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      07-04-2020, 11:57 AM   #1
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Which is better?

RaceChip GTS black or Jb4 for the M50i?
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      07-04-2020, 12:59 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by M50iX5 View Post
RaceChip GTS black or Jb4 for the M50i?
From what I have researched...opinions seem varied. I haven't been able to locate independent dyno and Vbox / Dragy data to show gains.

The Racechip seems to use less taps to plug in vs the JB4 which has additional connections, like to the OBB2 port for current data from the car.

I just traded my X3M for the M50i, so I too want a bit more gain. I want more power for highway acceleration or on the roll. I feel the M50i has plenty of power from a dig to very competitive.

I am sceptical on a piggyback as I had a Burger piggyback for my a F15 50i and actually didn't do anything.

I did see Racechip is offering a $100 off for the next few days.

There is now doubt a flash tune would be the way to go, but give the history of the V8's in BMW'S lineups...I would rather go with something less detectable.
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      07-04-2020, 01:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M50iX5 View Post
RaceChip GTS black or Jb4 for the M50i?
Racechip is TMAP only. Basically a boost controller. JB4 is a full piggy with EWG control and CAN. There are a lot of questions about codes with JB4 with virtually nobody on the forums to ask. Kind of a bummer, but that is where we are.

I am waiting for a flash at home solution. Late 2019 software has locked the OBD2 port creating some issues.
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      07-04-2020, 02:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M50iX5 View Post
RaceChip GTS black or Jb4 for the M50i?
Racechip is TMAP only. Basically a boost controller. JB4 is a full piggy with EWG control and CAN. There are a lot of questions about codes with JB4 with virtually nobody on the forums to ask. Kind of a bummer, but that is where we are.

I am waiting for a flash at home solution. Late 2019 software has locked the OBD2 port creating some issues.
The JB4 is throwing error codes?
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      07-04-2020, 04:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
The JB4 is throwing error codes?
As TMAP only, I doubt it would ever throw a code. As EWGR, there is no answer since there aren’t any users on the forum that I am aware of. There are some in the M550i crowd.
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      07-04-2020, 05:40 PM   #6
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I have used Jb4s on my last 2 BMWs, and from the moment the government changed the regulations on tuning companies ability to defeat CELs (roughly 2017 I think?)..... my car threw codes almost daily, although it "performed" quite well.

When I bought the M50i, I researched the Jb4 forums..... and they are absolutely PLAGUED with customers that were having problems. I then spoke directly with the "owner" (I guess??).... who assured me it was only on "older" Model V8 BMWs..... but "we've had much better results with the new models".

Except none of those results were posted, and no testimonials from customers were left....and they wanted to sell me a "Beta" version with an "estimated" 50hp increase.

Bad vibes...... everywhere. I walked away.

Then I started researching Racechip..... and there's a thread here somewhere about their "engine warrantee"..... but after reading the fine print, it only applies if basically you never drive the car, under any circumstances.

Once again.... bad vibes. Maybe it's a great product? But that shady fine print turned me off big time. Why would you even make an "engine warrantee" claim, knowing full well you'd never have to honor it?

I contacted my old friends at Cobb tuning, from way back in my Subaru days (2006-2012).... but they stopped making an accessport for BMWs back in 2015 or 2016 if I recall. The 2015 335i was the last model they supported.

Then..... I finally searched for someone to do it right.... remap/flash... on a dyno. While it cost considerably more, I'm incredibly glad I went that route.

Just my experience.... just my personal opinions..... but I wouldn't recommend any piggyback unit at this point.... at least not for a couple years, once they have this platform figured out, because based on what I've read.... none of them do.

Last edited by Ninefourteener; 07-04-2020 at 05:45 PM..
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      07-04-2020, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
I have used Jb4s on my last 2 BMWs, and from the moment the government changed the regulations on tuning companies ability to defeat CELs (roughly 2017 I think?)..... my car threw codes almost daily, although it "performed" quite well.

When I bought the M50i, I researched the Jb4 forums..... and they are absolutely PLAGUED with customers that were having problems. I then spoke directly with the "owner" (I guess??).... who assured me it was only on "older" Model V8 BMWs..... but "we've had much better results with the new models".

Except none of those results were posted, and no testimonials from customers were left....and they wanted to sell me a "Beta" version with an "estimated" 50hp increase.

Bad vibes...... everywhere. I walked away.

Then I started researching Racechip..... and there's a thread here somewhere about their "engine warrantee"..... but after reading the fine print, it only applies if basically you never drive the car, under any circumstances.

Once again.... bad vibes. Maybe it's a great product? But that shady fine print turned me off big time. Why would you even make an "engine warrantee" claim, knowing full well you'd never have to honor it?

I contacted my old friends at Cobb tuning, from way back in my Subaru days (2006-2012).... but they stopped making an accessport for BMWs back in 2015 or 2016 if I recall. The 2015 335i was the last model they supported.

Then..... I finally searched for someone to do it right.... remap/flash... on a dyno. While it cost considerably more, I'm incredibly glad I went that route.

Just my experience.... just my personal opinions..... but I wouldn't recommend any piggyback unit at this point.... at least not for a couple years, once they have this platform figured out, because based on what I've read.... none of them do.
Remember, with a flash it is guaranteed your warranty is toast. You will have tripped torque targets on your drivetrain and BMW will know. It is not an “if” anymore. That said, the Moss Magnuson act protects you in the US from the dealer voiding warranty unless they prove the tune was responsible for the failure.

Some prefer piggy because it remains one of the few ways to retain warranty if you remove before going to the dealer because torque targets won’t be tripped. However, I am with you 914 and I agree a flash is a far better solution and will that route as well. I have used every piggy under the sun. I am just not sure they have a good grasp on the N63B or R yet.

Last edited by 130FeetDeep; 07-04-2020 at 08:11 PM..
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      07-04-2020, 09:59 PM   #8
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Which is better?

Thank you for your insight. I saw your posted conversation with Terry regarding the JB4. His follow up was not reassuring.

I also saw your posts about your tune, very jealous!

I too read through both warranties for the Racechip. After 48k miles, I would go with a flash tune as I'm on my own after 50k anyway. Their requirements are not as bad as Noelle performance.

I wonder if the warranty is more of a placebo effect. Maybe the piggyback isn't really pushing the limits, so little risk of a claim. If anyone gets the Racechip, I wouldn't post any clips of drag racing or racing on any social media under your real name.
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      07-05-2020, 02:12 AM   #9
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I hear what you are both saying.... and yes, there's a risk associated with any aftermarket upgrades. Always has been. I used to stress about it..... and then I realized that of the (roughly) 35 "brand new off the dealership floor" cars I've purchased over the years, I cannot remember a single time I've ever had some suffer from catastrophic engine failure within it's initial warrantee period..... ever.

Plenty of sensors, electronic bits, plastic bits, etc....but never anything "catastrophic".

Contrary to what it may seem like, I actually drive quite "gentle". I don't race or abuse it, and I can count on one hand how many times I've used launch control. I also do all my own maintenance, far more often than required, with far superior products than what BMW uses.

I think driver habits contribute more toward engine failures than anything else. The car could be bone stock, but if you're beating the crap out of it every day.... it's going to break.

If I were "worried" about anything on my car.... it would be the air conditioning, or the air suspension. Not the engine/transmission. There's so many fail-safes built in to protect against knock, lean conditions, over-rev, etc.... the tune I have is within all the factory parameters. Hell, it even still passes emissions.

And.... if I'm wrong? If a piston flies through the hood of the car tomorrow?? Well.... lesson learned I guess. I seriously doubt it though. For me, it was a risk I weighed, and was willing to take.
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      07-05-2020, 04:11 PM   #10
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914, I am with you. I think we have an excellent engine and power train here. I am not overly concerned.
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      07-05-2020, 04:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Thank you for your insight. I saw your posted conversation with Terry regarding the JB4. His follow up was not reassuring.

I also saw your posts about your tune, very jealous!

I too read through both warranties for the Racechip. After 48k miles, I would go with a flash tune as I'm on my own after 50k anyway. Their requirements are not as bad as Noelle performance.

I wonder if the warranty is more of a placebo effect. Maybe the piggyback isn't really pushing the limits, so little risk of a claim. If anyone gets the Racechip, I wouldn't post any clips of drag racing or racing on any social media under your real name.
Piggies definitely will push the envelope and maybe arguably more. Guys on the M550i are stacking JB on top of their flash tune to get more power.
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      07-06-2020, 01:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Piggies definitely will push the envelope and maybe arguably more. Guys on the M550i are stacking JB on top of their flash tune to get more power.
I'm no tuning expert by any means.... not even close.

But.... correct me if I'm wrong..... if your car is flash tuned to produce as much power as possible, by carefully calculating boost, fuel pressure, AFRs, etc.... all within the factory equipment's capability..... wouldn't "stacking" additional tuning devices be (at best) pointless... or (at worst) highly dangerous?
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      07-06-2020, 08:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
I'm no tuning expert by any means.... not even close.

But.... correct me if I'm wrong..... if your car is flash tuned to produce as much power as possible, by carefully calculating boost, fuel pressure, AFRs, etc.... all within the factory equipment's capability..... wouldn't "stacking" additional tuning devices be (at best) pointless... or (at worst) highly dangerous?
Not at all. Many people use piggies with a back end flash. That resets to timing to where it needs to be so it gives more degrees of advance or retard to protect. It can also give you additional maps on the fly for e85 or e30 or MS109.
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      07-06-2020, 08:29 AM   #14
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So - I have a long, long history of tunes dating all the way back to my 2005 Saab 9-3 Viggen. I have had both flash, piggy, and ECU swap.

Recently - on my 2016 Audi S6 I did the ECU flash and TCU flash taking it from 450 to 600+ hp. I don't drive the car super hard, and never really launch it as that is just not my thing. After the flash, I absolutely could not EVER take it to the dealer for ANY work for fear of Td1 flag by Audi. They are super strict. I learned my lesson with that car - a 98k car that had to be serviced by an outside Audi shop for everything, including oil changes.

With my 2018 X5 - I used Racechip Black and the XLR throttle. It made night and day diff on the 35i. I didn't realize how much until i had it removed and drove the car home to trade it for my new X5. It was flawless in its execution, even though i only had it on about 8 months. I plan to reinstall it in my new X5.

On a new car I would hesitate to ecu flash - unless you paid cash for the car. My worry is that BMW may change their current reasonably lenient policy on tuning like Audi did. Audi got super strict on Td1 right after the Dieselgate scandal and they lost a ton of money. Considering auto sales are in the tank, I am a tad worried BMW might start additional cost cutting like flagging cars to avoid warranty repairs.
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Last edited by parkstr8; 07-06-2020 at 03:07 PM..
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      07-06-2020, 11:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkstr8 View Post
So - I have a long, long history of tunes dating all the way back to my 2005 Saab 9-3 Viggen. I have had both flash, piggy, and ECU swap.

Recently - on my 2016 Audi S6 I did the ECU flash and TCU flash taking it from 450 to 600+ hp. I don't drive the car super hard, and never really launch it as that is just not my thing. After the flash, I absolutely could not EVER take it to the dealer for ANY work for fear of Td1 flag by Audi. They are super strict. I learned my lesson with that car - a 98k car that had to be serviced by an outside Audi for everything, including oil changes.

With my 2018 X5 - I used Racechip Black and the XLR throttle. It made night and day diff on the 35i. I didnt realize how much until i had it removed and drove the car home to trade it for my new X5. It was flawless in its execution, even though i only had it on about 8 months. I plan to reinstall it in my new X5.

On a new car I would hesitate to ecu flash - unless you paid cash for the car. My worry is that BMW may change their current reasonably lenient policy on tuning like Audi did. Audi got super strict on Td1 right after the Dieselgate scandal and they lost a ton of money. Considering auto sales are in the tank, I am a tad worried BMW might start additional cost cutting like flagging cars to avoid warranty repairs.
Racechip is TMAP only. Honestly, I wouldn’t waste my money on a boost controller. If we had more info on JB4, I would be much more interested as a lot of us would. However, I don’t want to be the first. I have been the beta a lot of times in the past and just am over it.

Flashes will trip torque targets in your drivetrain. You would need to accept that. Don’t let a flash tuner tell you otherwise. I also feel we have a strong engine and drivetrain and I am not overly concerned.
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