[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Aimster82

I will help you guys all out since we have far right and far left on here that think everything their party does is great all the time. Both parties suck... stop being so in love with your party.

The U.S economy has not grown at 4% since 2000. Both parties love to pump money into the economy when they control government. Both say their way is best and will help the U.S economy grow. The only thing it helps grow is the stock market $. Everyone with a 401K or investments is rich because that money needs to go somewhere and it is usually the market.

Both parties are wrong ... the numbers show that neither has brought a budget surplus. So work together to fix this mess. Nobody wants to work together so stop electing these idiots.

Hey, I agree with you. There is (a lot of) waste on both sides. But the EV tax credit (which is being discussed here) is not the biggest tax credit out there that will lead to increasing taxes and forcing people to buy EVs etc etc.

In this thread, I see a lot more dogma on one side vs the other. Just saying….people are just afraid to call it out I suppose.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Most Americans don't pay any federal taxes at all!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/18/...nter-says.html


Yeah, govt spending is paid by mostly borrowing, not taxes these days…the govt reflects the behavior of it's citizens - leverage debt to the max. Not even sure how many bankruptcies our last President had (more than 4 and less than 10), but he is the financial hero to a lot of people on this thread. Yeah, as President he blew up the deficit like nothing before…yup, still a hero. But noooooo EV credit, that will lead to fiscal ruin. LOL.

Probably time for you to free yourself from the Beltway, "we know best", fantasy land, mindset and thanks for the enlightenment on deficit spending.
The federal government pays citizens to buy EVs with a $12,500 tax reduction and then borrows the money they just spent on their agenda.
Yeah, we know, it's all Trump's fault.

[MystroX5]

Back on BMW vehicle topic or this thread gets closed.

[Frenetic]

I know. The whole point was to find out if other people would consider an EV vehicle at different gas prices.

I’m somewhat gas price insensitive myself, but I do have my limits. That $5 value makes me seriously consider. I was just curious if others here, who I assume are mostly affluent, felt the same way.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, oil companies aren’t doing themselves any favors by raising prices. I know the laws of supply and demand come into play here, but a large majority of oil production is still controlled by a monopoly, a cartel.

[KLCC]

Who would've thought that EV versus ICE discussion could be this contentious

[dynamic]

I put 600 to 700 miles monthly on my primary vehicle which is premium fuel only. At the beginning of this year I was paying $2.30/gallon. Same 93 octane is $3.96 as of yesterday, nasty increase in just 10 months but not a major problem for a low mileage driver.
There is a huge psychological effect when the $5.00 per gallon mark is surpassed especially in areas where gas prices are relatively close to the national average.
EVs become a legitimate alternative at some point and that threshold will vary greatly from person to person.
I'd love to have a sub 3 second EV at the right price to screw around with as a third or forth car but have no interest in one as a daily driver. Obviously technological improvements in range and charging times will effect consumer preferences.

[jad03060]

The average American does not have the luxury of not watching dollars and sometimes pennies. The average person that buys something like an X5 is not often in that category. That's one reason why there has been discussion about a price cap on when the credit can be used, but the original bill also penalized the people that could benefit most from it because they did not pay in that full amount, so could not get the full credit, effectively pricing them out of the market for some EV or PHEV vehicles.

I would have bought the EV and PHEV that I did even without any incentives given my driving needs...mostly shorter distances at lower speeds (I live in a small city, and am retired). The tax credit was a bonus. The X5 is way over the average new car/vehicle purchase price.

I do enjoy not having to go to the gas station often...it was only twice in the first 9-months of ownership, and after a trip, it's now been nearly four months and the computer says I have 93% remaining. I certainly don't mind that I'm not spending money on gasoline, but I could if I had to.

The contrast here is that some people, earning minimum wage, may not be able to afford to drive to their job as the price of gasoline rises. If public transport is available to them, it may not be still running if they've got a late night job, or the service intervals are such that it means waiting maybe an hour for the next bus or train to get them home, then, they have to maybe walk home in the dark.

Too many people are looking out for just themselves, and not looking at society.

Wages for the average worker have been going down for decades while corporate executives has been rising. Most of the tax cuts given in the last presidency went to buy back schemes to prop up stock prices, not help raise wages. My portfolio liked it, but the average person doesn't have enough to pay their bills, so one is maybe out of the question.

[Melbourne_X5M]

Originally Posted by FCX5

LOL. EV employs way more than that…but you missed my point. Not surprised though…at this point.

So Trump gets no tax breaks??? Only EV tax break is bad and wasteful?

I am merely pointing out that somebody else is paying for that EV tax break. Somebody always pays. It is not free from the government.

Whether a person or business or not pays income taxes is irrelevant.

[Melbourne_X5M]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The average American does not have the luxury of not watching dollars and sometimes pennies. The average person that buys something like an X5 is not often in that category. That's one reason why there has been discussion about a price cap on when the credit can be used, but the original bill also penalized the people that could benefit most from it because they did not pay in that full amount, so could not get the full credit, effectively pricing them out of the market for some EV or PHEV vehicles.

I would have bought the EV and PHEV that I did even without any incentives given my driving needs...mostly shorter distances at lower speeds (I live in a small city, and am retired). The tax credit was a bonus. The X5 is way over the average new car/vehicle purchase price.

I do enjoy not having to go to the gas station often...it was only twice in the first 9-months of ownership, and after a trip, it's now been nearly four months and the computer says I have 93% remaining. I certainly don't mind that I'm not spending money on gasoline, but I could if I had to.

The contrast here is that some people, earning minimum wage, may not be able to afford to drive to their job as the price of gasoline rises. If public transport is available to them, it may not be still running if they've got a late night job, or the service intervals are such that it means waiting maybe an hour for the next bus or train to get them home, then, they have to maybe walk home in the dark.

Too many people are looking out for just themselves, and not looking at society.

Wages for the average worker have been going down for decades while corporate executives has been rising. Most of the tax cuts given in the last presidency went to buy back schemes to prop up stock prices, not help raise wages. My portfolio liked it, but the average person doesn't have enough to pay their bills, so one is maybe out of the question.

This is an interesting, assumption filled, perspective fueled by personal biases. Thanks for sharing.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M

I am merely pointing out that somebody else is paying for that EV tax break. Somebody always pays. It is not free from the government.

Whether a person or business or not pays income taxes is irrelevant.

No it's not. It is exactly the same. You are paying 'less' taxes in both cases. Just throwing in a word like 'irrelevant' does not make it so. Sorry, you are incorrect (wrong).

[MOTOP]

Originally Posted by KLCC

Who would've thought that EV versus ICE discussion could be this contentious

Who?
Your friends in Norway.
Buying EVs like you’ve never seen.

[Melbourne_X5M]

Originally Posted by FCX5

No it's not. It is exactly the same. You are paying 'less' taxes in both cases. Just throwing in a word like 'irrelevant' does not make it so. Sorry, you are incorrect (wrong).

Whatever makes you feel secure about yourself.

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

you make some valid points, but i can't help but get the feeling you're being a snob about it. (i hope you don't mean to be.) Florida is great for you, but you push your perceived advantages about that state onto all of us here with your distaste or unwillingness to accept EVs in its current iteration. you snark at CA's higher utility costs compared to your 'affluent paradise'. other states have higher-than-FL utility costs and affluent communities, too, and they choose to live there for various reasons.

those "downsides" you mentioned above you referred to them as the "dark side of EVs" in another thread. they are to you. for me, they had no negative bearing whatsoever on my decision to purchase the 45e. in my use-case, i've been able to utilize its EV capability 99% of the time in 11 months. i've mentioned numerous times it was one of the best purchases i've made in my adult life. going solar just adds more cherry. the tax credits have been phenomenal. the daily operating cost and sheer driving pleasure of the 45e is utterly satisfying given i'm lugging a 3.5-ton vehicle. why do you try so hard to downplay others' interest in EV/PHEVs?

it honestly doesn't feel like you're humbly trying to convince your fellow man to realize there are simply better choices out there regarding the 45e or similar vehicles. you say things like, "Hopefully the day will come when EVs will stand on their own merrit and the government no longer..." we get it. you don't like Biden, and you don't like the EV/PHEV 'thing' right now that he and other like-minded folks/states/agencies are embracing, but your undertones in many of your critical posts in this forum come across as very anti-Liberal, pro-Republican, which i've kindly asked you in another thread to subdue.

Sounds like a lot of crying to me.

[jad03060]

The 45e may not be everyone's cup of tea! But, it has no power penalty compared to the 40i in that the power/weight ratio are essentially identical. In the USA, if you're able to get the federal tax credit, it's less expensive than the 40i version, and the operating costs are lower, if that's a consideration to you. The brakes should last longer with the regenerational braking, but the tires may not as it is carrying around more weight.

If the slightly less rear storage capacity and lack of the possibility of a third row aren't an issue to you, IMHO, there isn't a downside.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The 45e may not be everyone's cup of tea! But, it has no power penalty compared to the 40i in that the power/weight ratio are essentially identical. In the USA, if you're able to get the federal tax credit, it's less expensive than the 40i version, and the operating costs are lower, if that's a consideration to you. The brakes should last longer with the regenerational braking, but the tires may not as it is carrying around more weight.

If the slightly less rear storage capacity and lack of the possibility of a third row aren't an issue to you, IMHO, there isn't a downside.

Also you get air suspension and the battery pack has the advantage of slightly reducing road noise. At least to me the 45e is the quietest and most cpmfortable X5 version around. Although, the battery and motor add additional points of failure, the battery has a long warranty.

If you don't have a garage to charge it, I suppose it won't be worth it. I do wish it had faster charging. For a PHEV the range is fine for most daily commutes.

[jad03060]

Charging is probably one of the biggest issues with any PHEV or EV. Not everyone has a garage, or even a reliable street parking place. In some parts of the world, they're adding plugs to street light poles, that makes plug-in charging more accessible to more people...

FWIW, you could own a 45e and never plug it in, but you'd be missing many of its useful functions, but it would just continue to work like an ICE.

[volodp]

I'm not sure that light pole charging would ever work for a PHEV. Occupying a socket for the whole night to have those 40-odd miles of electric range certainly isn't something they would be installing those sockets for. For an EV being able to charge is absolutely essential while for a PHEV it's rather about convenience or economy.

[jad03060]

Most of the places talking about this are in Europe, so a 220vac socket would recharge the 45e overnight if you had to park on the road, or during a typical work day. MOst of them are talking about just a socket, not an EVSE, although more EVSEs are also in their plans along with CCS units (which wouldn't help the 45e, at least for now).

[volodp]

That's right. 45e would fully charge overnight. But I have already faced some situations where EV owners would blame me for taking the spot that for them would be essential and for me was just a way to save a few bucks.

Oh, and it also happened to me that I came to the car and my charging cable was unplugged from the EVSE and laying on the ground. Another way to say the same thing from the Tesla owners, I guess.

[allinon72]

The infrastructure of providing a 60amp circuit to every pole is enormous. Not only in cost but effort. It would also require some sort of base station every 20-25 poles to house the transformer and related electrical panels to support that much power. That may be down the line in very select areas, but that's not a short term scalable idea.

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by allinon72

The infrastructure of providing a 60amp circuit to every pole is enormous. Not only in cost but effort. It would also require some sort of base station every 20-25 poles to house the transformer and related electrical panels to support that much power. That may be down the line in very select areas, but that's not a short term scalable idea.

Who said it has to be 60A service!? For most people, if they are commuting, or don't have their own off-street parking place where they can charge, something much smaller would be more than fine.

We're not talking about CCS or even EVSE where people are on a trip with a depleted battery and need to recharge to continue their trip...but to aid those that don't or can't charge at home, or to recharge while at work so they can get both directions on electrons.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Who said it has to be 60A service!? For most people, if they are commuting, or don't have their own off-street parking place where they can charge, something much smaller would be more than fine.

We're not talking about CCS or even EVSE where people are on a trip with a depleted battery and need to recharge to continue their trip...but to aid those that don't or can't charge at home, or to recharge while at work so they can get both directions on electrons.

The juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze for anything less than 40amp 220v.