tight.
Seriously Man, this is an internet forum where people enjoy discussions and poking some fun.
I could care less who you voted for and continue to be amused by the assumptions you make.
Chill out, try and enjoy your day my friend.
We are all car guys and on the same team at that point, no need to get personal.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

Never. Cost of fuel has nothing to do with my preference. I will never, ever own a electric vehicle. Even with a more competent infrastructure to accommodate an electric vehicle (and are not even close in rural America)I have no desire in the electric car.

My biggest concern with EVs is range. I take long road trips and needing to plan around charging stations and charge times is a non-starter. Until they can improve energy density to the point where I can have 1000+ miles of range on a single charge, ICE is the way to go.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by dynamic

We are all car guys and on the same team at that point, no need to get personal.

fair enough, but don't call me a Liberal

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

fair enough, but don't call me a Liberal

All good here too and glad to hear that you are not a "Liberal".

[Wait What?]

Originally Posted by jad03060

TO me, the point is, driving in town is not fun, and when I can do that in EV mode and help keep the air cleaner, keep the noise pollution down too, save money, and avoid gas stations, not being 'fun' in that situation is a fair compromise. But, I can also put it in sport mode when the conditions suggest it, and it still feels more planted than the 40i because the center of gravity is lower. The right tool for the job, IMHO.

For me, it's 100% this ^^^.

I like driving my 45e around town or immediate vicinities in whisper-silent, comfortable and emission-free electric mode, with no gas consumption. And for fun, to me the 45e in Sport mode (and occasionally with Sport transmission) is plenty enough for fun. Of course it is no M or "quasi-M" BMW, but its combined horsepower is definitely enough to keep me happy when I want to press harder on the pedal.

The 45e is my first PHEV and personally I could not be happier with my choice and the way the car drives. Superb vehicle, IMHO.

[Russ103]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

Never. Cost of fuel has nothing to do with my preference. I will never, ever own a electric vehicle. Even with a more competent infrastructure to accommodate an electric vehicle (and are not even close in rural America)I have no desire in the electric car.

I'm with you. My wife has the M50i, and I'm about to trade my Raptor for a 6.2 supercharged V8 TRX that on a good day gets 11 MPG.

Does that answer the OP's question about fuel?

[Frenetic]

Here's an interesting thought. The average American uses 650 gallons of gasoline per year. One barrel of oil can produce roughly 19 gallons of gasoline. However, that represents only approximately 46% of the entire barrel. So, all told, that's roughly 16 barrels of oil per year. Assuming $70 per barrel, that's roughly $1,120 per year from a wholesale oil perspective (not a refined gasoline cost).

Say each year there are 300,000 people who fully convert to all electric (just in the United States). That's $336 million the industry loses in wholesale oil sales per year (480,000 barrels per year). However, this value is cumulative, meaning after five years that value balloons to $1.7 billion.

So for every EV sold, oil companies lose out on potentially 16 barrels of oil sold per year.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

My biggest concern with EVs is range. I take long road trips and needing to plan around charging stations and charge times is a non-starter. Until they can improve energy density to the point where I can have 1000+ miles of range on a single charge, ICE is the way to go.

Agree but the upcoming GMC electric Hummer is looking good. Range and charger availability is a major issue if you are looking to travel distances with any of this EV stuff which I would not do until infrastructure and range tech improves which it certainly will.
8 cents per KWH where we live is another nudge in that direction. 25, 30, 35 cents per KW in some areas and the wheels fall off that wagon.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by Frenetic

Here's an interesting thought. The average American uses 650 gallons of gasoline per year. One barrel of oil can produce roughly 19 gallons of gasoline. However, that represents only approximately 46% of the entire barrel. So, all told, that's roughly 16 barrels of oil per year. Assuming $70 per barrel, that's roughly $1,120 per year from a wholesale oil perspective (not a refined gasoline cost).

Say each year there are 300,000 people who fully convert to all electric (just in the United States). That's $336 million the industry loses in wholesale oil sales per year (480,000 barrels per year). However, this value is cumulative, meaning after five years that value balloons to $1.7 billion.

So for every EV sold, oil companies lose out on potentially 16 barrels of oil sold per year.

LOL!
Does the energy to generate these enormous amounts of electricity needed to charge millions of EVs fall out of the sky?
Fossil fuels provided by the energy companies you refer to are the what balances this equation. Our electricity here is generated in a facility powered by abundant, clean, natural gas which works great and at a very reasonable rate.
I really doubt if even the most bug eyed tree hugger believes that wind mills and solar panels can come anywhere near close to doing this job. Fantasy land nonsense. The fossil fuel industry is going to be alive, quite well, and a good place to invest for a very long time. No great revalation in that statement.

[Flying Ace]

Turning this convo back to consumer choice...

Yesterday was a great use case for my 45e use. I drove exactly 20 miles around town yesterday. Made 3-4 short distance errands in urban driving. All of this was driven on electric.

I depleted about 66% of the battery and charged it up last night at $2.41.

Those same 20 miles would have cost me a bit more than $5 in gasoline for a comparably sized SUV.

So my local energy costs makes driving the 45e in EV the equivalent of $2.50 gas.

Could I afford $5 yesterday ($100 per 2 weeks to fill up what's my pace with my X5D)? Yes. Do I want to knowing I could do it literally I half the cost? Nope.


And btw, I'm not even talking about environmental/emissions/foreign oil dependence impact

Lastly I was thinking, next time I refill gas (at current pace , sometime in Jan 2022), I'll only fill a 1/4 tank until a long distance trip. For me it makes no sense to carry around fuel weight when I don't need it.

[yzlzr227]

I live in Santa Clara, the cost to charge is $0.12/kwh, while gas is over $5/gallon. I bought a level 2 charger from Amazon for $350, and it will be full overnight for sure. If I have to complain, I would say if the battery can lasts longer to 45-50miles, the car is gonna be perfect.

And, even the battery depleted, nothing to complain also, this is a hybrid and it has a relatively powerful engine ( more than enough imo), just use that, otherwise, we should you for a model y