[TXSchnee]

I have 2 vehicles on order right now, and trying to decide between them. One is a Cayenne E Hybrid, which is currently on it's way to the US. Second is a 45e that BMWNA just accepted today and should have a production date soon. I have optioned the X5 up to $81k and the Cayenne is $115k so there is a huge price delta. My question to those that already have one, would you buy a 45e again? Have you had many issues that you consider unacceptable? I have driven the Cayenne, and love it, haven't had a chance to drive the 45e so I am not sure if I would like it (had an F15 xdrive 35i, loved it). Trying to decide between being economical, or fun.

[jwtw20]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

I have 2 vehicles on order right now, and trying to decide between them. One is a Cayenne E Hybrid, which is currently on it's way to the US. Second is a 45e that BMWNA just accepted today and should have a production date soon. I have optioned the X5 up to $81k and the Cayenne is $115k so there is a huge price delta. My question to those that already have one, would you buy a 45e again? Have you had many issues that you consider unacceptable? I have driven the Cayenne, and love it, haven't had a chance to drive the 45e so I am not sure if I would like it (had an F15 xdrive 35i, loved it). Trying to decide between being economical, or fun.

The 45e is not economical unless you charge it everyday and drive sensibly. Otherwise you are driving a 40i with the additional weight of the batteries. Drive the 45e like you stole it and it's about 14/15mpg

[PeterPuitG]

The 45e is superb in its hybrid combination, the cayenne is probably a bit more sporty to drive but the 45e is no slouch either thanks to its 6l B58 engine rather than the 4pot in the 40e.

To be economical you should indeed charge it overnight, if you don't no idea what the consumption delta will be between Cayenne and 45e, but at the purchase price delta you start the 45e will definitely be the cheaper TCO.

If you want to be sure, drive the 45e, i am sure it will not feel 24k less of a car!
I would buy mine again for sure.

[X5 45e]

I like driving the 45e. It is silent around town. It has enough range. The instant electric torque makes driving more fluent. If you need power the 6 cylinder has more than enough.

It is also a relaxing car to drive if you want it to.

The extra weight is noticeable in fast corners compared to the 30d

I would buy it again but in Belgium and other European countries it is a tax driven choice. For me it a cheaper to drive a 45e than a 30d or 40i. Even with the 45e coating 10k more.

Without tax benefit and if prices of the 40i and 45e where similar I would still chose the 45e. I like the relaxing electric drive and pre cooling function.

If you are not looking for a relaxed electric drive and there is not tax benefit, you may as wel buy a 40i because you are never going to recuperate the price difference by fuel economy alone.

The Cayenne is considered a fake hybride and doesn't have the same tax benefit in Belgium so we don't see it a lot. I looks nice. But I don't know I would spent that much more money.

Up till now I didn't have major problems. But there are some 45e owners that did. I don't think the 45e engines has more problems than others? I see a lot of 50i enigine / AC problems.

[Heavyd]

I don't know. The +12 month waiting time is a huge killer. On the other hand there is no good alternative if fiscality is important.

[svcauwen]

I have the 45e now for about 5 months and I'm really happy with my choice. As already stated above, in Belgium it's a tax-friendly car but not only this: it drives great! I come from an F80 (I know, quite a change) and really don't miss it. The car is very comfortable and if you want power & acceleration you definitely have it.
On the negative: if you do a lot of km's/miles, fuel consumption is quite high. On the other hand if your daily trips fall within the electric range it's the best option on the market. My choice for hybrid: I really don't wanna be dependent of the electric range and have to bother about charging when doing long distances.
I had some minor issues which were resolved by a software update.
So would I choose the 45e again: definitely, 100%!

[BXdriver]

- Just placed an order for a 45e.

As in our profile picture, we had a 25d from new/2014, but traded it last year due to age/5 years.

As we are in Norway (the tax benefits/fees etc being a bit similar to Belgium as I can see the owner here), the 45e comes out very favourable compared to the 30d. The 25d seems no more an option.

We were very happy with the 25d, quite fine power, because again...we are in Norway... :-). (Meaning we cannot really benefit from any high power engines/cars anyway - just when bypassing other cars and similar, the kick is good to have)

After testdriving the 45e, I personally was very surprised how smooth the electric/gas system worked together. Even the soft aacceleration with the (not so big) electric engine felt quite adequate. I have ca 40km roundtrip to my work, and here I will be able to glide in pure electric. Will install a home-charger box in the garage.

Then, for private driving or longer trips, the car can use some more gas...thats fine with us, as the total should be quite nice anyway.

As we know the 2014 X5 well, this new one will just be better and I am pretty sure - a winner for us.

All best
BXdriver

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by BXdriver

- Just placed an order for a 45e.

As in our profile picture, we had a 25d from new/2014, but traded it last year due to age/5 years.

As we are in Norway (the tax benefits/fees etc being a bit similar to Belgium as I can see the owner here), the 45e comes out very favourable compared to the 30d. The 25d seems no more an option.

We were very happy with the 25d, quite fine power, because again...we are in Norway... :-). (Meaning we cannot really benefit from any high power engines/cars anyway - just when bypassing other cars and similar, the kick is good to have)

After testdriving the 45e, I personally was very surprised how smooth the electric/gas system worked together. Even the soft aacceleration with the (not so big) electric engine felt quite adequate. I have ca 40km roundtrip to my work, and here I will be able to glide in pure electric. Will install a home-charger box in the garage.

Then, for private driving or longer trips, the car can use some more gas...thats fine with us, as the total should be quite nice anyway.

As we know the 2014 X5 well, this new one will just be better and I am pretty sure - a winner for us.

All best
BXdriver

Did the say anything about delivery time?

[vonkobalus]

The decision "for" or "against" 45e is EXTREMELY simple.

A) You have an option to reliably charge your car overnight at minimum 2.5kW at home AND you are NOT constantly driving very long distances -> BUY IT!

B) If not -> go for either 30d (economical) or 50i (V8 fun).

There are really NO other advantages for 45e rather than amazing fuel economy when charging overnight at home. All other advantages (silent city driving, power & acceleration boost with enough juice in the batteries) are not worth it if you're not able to charge it at home.

Also, please make sure to absolutely keep in mind that only charging at home (and NOT public charging stations) makes sense due to very slow charging. Even at MAX (3.7kW) it takes 6-7 hours (you need home charger for this). If charging from 2-pin socket you get only 2.3kW (10 hours). That means that in real life you'll never charge at charging stations, because it will be EXTREMELY expensive -> the vast majority of charging stations charges very high surcharges for long-time charging or even charges you for i.e. 22kW charging where you'll only be charging at 3.7kW. In this case you'll simply pay much more than simply fill diesel or gas into the tank.

Oh, and also please make sure that you have at least very cheap or (almost) free electricity at home ... because if you're paying like 20c/kWh ($0.2/kWh), then the efficiency will not be good ... yes, it will be on the board computer as MPG, but not in your wallet ;-) In my example I have solar plant on my roof and this brings me to (almost) free electricity.

I have 45e now for 2 months and I'm extremely satisfied with it ... but like I said this comes mainly because I always charge at home and mostly drive <100km per trip. It also happens sometimes that I have a short morning trip and an afternoon trip -> the car is fully charged between trips. This brings me to very good fuel efficiency -> currently at 5.200km ~3200miles with 5 l/100km or ~48 U.S. MPG (I had a few long family trips during this time).

Sorry for long post ... but I'll finish with this ... all this talk also brings us to the by far most annoying "quirk" of the 45e ... and this is the RIDICULOUS slow charging at 3.7kW ... a $20k electric cars are nowadays capable of 22kW (I will not even talk about 150+kW Tesla fast charge). If BMW would do (at least) a 22kW charging then it would actually make sense to also charge it at public charging stations. This would mean that also charging at paid supermarket charging stations, public paid stations on parking lots etc. would dramatically improve the MPG.

So ... don't buy 45e if you're only looking at "fun" factor ... the 50i is for this. 45e is all about MPG efficiency when one is capable of charging at home.

*edit: I used this site https://www.calculateme.com/gas-mile...ers-per-100-km to convert from l/km to MPG ... because I live in Europe and my cars shows l/100 km consumption.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by vonkobalus

The decision "for" or "against" 45e is EXTREMELY simple.

A) You have an option to reliably charge your car overnight at minimum 2.5kW at home AND you are NOT constantly driving very long distances -> BUY IT!

B) If not -> go for either 30d (economical) or 50i (V8 fun).

There are really NO other advantages for 45e rather than amazing fuel economy when charging overnight at home. All other advantages (silent city driving, power & acceleration boost with enough juice in the batteries) are not worth it if you're not able to charge it at home.

Also, please make sure to absolutely keep in mind that only charging at home (and NOT public charging stations) makes sense due to very slow charging. Even at MAX (3.7kW) it takes 6-7 hours (you need home charger for this). If charging from 2-pin socket you get only 2.3kW (10 hours). That means that in real life you'll never charge at charging stations, because it will be EXTREMELY expensive -> the vast majority of charging stations charges very high surcharges for long-time charging or even charges you for i.e. 22kW charging where you'll only be charging at 3.7kW. In this case you'll simply pay much more than simply fill diesel or gas into the tank.

Oh, and also please make sure that you have at least very cheap or (almost) free electricity at home ... because if you're paying like 20c/kWh ($0.2/kWh), then the efficiency will not be good ... yes, it will be on the board computer as MPG, but not in your wallet ;-) In my example I have solar plant on my roof and this brings me to (almost) free electricity.

I have 45e now for 2 months and I'm extremely satisfied with it ... but like I said this comes mainly because I always charge at home and mostly drive <100km per trip. It also happens sometimes that I have a short morning trip and an afternoon trip -> the car is fully charged between trips. This brings me to very good fuel efficiency -> currently at 5.200km ~3200miles with 5 l/100km or ~48 U.S. MPG (I had a few long family trips during this time).

Sorry for long post ... but I'll finish with this ... all this talk also brings us to the by far most annoying "quirk" of the 45e ... and this is the RIDICULOUS slow charging at 3.7kW ... a $20k electric cars are nowadays capable of 22kW (I will not even talk about 150+kW Tesla fast charge). If BMW would do (at least) a 22kW charging then it would actually make sense to also charge it at public charging stations. This would mean that also charging at paid supermarket charging stations, public paid stations on parking lots etc. would dramatically improve the MPG.

So ... don't buy 45e if you're only looking at "fun" factor ... the 50i is for this. 45e is all about MPG efficiency when one is capable of charging at home.

*edit: I used this site https://www.calculateme.com/gas-mile...ers-per-100-km to convert from l/km to MPG ... because I live in Europe and my cars shows l/100 km consumption.

You are a bit pessimistic about destination charging.

I did some trips the last week. One to a city centre where we stayed for 5 hours and I was able to charge the car from 10 to 100% and was able to drive home almost fully electric and also use the nice free parking spot at a good location.

Another trip to the beach and I also found a free charger thus fully charging in the 6 hours we where there.

Charging at a fuel station for 30 minutes along the highway is completely useless indeed and very expensive.

A 7,2 KwH onboard charger like Audi would be better. It would be more useful for the bit longer shortstop (3 hours). However I can still fully charge it over night with my home charger at 2,3 KwH.

Chargers are often located in good spots in the city and are often free. So it makes sense just to plug in to have that free spot.

Being able to charge at home is absolutely necessary indeed.

But at the end in Europe the choise for the 45e is 99% tax / money driven. Probably most of us would have bought a 50i if taxes where not so high.

[screamace]

We have a 2019 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid which uses very similar electric motor and battery to the Cayenne E-Hybrid (different engine though). It's not going to get nearly as much range as X5 45e, around 18 miles in our use. Still good for around town use (we filled up every ~1000 miles and currently averages 60MPG+ lol). We just use a 120V charger to charge it overnight, don't really see the need for 240V.

We had an X5 40e previously. We liked it a lot, a few things we didn't like:
- the small electric motor (all electric start from stop was soooo slow);
- the 4-cyl engine (it's ok; but for mountain drive with family on gas only, it's not as "graceful" as we'd like);
- the smaller trunk.

My understanding is X5 45e improved on all these aspects, so would be perfect for our need were it available last year.

[X5 45e]

Just out of curiosity. What is the benefit of driving a PHEV in the USA. Do you also get lower taxes? Or are there other reasons.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Just out of curiosity. What is the benefit of driving a PHEV in the USA. Do you also get lower taxes? Or are there other reasons.

There are some, one time, tax benefits. A $6712 tax credit on the Cayenne, and a $7500 on the 45e. Mostly, it is a way to reduce my carbon foot print, I have 2 young kids and trying to do what we can. I cannot go full electric as my car is the family car and my sister lives 1300 miles away (so, road trip).

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by vonkobalus

The decision "for" or "against" 45e is EXTREMELY simple.

A) You have an option to reliably charge your car overnight at minimum 2.5kW at home AND you are NOT constantly driving very long distances -> BUY IT!

B) If not -> go for either 30d (economical) or 50i (V8 fun).

There are really NO other advantages for 45e rather than amazing fuel economy when charging overnight at home. All other advantages (silent city driving, power & acceleration boost with enough juice in the batteries) are not worth it if you're not able to charge it at home.

Also, please make sure to absolutely keep in mind that only charging at home (and NOT public charging stations) makes sense due to very slow charging. Even at MAX (3.7kW) it takes 6-7 hours (you need home charger for this). If charging from 2-pin socket you get only 2.3kW (10 hours). That means that in real life you'll never charge at charging stations, because it will be EXTREMELY expensive -> the vast majority of charging stations charges very high surcharges for long-time charging or even charges you for i.e. 22kW charging where you'll only be charging at 3.7kW. In this case you'll simply pay much more than simply fill diesel or gas into the tank.

Oh, and also please make sure that you have at least very cheap or (almost) free electricity at home ... because if you're paying like 20c/kWh ($0.2/kWh), then the efficiency will not be good ... yes, it will be on the board computer as MPG, but not in your wallet ;-) In my example I have solar plant on my roof and this brings me to (almost) free electricity.

I have 45e now for 2 months and I'm extremely satisfied with it ... but like I said this comes mainly because I always charge at home and mostly drive <100km per trip. It also happens sometimes that I have a short morning trip and an afternoon trip -> the car is fully charged between trips. This brings me to very good fuel efficiency -> currently at 5.200km ~3200miles with 5 l/100km or ~48 U.S. MPG (I had a few long family trips during this time).

Sorry for long post ... but I'll finish with this ... all this talk also brings us to the by far most annoying "quirk" of the 45e ... and this is the RIDICULOUS slow charging at 3.7kW ... a $20k electric cars are nowadays capable of 22kW (I will not even talk about 150+kW Tesla fast charge). If BMW would do (at least) a 22kW charging then it would actually make sense to also charge it at public charging stations. This would mean that also charging at paid supermarket charging stations, public paid stations on parking lots etc. would dramatically improve the MPG.

So ... don't buy 45e if you're only looking at "fun" factor ... the 50i is for this. 45e is all about MPG efficiency when one is capable of charging at home.

*edit: I used this site https://www.calculateme.com/gas-mile...ers-per-100-km to convert from l/km to MPG ... because I live in Europe and my cars shows l/100 km consumption.

We just put in a 240v (US) plug for a level 2 charger. So I will have overnight charging ability.

[ikheetleon]

Yes I would buy it again. I have a home charger and solar panels so cheap charging. I came from an F15 M50d. I have so many short trips (< 10km) that I hardly ever put gas in it. With the M50d I had about 1 tank per week, now 1 tank per 2 months. I come home, plug it in, on a sunny day the solar panels charge the car, otherwise it will charge at night at low rates. I do switch to petrol if I drive above 90 km/h otherwise it's to slow for me. There are still some tech/software issue with the 45e at this moment. They will all be fixed eventually, but with all new tech, being an early adopter, comes with some quircks. Difference between the M50i and 45e is about 50k euro in my country. That's a bit too much for me for just 2 extra cilinders.

[vonkobalus]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

We just put in a 240v (US) plug for a level 2 charger. So I will have overnight charging ability.

In this case 45e will be a great car for you. It's very hard to compare Porsche to BMW (different car philosophy), but Porsche currently does not have an 45e alternative if you can charge at home. Great MPG, very comfortable (standard air suspension), great family car.

[W0ut]

Love my car, the hybrid drive-train is superb but I would not buy an X5 (any version) again just because of the size.

I have no issues, love the luxury, average mileage of 7l/100km, very comfortable but when it comes to driving pleasure, connecting with the machine and especially being involved... I had a lot more fun with my old 330d (even though it was an automatic) .

I knew this upfront. Made my choice based upon tax incentives, will not make same mistake again... ;-)

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by W0ut

Love my car, the hybrid drive-train is superb but I would not buy an X5 (any version) again just because of the size.

I have no issues, love the luxury, average mileage of 7l/100km, very comfortable but when it comes to driving pleasure, connecting with the machine and especially being involved... I had a lot more fun with my old 330d (even though it was an automatic) .

I knew this upfront. Made my choice based upon tax incentives, will not make same mistake again... ;-)

I have the opposite experience. I drove 3 and 5 series. And after that X5 and X6. This will be my 5th X. I will never go back to a 3 or 5 series, not even X3
For me this is the ultimate driving machine. But maybe I'm just an old fart now

[robby818]

I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by robby818

I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?

Yes it is worse.

The regenerative charging by braking is minimal. It wil only give you a couple of extra miles.

Doesn't the Prius basically drive electric all the time and charges the battery with the ICE if necessary? I think this is another concept.

The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.

You can charge the battery to 100% and drive electric. But this will use more fuel than if you would just drive on fuel.

Better buy a 40i if you are not able to charge. The engine has more HP in the 40i and in the 45e you will basically drive around with 250 Kg of batteries in the trunk that you will never use.

[W0ut]

Originally Posted by robby818

I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?

Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by W0ut

Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)

That is actually better than I expected. Maybe it is not so much worse than a 40i.