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      11-25-2021, 04:54 PM   #111
jad03060
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To me, the goal would be to enable the average vehicle to recharge overnight for those that don't have a place they can do it, or, to recharge while at work. We're not talking about installing EVSEs everywhere, just a plug...you'd use your own to plug in. Considering the average commute is 30-miles or so, even at lower maximum rates, most people would be able to recharge and start their trip fully charged. If you are on a trip...no, that wouldn't' be sufficient, and there's plans and already existing fast charging networks being developed...IMHO, this is more to help the person say living in an apartment or running errands or commuting to work to get a top off, not total refill...depends on what your expectations are.

There are two different needs...continue your trip, or daily operations...the poles could help with the later. A robust network of fast charging would not replace that, and, using one daily while you walk the rest of the way home would mean a fast charger would be tied up and mess up the flow for people on a trip.
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      11-25-2021, 07:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
To me, the goal would be to enable the average vehicle to recharge overnight for those that don't have a place they can do it, or, to recharge while at work. We're not talking about installing EVSEs everywhere, just a plug...you'd use your own to plug in. Considering the average commute is 30-miles or so, even at lower maximum rates, most people would be able to recharge and start their trip fully charged. If you are on a trip...no, that wouldn't' be sufficient, and there's plans and already existing fast charging networks being developed...IMHO, this is more to help the person say living in an apartment or running errands or commuting to work to get a top off, not total refill...depends on what your expectations are.

There are two different needs...continue your trip, or daily operations...the poles could help with the later. A robust network of fast charging would not replace that, and, using one daily while you walk the rest of the way home would mean a fast charger would be tied up and mess up the flow for people on a trip.
I am not an engineer or an expert on EV but I do not believe it takes a genius to clearly see that plug in EV technology will not provide the convenience and ease of use of ICE. Many reasons why EV tech is long way from being a practical choice for the masses.

I fail to grasp the reason that employers need to provide charging stations. Why? Even if they did and would charge, there would be not enough stations if you had more than a few dozen vehicles to charge daily.

Cannot see how this is feasible in large cities where most park on the streets. There would have to be as many plugs as there are parking meters! Who puts that infrastructure in place? Who pays? Where does all this power come from? At what rates? If are in CA and subject to rolling blackouts you are screwed.

Gas stations are here to stay. 10 pumps can process 200 cars per hour. Do the math with PHEV or full EV charging times.
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      11-25-2021, 07:19 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M View Post
Whatever makes you feel secure about yourself.
there you go again. Throwing out random phrases trying to show you're above it all. If anything your comment sounds like someone who is looking for 'their' security. LOL

Last edited by FCX5; 11-25-2021 at 09:58 PM..
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      11-25-2021, 08:36 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futbol View Post
I am not an engineer or an expert on EV but I do not believe it takes a genius to clearly see that plug in EV technology will not provide the convenience and ease of use of ICE. Many reasons why EV tech is long way from being a practical choice for the masses.

Gas stations are here to stay. 10 pumps can process 200 cars per hour. Do the math with PHEV or full EV charging times.
As per 2015 Census housing survey, two thirds of housing units in US have a garage or a carport.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...age-or-carport

Most of EV charging is done overnight at home when overall energy consumption is low and there is plenty of capacity available. My 45e “refuels” when I am sleeping.
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      11-25-2021, 08:44 PM   #115
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If an apartment has a carport, many of them do not have any plugs in them. Just having a garage or carport does not mean it would support an EVSE. And yes, some places are considering an outlet at their parking meters.

Companies are having more and more problems keeping qualified people, so that is an incentive to make it easier for people to charge their vehicles.

This picture is from Oslo...
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      11-27-2021, 10:04 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
there you go again. Throwing out random phrases trying to show you're above it all. If anything your comment sounds like someone who is looking for 'their' security. LOL
You are clearly a legend in your own mind. It would be best for you to stick to what you actually know a good bit about…aside from yourself, that is. On that subject, nobody else cares.
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      11-28-2021, 01:20 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
there you go again. Throwing out random phrases trying to show you're above it all. If anything your comment sounds like someone who is looking for 'their' security. LOL
You are clearly a legend in your own mind. It would be best for you to stick to what you actually know a good bit about…aside from yourself, that is. On that subject, nobody else cares.
You're basically proving me right every single post of yours! All random words with no point. LOL you cared enough to reply.
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      11-28-2021, 01:27 AM   #118
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People only need a place to charge at home or at work, not both. Most people charge at home overnight. The issue will be a need to place outlets or charging stations for millions of apartments.
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      11-28-2021, 09:17 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futbol View Post
I am not an engineer or an expert on EV but I do not believe it takes a genius to clearly see that plug in EV technology will not provide the convenience and ease of use of ICE. Many reasons why EV tech is long way from being a practical choice for the masses.

I fail to grasp the reason that employers need to provide charging stations. Why? Even if they did and would charge, there would be not enough stations if you had more than a few dozen vehicles to charge daily.

Cannot see how this is feasible in large cities where most park on the streets. There would have to be as many plugs as there are parking meters! Who puts that infrastructure in place? Who pays? Where does all this power come from? At what rates? If are in CA and subject to rolling blackouts you are screwed.

Gas stations are here to stay. 10 pumps can process 200 cars per hour. Do the math with PHEV or full EV charging times.
Most refreshing to read this. A post from someone who has not been brainwashed with the "we must all drive EVs" BS from the powers that be.
The overwhelming majority of Americans will not consider an EV until the charging time is profoundly reduced and the range at least triples. How many would be sold now if the government wasn't paying people many thousands of dollars in the form of a tax break to adopt one.
As you have stated, gas stations are going to be around for a long time.
Technology will bring us to the juncture where EVs become a no brainer for most but we are no where even close to that point. Might be 10 years, might be 50 years, no one knows right now.
Fossil fuels are profoundly important in our world and will be for the rest of our lives.

Last edited by dynamic; 11-28-2021 at 09:22 AM..
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      11-28-2021, 10:06 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamic View Post
Most refreshing to read this. A post from someone who has not been brainwashed with the "we must all drive EVs" BS from the powers that be.
[...]
As you have stated, gas stations are going to be around for a long time [insert treehugger (you edited out original sentence)]
above word choices and phrasing sound so familiar...
there's this post from 11/21:
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Originally Posted by dynamic View Post
[...]We are all car guys and on the same team at that point, no need to get personal.
then this old post from 8/29:
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Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
We are all car guys and on the same team at that point, have a good Sunday evening.
as 45e21 noted in a different thread:
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Originally Posted by 45e21 View Post
My friend, you keep going back to the old rants even with your new login handle.
HELLO AGAIN, speedyman! waited about a month before joining under a different handle, eh? how long until you get yourself banned this time?
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Last edited by nZtiZia; 11-28-2021 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: UPDATE: dynamic's account and IP address were banned shortly after
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      11-28-2021, 10:11 AM   #121
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How about getting back on topic.
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      11-28-2021, 02:14 PM   #122
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Younger people seem to be a bit more interested in the environment, and it costs employers a lot of money when hiring someone before they're most efficient (at least in some highly technical fields). Things that can be done to help retain workers can have some significant paybacks. In one of the last jobs I had, we found that it took about a year before a new hire was truly effective and providing much more than a place holder, so while their salary and benefits costs weren't a total loss, it was still significant. Average starting salary out of school was in the $70-80K for a well-qualified employee, and throw in the benefit package required to lure them in, it was not insignificant. Doing something like adding an EVSE for them was cheap.

This isn't as true for hiring some minimum wage person to the same degree, but turnover there is still expensive. Ask almost any service industry owner how easy it is to find and retain qualified people...the tech industry is similar.
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      11-28-2021, 02:38 PM   #123
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For me and my universe it’s about range and time to fill up. IF you can get a electric vehicle to get 600 miles in range AND be able to charge it fully in under 20 minutes then we have a genuine alternative. The two people I know that drives a Taycan plays the hyper mileing game and significantly modifies their driving habits to eke close to the reported range specs. It becomes a frustrating game of battery life anxiety.
Next hurdle is if you could get the commercial aviation industry to prove they can get the power and reliability from a electric platform.
Until then, we are talking apples vs oranges when comparing on a true equal performance platform.

Last edited by MystroX5; 11-28-2021 at 02:44 PM..
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      11-28-2021, 02:49 PM   #124
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For me and my universe it's about range and time to fill up. IF you can get a electric vehicle to get 600 miles in range AND be able to charge it fully in under 20 minutes then we have a genuine alternative.
Next hurdle is if you could get the commercial aviation industry to prove they can get the power and reliability from a electric platform.
Until then, we are talking apples to oranges when comparing on a true equal platform.
We can have both, I have 1 ICE and 1 EV. For DD EV is fine. For longer road-trips ICE is better. I see PHEV's as a good current solution. Next gen PHEVs might be what most people need. I am betting on PHEVs for the next 20 years.

For air travel I doubt EV has any chance in my life time (next 50 years).

My 2 cents worth…
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      11-28-2021, 05:11 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
For air travel I doubt EV has any chance in my life time (next 50 years).

My 2 cents worth…
You'll see EVs in aviation before the end of the decade, but likely only on shorter hops...not long distance trips. You might see FCEV, but that's got a bigger public relations problem given its history in aviation even though we're talking applesranges.
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      11-28-2021, 05:30 PM   #126
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I went to a dealer today in SoCal and they didn’t have one xdrive45e for me to test drive, been selling them super quick. They had one there that someone was buying. Also they’ve been going 7-8k over msrp, per a salesman there. Said BMW has authorized them to go up to $10k msrp… I was hoping to get one under msrp but now not so sure… anybody here similar experiences?
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      11-28-2021, 05:54 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by amtrak.yams View Post
I was hoping to get one under msrp but now not so sure… anybody here similar experiences?
it's mentioned in a several threads about pricing, ordering, etc. which can be found in the following subforum:
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=744

'tis the market we're in, unfortunately.
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      11-28-2021, 07:48 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amtrak.yams View Post
I went to a dealer today in SoCal and they didn’t have one xdrive45e for me to test drive, been selling them super quick. They had one there that someone was buying. Also they’ve been going 7-8k over msrp, per a salesman there. Said BMW has authorized them to go up to $10k msrp… I was hoping to get one under msrp but now not so sure… anybody here similar experiences?
Same situation I had gone through 4 dealerships. This is a crazy market with the supply shortage.

Last edited by GS2019; 11-28-2021 at 08:48 PM..
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      11-28-2021, 08:36 PM   #129
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That's right. 45e would fully charge overnight. But I have already faced some situations where EV owners would blame me for taking the spot that for them would be essential and for me was just a way to save a few bucks.

Oh, and it also happened to me that I came to the car and my charging cable was unplugged from the EVSE and laying on the ground. Another way to say the same thing from the Tesla owners, I guess.
Oh god this so ridiculous..
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      11-28-2021, 09:19 PM   #130
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Oh god this so ridiculous..
Charge envy I guess! Society behaves rather oddly these days. It is all about me! Tesla owners are the quintessential wannabe elite class that will save the world. It makes them feel good to drive an all EV that generated more pollution in its manufacturing and will do so than driving a ICE vehicle for over 100,000 miles. Then you have the toxic battery disposal to deal with. Pseudo environmentalists!

I am getting a PHEV for the torque and $7500 that I will get from the Feds who took it in the first place.
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      11-28-2021, 09:59 PM   #131
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The total pollution equation for an EV versus an ICE can look quite a bit different based on what is used to recharge the thing. The first estimates out there were based on mostly coal and NG fired generators...in some places, those are falling out of use far faster than anyone thought. This changes the breakeven point considerably. Battery packs when they're no longer useful in a vehicle still can have a decade or more use in grid buffering, and the recycling will improve considerable as there's more of them and people figure out better ways to recycle them, easier to do with multiple similar units versus a limited supply of random units.

So, the statements about breakeven are way off when redone with current, unbiased evaluation.
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      11-29-2021, 02:42 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCX5 View Post
I see PHEV's as a good current solution. Next gen PHEVs might be what most people need. I am betting on PHEVs for the next 20 years.
I see it in a similar way. Not sure about 20 years but when I was choosing a car for the next 6-7 years, I've decided to get a PHEV and so far no regrets whatsoever. Depending on how it goes, I might go full EV or buy another PHEV when the time comes.

And I'm one of those not being able to charge overnight, by the way. I can charge at the office and while during the week I drive purely on electricity, by the end of Saturday I'm usually out of juice and Sundays are usually pure ICE like in the old days. And I have plenty of long trips too. Still the overall consumption is much less than I ever had in my F15 30D.
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