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      06-13-2020, 08:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
30 miles is very pessimistic.
Last few weeks I get a consistent 65km (40.3 miles) per charge.


The Porsche Taycan was also getting a rather low range score in USA. A lot of online reviews indicate they had no problem beating this range. Even with the sporty driving they did during the reviews.
Yes, people need to understand that the EPA estimate models for electric range are a joke.

There are documented discrepancies and inconsistencies around how different manufacturers are allowed to advertise range based on how the EPA feels the manual is written. For example some cars get to advertise range at 100% charge and others get to advertise 90% or 80% charge based on the wording of the manual or the way the user experience works.

Additionally, while the SAE tests used by the EPA are fairly consistent, in the end they use a multiplier that acts as a safety, and manufacturers can negotiate this multiplier. The vast majority of cars stick to a 0.7, so the EPA rating is 70% of what the actual testing got. Tesla often negotiates to ensure their models get the same number over the course of iterative improvements, they sometimes use upwards of 80%. Being able to advertise 10% more range with an identical test number is a big deal, especially on full EVs.

One really can't compare two vehicles based on EPA rated miles, except maybe in very broad strokes.
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      06-13-2020, 10:21 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
Yes, people need to understand that the EPA estimate models for electric range are a joke.

There are documented discrepancies and inconsistencies around how different manufacturers are allowed to advertise range based on how the EPA feels the manual is written. For example some cars get to advertise range at 100% charge and others get to advertise 90% or 80% charge based on the wording of the manual or the way the user experience works.

Additionally, while the SAE tests used by the EPA are fairly consistent, in the end they use a multiplier that acts as a safety, and manufacturers can negotiate this multiplier. The vast majority of cars stick to a 0.7, so the EPA rating is 70% of what the actual testing got. Tesla often negotiates to ensure their models get the same number over the course of iterative improvements, they sometimes use upwards of 80%. Being able to advertise 10% more range with an identical test number is a big deal, especially on full EVs.

One really can't compare two vehicles based on EPA rated miles, except maybe in very broad strokes.
Totally agree EPA range for electric driving is a joke - Was exactly the same story for the Porsche Taycan for which they gave just under 200 miles while most drivers are way above - see test below.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/reviews/395038/porsche-taycan-road-trip-240-mile-range/amp/

Expect 40-45 miles range for the 45e based on normal driving and average temperature
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      06-15-2020, 07:12 AM   #47
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Hmm... did they finally ditch J1772?

Looks like it but I can’t tell. Hope that’s not the case as my home charger is j1772
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      06-15-2020, 08:47 AM   #48
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How does the 45e track mileage for the ICE for maintenance items? For example if the odometer reaches 10,000 miles, but it's been 6,000 electric and 4,000 ICE, does it know that an oil change isn't needed yet. Does it track mileage for the ICE separately from the overall vehicle?
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      06-15-2020, 09:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is_niice View Post
Hmm... did they finally ditch J1772?

Looks like it but I can’t tell. Hope that’s not the case as my home charger is j1772
My 45e in Belgium has Mennekes type 2. My 40e had the same. I don't think x5, 3-5-7 series had J1772 plugs. Was this for the i3/i8?
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      06-15-2020, 09:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
How does the 45e track mileage for the ICE for maintenance items? For example if the odometer reaches 10,000 miles, but it's been 6,000 electric and 4,000 ICE, does it know that an oil change isn't needed yet. Does it track mileage for the ICE separately from the overall vehicle?
I think is just tracks total mileage. The connected drive app shows that oil service is needed at 25.000 km or nov 2021 (= 2 year interval). It would be better indeed to track total driven on ICE. I have done 6000 km since December and 2/5 all electric.
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      06-15-2020, 09:27 AM   #51
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Like the look of the X5 Hybrid, if it was similar price point of the 30d I would probably opt for it and lose the 7 seat option in the X5.

But around £10k over the 30d means i'm priced out (by my wife).
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      06-15-2020, 11:08 AM   #52
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Yeah, without tax benefits the price difference is hard to justify. But it in city traffic running on electricity is nice and if you can charge at home or in your parking spot it will avoid so many trips to the pump it might close a bit of the gap
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      06-15-2020, 11:56 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
I think is just tracks total mileage. The connected drive app shows that oil service is needed at 25.000 km or nov 2021 (= 2 year interval). It would be better indeed to track total driven on ICE. I have done 6000 km since December and 2/5 all electric.
And what about the brakes? What intervals is it showing for the brake service? On thing I realize that I forgotten about that oil has to be replaced every two years even if the car hasn't done many miles in between. But brake pads - it's a different story probably. They could last a lot longer because of recuperative braking.
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      06-15-2020, 12:05 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
I think is just tracks total mileage. The connected drive app shows that oil service is needed at 25.000 km or nov 2021 (= 2 year interval). It would be better indeed to track total driven on ICE. I have done 6000 km since December and 2/5 all electric.
And what about the brakes? What intervals is it showing for the brake service? On thing I realize that I forgotten about that oil has to be replaced every two years even if the car hasn't done many miles in between. But brake pads - it's a different story probably. They could last a lot longer because of recuperative braking.
Brake fluid is 2022. So 3 years. Breakpads is just how you use them if they are good they don't need to be changed. I think this is an optical inspection. I don't think I use the brakes a lot a try to recuperate as much as possible.
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      06-15-2020, 12:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
My 45e in Belgium has Mennekes type 2. My 40e had the same. I don't think x5, 3-5-7 series had J1772 plugs. Was this for the i3/i8?

All BMW plug in vehicles in the US have been j1772 until now. Maybe they used a photo for an EU spec vehicle.

Even the new 2020 745e is still j1772 spec, so I believe this is just an international model.
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      06-15-2020, 12:51 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Breakpads is just how you use them if they are good they don't need to be changed. I think this is an optical inspection.
Sure. But what is iDrive showing? In an ICE car it says 25000 or 35000 km after you change the brake pads, for example. And obviously, depending on how aggressively one brakes, it could easily turn out to be 10000 or 50000 before they really wear through. So I was just wondering what does PHEV iDrive say about front and rear brakes in the service requirements page.
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      06-15-2020, 12:53 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is_niice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
My 45e in Belgium has Mennekes type 2. My 40e had the same. I don't think x5, 3-5-7 series had J1772 plugs. Was this for the i3/i8?

All BMW plug in vehicles in the US have been j1772 until now. Maybe they used a photo for an EU spec vehicle.

Even the new 2020 745e is still j1772 spec, so I believe this is just an international model.
I think so too. The mennekes 2 has been the default here since introduction of BMW PHEV.
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      06-15-2020, 12:59 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Breakpads is just how you use them if they are good they don't need to be changed. I think this is an optical inspection.
Sure. But what is iDrive showing? In an ICE car it says 25000 or 35000 km after you change the brake pads, for example. And obviously, depending on how aggressively one brakes, it could easily turn out to be 10000 or 50000 before they really wear through. So I was just wondering what does PHEV iDrive say about front and rear brakes in the service requirements page.
The manual says that oil, brake fluid and microfilters have to be changed periodically.

The other services are "Consition Based Services" based on your drivestyle, distance driven, ... it is based on special algorithms and sensors. So I think the brakes have sensors when they start to wear.
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      06-16-2020, 03:54 AM   #59
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but not sure how to easily search it - how much does it cost to charge the car? I'm think primarily at home, but don't have a concept of public charging points either. 10p? £1? I know at home it'll depend on your tariff but even an order of magnitude would be interesting. I'm assuming others have done a comparison.
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      06-16-2020, 04:16 AM   #60
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My electricity unit rate is £0.16034 per KWh, times 24 = £3.85, but I don't think it charges to 24KWh? If it charged to 20KWh it'd cost £3.20 for a full charge.
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      06-16-2020, 04:19 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Whizz UK View Post
I'm sure this has been asked before, but not sure how to easily search it - how much does it cost to charge the car? I'm think primarily at home, but don't have a concept of public charging points either. 10p? £1? I know at home it'll depend on your tariff but even an order of magnitude would be interesting. I'm assuming others have done a comparison.
At home 1 Kwh is around 22 euro cents. A full charge should be around 5 euro. It takes a bit more Kwh than the total battery charge to fully charge.

On a public charger it varies a lot and it is not always clear. They don't show the price per Kwh as for fuel prices.

Some have a startup of a couple of euros. Some count the minutes that the car is connected some only the charged Kwh. Price per Kwh also varies a lot, it may double between different chargers.

You can see this in the app of the public charger. But you have to be carful if you put your car in a nice parkingspot and connect during the night. If it is per Kwh it is ok. If it is per minute you will have a very expensive parking.

For the 40e it was ok anyway, the battery of the 45e is 2,5 times larger so it starts to make a difference.
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      06-16-2020, 04:22 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by SuprSi View Post
My electricity unit rate is £0.16034 per KWh, times 24 = £3.85, but I don't think it charges to 24KWh? If it charged to 20KWh it'd cost £3.20 for a full charge.
20.9 Kwh usable capacity.
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      06-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuprSi View Post
My electricity unit rate is £0.16034 per KWh, times 24 = £3.85, but I don't think it charges to 24KWh? If it charged to 20KWh it'd cost £3.20 for a full charge.
So spending 3.20 gets you about 70 kilometers. About how much would you have to spend on petrol to travel the same distance?
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      06-16-2020, 09:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexG05be View Post
Totally agree EPA range for electric driving is a joke - Was exactly the same story for the Porsche Taycan for which they gave just under 200 miles while most drivers are way above - see test below.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidee...ile-range/amp/

Expect 40-45 miles range for the 45e based on normal driving and average temperature
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see this mentioned yet: It appears that for some reason the US version is getting less of the available battery than the EU version (which gets 21.6 kWh):

Quote:
Battery capacity, gross (net): kWh 24 (17.06)
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/a...tivity-vehicle

For sure, the ratings are a mess, but this means that the US version definitely has less all electric range. For reference, 17.06 kWh would imply a WLTP of 33-43.
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      06-16-2020, 09:53 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobsync View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuprSi View Post
My electricity unit rate is £0.16034 per KWh, times 24 = £3.85, but I don't think it charges to 24KWh? If it charged to 20KWh it'd cost £3.20 for a full charge.
So spending 3.20 gets you about 70 kilometers. About how much would you have to spend on petrol to travel the same distance?
About 10L / 100 km on the ICE

So 7L for 70 km times 1.25 euro = 8,75 euro if you would have done it on ICE only. 10L is for a careful driver, cruisecontrole 120 km/h. If you release all HP it is much higher.
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      06-16-2020, 09:59 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejesse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexG05be View Post
Totally agree EPA range for electric driving is a joke - Was exactly the same story for the Porsche Taycan for which they gave just under 200 miles while most drivers are way above - see test below.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidee...ile-range/amp/

Expect 40-45 miles range for the 45e based on normal driving and average temperature
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see this mentioned yet: It appears that for some reason the US version is getting less of the available battery than the EU version (which gets 21.6 kWh):

Quote:
Battery capacity, gross (net): kWh 24 (17.06)
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/a...tivity-vehicle

For sure, the ratings are a mess, but this means that the US version definitely has less all electric range. For reference, 17.06 kWh would imply a WLTP of 33-43.
That is strange indeed.

Like you mention in Europe it's 24kwh and 20,9 Kwh usable. I do t know where the 3 Kwh are lost. Almost 15% less usable battery
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