[TurtleBoy]

^ Are you sure that mode 1 is regular cruise control and not adaptive? Here it is adaptive cruise but no steering/lane control.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

^ Are you sure that mode 1 is regular cruise control and not adaptive? Here it is adaptive cruise but no steering/lane control.

By long pressing the increase or decrease distance button you can switch to classic cruise controle without distance keeping.

So if you did that and you set it at a certain speed it would drive right through the car in front of you without braking.

Sounds like this is the case here.

But even then it is strange that the cruise controle overrules collision warning.

Or that there is a radar problem. But then the car wouldn't see the car in front either.

Just to be sure. You confirmed that you have all systems I know. I presume there is a radar in the middle of your front bumper?

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

That definitely doesn't sound correct.

So you activate ACC for let's say 70 km/h on a one lane road. A car is driving in the same lane in front of you drives 50 km/h and your car would drive right through it if you didn't intervene? Are you sure you are on ACC and not on normal CC? You can switch to normal CC without distance (see picture). If I am correct it switches back to ACC when you turn of the car.

The manual also says that distance warning is activated when ACC is deactivated (second picture). So it sounds like your ACC function is turned off if you get this message when driving on CC???

According to the manual you should have a message in check controle that ACC is turned off and switched to non distance keeping CC

This sounds reproducible. Take the technician for a drive and show him.

To be clear I only drive in ACC mode with or without lane assist. I bought the car for its self driving capabilities so that I can stop funding our state with traffic tickets :-)

Yes radar is there.

It happens when the speed between my car and the car in front of me is bigger than just 20km/h.

It definitely is the case when a car is stopped at a traffic light in front of me. Again a one lane road, my car is accelerating by itself picks up the car in front of me, red icon on HUD with sound AND keeps on accelerating; no deceleration.

Scenario today: slowly moving car in front of me (around 20km/h), my car was self driving at 75km/h, my car detects car in front of me: red icon on HUD with sound AND my car does not brake nor decelerate.

This is what I’ve been complaining about to dealer. To me that behavior is not normal. If a danger is detected, then the car should take action when in ACC mode. Now it doesn’t do anything and keeps in its state. Dealer told me last week that BMW told them that this is by design!

[Anterialis]

One way to check if emergency breaking will work is the following, it happened to me once:

You drive e.g. 10 seconds behind your friends car, 60-80kmh. Your friend breaks down slowly and exits to the right at a speed of e.g. 3 kmh. You come from behind driving 60-80, and you plan ahead so that you will not have to break for him, as he will exit the road just when you pass. The car will think you have not seen the car and will rear end it. But, again, you plan ahead and see that your friend will exit just before you come. As a safety measure you will swerve to the left to avoid collision. This way, you will head for your friends rear quite fast, but it is easy to turn/swerve left to avoid collision.

Hopefully that was understandable. I had this happening to me once (the car in front of me was driving slowly blinking right to exit. I knew i would not have to break, but it would be close. My car (f30) hit the emergency breaking, worked well. I was just going to swerve slightly left, but the breaking really took me by surprise...

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by ikke123

To be clear I only drive in ACC mode with or without lane assist. I bought the car for its self driving capabilities so that I can stop funding our state with traffic tickets :-)

Yes radar is there.

It happens when the speed between my car and the car in front of me is bigger than just 20km/h.

It definitely is the case when a car is stopped at a traffic light in front of me. Again a one lane road, my car is accelerating by itself picks up the car in front of me, red icon on HUD with sound AND keeps on accelerating; no deceleration.

Scenario today: slowly moving car in front of me (around 20km/h), my car was self driving at 75km/h, my car detects car in front of me: red icon on HUD with sound AND my car does not brake nor decelerate.

This is what I’ve been complaining about to dealer. To me that behavior is not normal. If a danger is detected, then the car should take action when in ACC mode. Now it doesn’t do anything and keeps in its state. Dealer told me last week that BMW told them that this is by design!

No that's not normal. I use it all the time. It follows the car in front of you. If the radar doesn't see a car and then picks one up the car decelerates. Also with cars waiting at a stop light.

Ask the dealer for a demo car and see if you can reproduce the same.

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

No that's not normal. I use it all the time. It follows the car in front of you. If the radar doesn't see a car and then picks one up the car decelerates. Also with cars waiting at a stop light.

Ask the dealer for a demo car and see if you can reproduce the same.

Heavyd can you confirm that your car does it too when the car in front of you is at a slow speed or even standstill.

Dealer told me that BMW can’t detect if a car is stopped. Which I have a hard time believing.

Not sure if a loaner car would make a difference as they state that this is how the car should behave. Which to me is a big no no.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

By long pressing the increase or decrease distance button you can switch to classic cruise controle without distance keeping.

Ok, we don't have that here as far as I know although I'm rarely in that mode. The manual doesn't say anything that I can remember so probably not an option here.

Edit: Checked the manual and the option of turning off the distance control is there.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ikke123

It definitely is the case when a car is stopped at a traffic light in front of me. Again a one lane road, my car is accelerating by itself picks up the car in front of me, red icon on HUD with sound AND keeps on accelerating; no deceleration.

Scenario today: slowly moving car in front of me (around 20km/h), my car was self driving at 75km/h, my car detects car in front of me: red icon on HUD with sound AND my car does not brake nor decelerate.

This is what I’ve been complaining about to dealer. To me that behavior is not normal. If a danger is detected, then the car should take action when in ACC mode. Now it doesn’t do anything and keeps in its state. Dealer told me last week that BMW told them that this is by design!

Scenario one can be normal since it is a stopped vehicle. While it may brake in some instances don't count on it. The second scenario is where you should concentrate your efforts since it is not working as designed.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ikke123

Dealer told me that BMW can’t detect if a car is stopped. Which I have a hard time believing.

In general your dealer is partially correct. As described in the articles posted earlier in this thread, these systems use radar which does detect objects not in motion but the software generally needs to ignore that input so stopped vehicles are not "seen" at higher speeds. At lower speeds though the X5 should brake.

Here are the warnings concerning using ACC in regards to approaching slow and stopped vehicles.

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

In general your dealer is partially correct. As described in the articles posted earlier in this thread, these systems use radar which does detect objects not in motion but the software generally needs to ignore that input so stopped vehicles are not "seen" at higher speeds. At lower speeds though the X5 should brake.

Here are the warnings concerning using ACC in regards to approaching slow and stopped vehicles.

TurtleBoy Sorry but I don’t get. If it doesn’t detect objects not in motion, then how come it detects the car with the red car warning?

The issues are always at speeds below 44mph - is that considered fast?

I understand the disclaimer. But what I don’t understand is how can the ACC still give the car an input to accelerate when an immediate danger is detect (red car in HUD).

I would totally understand it if nothing would show up (= no car being detected).

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ikke123

TurtleBoy Sorry but I don’t get. If it doesn’t detect objects not in motion, then how come it detects the car with the red car warning?

The issues are always at speeds below 44mph - is that considered fast?

I understand the disclaimer. But what I don’t understand is how can the ACC still give the car an input to accelerate when an immediate danger is detect (red car in HUD).

I would totally understand it if nothing would show up (= no car being detected).

It doesn't say it won't detect objects not in motion, it says it may not detect objects not in motion at higher speeds. That seems to be generally defined as over 50mph for this situation so it probably doesn't apply to your situation.

You really need to separate how the system is designed to work with how you see your system working. If it shows the red car then it is detecting that object so that is not the problem. If your car continues to accelerate then obviously that is a problem and it is not operating as designed. My advice would be to not go off in any other direction, just concentrate on that issue with your dealer however it may not be easy to demonstrate the problem.

I'm not sure if you answered this or not, but is the ACC working correctly as far as "normal" driving. In other words, ignoring the times when you come up on stopped or slower cars since the X5 may or may not stop in those situations, does your car keep the desired distance from the vehicle in front of it should it slow down as you are following it.

Just for info, disregarding ACC, once a vehicle is detected that is too close and the red car shows up no braking will occur until a collision is imminent. For example, if you are driving on a highway and decide to move up on the vehicle I front of you in an attempt to get them go faster the red car will appear but it will not do any braking.

The red car is only a pre-warning of a collision. If that is ignored and the circumstances continue and it looks like the collision is going to occur then the red car will start flashing and the vehicle will start beeping. The brakes will be primed and it may also start braking.

[X5 45e]

The acc system is designed to adapt your speed and distance to the car in front of you.

The forward collision warning is designed to give you a warning when an eminent danger occurs. It can initiate an emergency stop. This is not a fluent decrease in speed like following a car in acc and it slows down.

In my experience. When approaching a traffic light with 70 km/h and the cars in front of you are at a stop the speed difference is to big to make the acc stop comfortably. If I see this situation, I gradually set the speed down to 60 50 and sometimes 40 until the system sees the car and then I push set again to put it back at 70.

But as stated the accelerating shouldn't occur.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

The acc system is designed to adapt your speed and distance to the car in front of you.

The forward collision warning is designed to give you a warning when an eminent danger occurs. It can initiate an emergency stop. This is not a fluent decrease in speed like following a car in acc and it slows down.

In my experience. When approaching a traffic light with 70 km/h and the cars in front of you are at a stop the speed difference is to big to make the acc stop comfortably. If I see this situation, I gradually set the speed down to 60 50 and sometimes 40 until the system sees the car and then I push set again to put it back at 70.

But as stated the accelerating shouldn't occur.

I do this the same way. At higher speeds your car will have not enough time. If I'm driving 70 and there is a stop light with cars I switch to 50 or so and everything goes smooth and the car does a full stop when necessary.
Onetime I did this with 70 but that's not really comfortable. It goes hard in the brakes.

[svcauwen]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

I do this the same way. At higher speeds your car will have not enough time. If I'm driving 70 and there is a stop light with cars I switch to 50 or so and everything goes smooth and the car does a full stop when necessary.
Onetime I did this with 70 but that's not really comfortable. It goes hard in the brakes.

I agree, but this is only partially true. Most of us will of course set the distance control on the minimum (one beam) which means later detection and shorter break distance, which gives you a bit of a scary near-crash feeling. If you put it on three everything will go smoothly. However, even on 1 the car drives smoothly with ACC on the highway and keeps distance also when another driver inserts in front of you.

Out of all this discussions we can only conclude that if you drive with the correct ACC settings and your car doesn't auto-break, your car has a problem. If your dealer is blind for this, go see another one.

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by svcauwen

I agree, but this is only partially true. Most of us will of course set the distance control on the minimum (one beam) which means later detection and shorter break distance, which gives you a bit of a scary near-crash feeling. If you put it on three everything will go smoothly. However, even on 1 the car drives smoothly with ACC on the highway and keeps distance also when another driver inserts in front of you.

Out of all this discussions we can only conclude that if you drive with the correct ACC settings and your car doesn't auto-break, your car has a problem. If your dealer is blind for this, go see another one.

In ACC mode the car does autobrake but not in case of imminent danger (red car). From all the posts, it is clear that the car should do this.

As per initial posts I’ve had in those past 9 months several instances whereby I had to do an emergency stop myself to avoid a collision and the car did nothing; meaning initiating itself an emergency braking. As I was within touching distance of the car in front of me, if I’d relied on the car I’d have rear-ended them. Same goes with pedestrian that I touched and for which I profoundly apologized; car did nothing.

All conditions are always met: field of view, obstacle detected (except for pedestrian - never seen that warning going off).

With that I have enough feedback to be confident that something is just not right with my vehicle and will stand ground with BMW.

Second issue: driver attention camera. My understanding now is that this only works in ACC mode. I now know that it works because if I am stuck in a traffic jam it will only resume ACC if I am looking at the road. But outside of that I can take a nap, read emails or do whatever I want - it doesn’t detect anything. I was sold on the idea that it would detect driver attention and that it could even make a safe full stop if I’d be unresponsive.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by ikke123

In ACC mode the car does autobrake but not in case of imminent danger (red car). From all the posts, it is clear that the car should do this.

As per initial posts I’ve had in those past 9 months several instances whereby I had to do an emergency stop myself to avoid a collision and the car did nothing; meaning initiating itself an emergency braking. As I was within touching distance of the car in front of me, if I’d relied on the car I’d have rear-ended them. Same goes with pedestrian that I touched and for which I profoundly apologized; car did nothing.

All conditions are always met: field of view, obstacle detected (except for pedestrian - never seen that warning going off).

With that I have enough feedback to be confident that something is just not right with my vehicle and will stand ground with BMW.

Second issue: driver attention camera. My understanding now is that this only works in ACC mode. I now know that it works because if I am stuck in a traffic jam it will only resume ACC if I am looking at the road. But outside of that I can take a nap, read emails or do whatever I want - it doesn’t detect anything. I was sold on the idea that it would detect driver attention and that it could even make a safe full stop if I’d be unresponsive.

The last scenario is emergency stop assistant: noodstopassistent. If you are unresponsive behind the wheel one of the passengers can pull the brake shortly and the car will brake to stop and change lanes if it has the system. But it is not automatically

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ikke123

With that I have enough feedback to be confident that something is just not right with my vehicle and will stand ground with BMW..

Just playing devil's advocate but the more you describe your issues the more I believe there is nothing wrong with your X5. Hopefully for your peace of mind you are able to come to some resolution/conclusion while working with your dealer. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Just playing devil's advocate but the more you describe your issues the more I believe there is nothing wrong with your X5. Hopefully for your peace of mind you are able to come to some resolution/conclusion while working with your dealer. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

TurtleBoy you might be right and the dealer thinks so too :-)

But I can’t twist my head around the fact that ACC wins over collision warning. I don’t get the rationale of that.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ikke123

TurtleBoy you might be right and the dealer thinks so too :-)

But I can’t twist my head around the fact that ACC wins over collision warning. I don’t get the rationale of that.

ACC definitely does not win over the collision warning. Maybe I misunderstood but one of your recent posts said the ACC was working fine. If that is not the case then you are back to having a problem. I will give my advice once again, concentrate on one issue that is repeatable. If you ACC is not braking for a car in front of you that you are following then it is a problem.

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

ACC definitely does not win over the collision warning. Maybe I misunderstood but one of your recent posts said the ACC was working fine. If that is not the case then you are back to having a problem. I will give my advice once again, concentrate on one issue that is repeatable. If you ACC is not braking for a car in front of you that you are following then it is a problem.

TurtleBoy it does brake with a car in front of me in normal (green) conditions. But when it detects a car being too close (red in HUD) then it does not brake or even decelerate.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by ikke123

TurtleBoy it does brake with a car in front of me in normal (green) conditions. But when it detects a car being too close (red in HUD) then it does not brake or even decelerate.

But when does that happen? Could you describe it exactly.

You are on a normal 1 lane road, following another car you increase your speed with ACC and it doesn't brake?

Or you are approaching a trafic jam a couple of 100 meter ahead and you accelerate?

If you push the gas yourself it will not brake!

[ikke123]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

But when does that happen? Could you describe it exactly.

You are on a normal 1 lane road, following another car you increase your speed with ACC and it doesn't brake?

Or you are approaching a trafic jam a couple of 100 meter ahead and you accelerate?

If you push the gas yourself it will not brake!

Fully agreed that car does not do anything if I have controls.

Issue is when car has control.

Normal road, cruise control with no car in front of me. Cruise control is in acceleration mode -> from zone 50km/70km. Car turns from side road onto my road, is slowly moving. My car detects it as a danger (red car in HUD) but keeps its acceleration going.

I am not touching any pedal (gas or brake). It is self driving.

Does that make it clearer?