[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Some will say yes and others will say no. Just like anything else related to the suspension it is all a matter of one's perception. I have air suspension on my 40i and have never been bothered with body roll or had anyone notice/comment on it. Does it handle like my M340i? Of course not but I don't drive it the same either.

I find it interesting where different people place their limits of "too big to be sporty". For someone like me coming from a series of 2 seat sports cars, the idea of a sport sedan is silly. I see sedans like less practical SUV alternatives. 4 seat coupes aren't much better. Other people have no issue seeing a small sedan as a legitimate sports car, or a large sedan like the 5 series.

All that said, the M340i seems like a great sedan that doesn't get talked about a lot. M550i got seemingly endless.praise, just like X5 M50i. X3 M40i gets crazy hyped too. Never hear anyone talk about M340i, and on paper it should be an awesome ride. I don't even think it was burdened with the ugly face of the M4?

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I find it interesting where different people place their limits of "too big to be sporty". For someone like me coming from a series of 2 seat sports cars, the idea of a sport sedan is silly. I see sedans like less practical SUV alternatives. 4 seat coupes aren't much better. Other people have no issue seeing a small sedan as a legitimate sports car, or a large sedan like the 5 series.

All that said, the M340i seems like a great sedan that doesn't get talked about a lot. M550i got seemingly endless.praise, just like X5 M50i. X3 M40i gets crazy hyped too. Never hear anyone talk about M340i, and on paper it should be an awesome ride. I don't even think it was burdened with the ugly face of the M4?

M340i and M550i are both great cars indeed. They hit the sweet spot just like the M60i does.

[matowi]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

So does the 50e have a lot of body roll compared to the m adaptive suspension in the 40i?

It’s a matter of personal sensitivity to certain sensations, as well as personal perceptions and preferences

I found all air-suspended X5s I’ve driven (admittedly test-driven, as I haven’t yet owned one) to be bouncy or floaty, however you want to call it. They gave me the feeling of leaning too much in corners (I generally drive too fast, but that’s another matter), and rocking back / forth when accelerating or stopping

A friend’s M50i on 22” wheels and with the adaptive m professional suspension was a revelation by comparison. It behaved much like a sports sedan (a lowered 5 series of my brother served as a reference point). It was the first ride in an SUV in my life during which I didn’t suffer from sea sickness 😅

That single drive gave me the courage to order my first ever SUV (until now I only had sedans, hatchbacks or wagons). I’m less concerned about the rolling and swaying of the car, knowing the hardware in the underbody will do a lot of work to minimize them

In fact, the X5 50i in question was as good in quick corners as my previous 7 series which had the executive drive option (air suspension with active anti-roll bars). Moreover, in terms of comfort I actually preferred the steel sprung X5, as it felt more natural to me than the air suspension, and offered a level of comfort at least on par with my previous car (2021 7 series on air suspension with 21” wheels with OEM performance tires)

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by matowi

It’s a matter of personal sensitivity to certain sensations, as well as personal perceptions and preferences

I found all air-suspended X5s I’ve driven (admittedly test-driven, as I haven’t yet owned one) to be bouncy or floaty, however you want to call it. They gave me the feeling of leaning too much in corners (I generally drive too fast, but that’s another matter), and rocking back / forth when accelerating or stopping

A friend’s M50i on 22” wheels and with the adaptive m professional suspension was a revelation by comparison. It behaved much like a sports sedan (a lowered 5 series of my brother served as a reference point). It was the first ride in an SUV in my life during which I didn’t suffer from sea sickness 😅

That single drive gave me the courage to order my first ever SUV (until now I only had sedans, hatchbacks or wagons). I’m less concerned about the rolling and swaying of the car, knowing the hardware in the underbody will do a lot of work to minimize them

In fact, the X5 50i in question was as good in quick corners as my previous 7 series which had the executive drive option (air suspension with active anti-roll bars). Moreover, in terms of comfort I actually preferred the steel sprung X5, as it felt more natural to me than the air suspension, and offered a level of comfort at least on par with my previous car (2021 7 series on air suspension with 21” wheels with OEM performance tires)

Thank you for this

[swainbmw]

When I bought my 40l in 2022 debated on the 40e The added cost in the low mileage for me, did not equate in the price difference, nor did I think I would be saving anything combining the cost of electric and maybe the problematic problems that could arise from the technology so I chose to stay with a 40 I the technology was too gimmicky for me. Sometimes Les is best. And now the new revised version of that car 50 E seems to be very problematic. The car needs time to be sorted out maybe by the time that they change the body style they’ll have all the bugs worked out but I certainly would not buy one at this point, no one should buy a car that has to live in the garage every month or for months on time and that seems to be the case with the new 50e

[jad03060]

The 45e was introduced to the world as a 2019 MY, but the first delivery in the USA was the 2021 MY, so BMW had a few years to work the kinks out...not counting the 40e that was available prior to that. BMW is on about the (I think) 5th version of their EV/PHEVs, so they are not new to it.

Keep in mind that a forum tends to attract people that are either reporting problems, or fans of the products, so trying to get a feel for overall reliability from reading that is kind of skewed. Then, you have maybe a bigger group that primarily just read to help them learn.

[eluded]

Mine always lives in a garage but it has a second home sitting outside at the BMW Service Department.

Originally Posted by swainbmw

..... no one should buy a car that has to live in the garage every month or for months on time and that seems to be the case with the new 50e

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

All that said, the M340i seems like a great sedan that doesn't get talked about a lot.

I think cars like the 3-series are "too small" for the US. The M340i is probably the most popular version of all "M Performance" models in Germany and revered for it's B58 that has A TON of potential, even for a small budget. The B58 in general is the best bang-for-your-buck engine you could get if you plan to modify it, even if it's just software. (The B58TU1 can do >500hp easily on Stage 1 and even the original B58 only needs the fuel pump of the TU for those figures.) The Supra community was at first appalled by the thought of a Supra being powered by a BMW engine but by now you can find tons of people saying the B58 is the modern 2JZ. It can make serious power even on stock internals while being very reliable and comparatively cheap. It's like an N54 but with all the weaknesses worked out.

Originally Posted by matowi

In fact, the X5 50i in question was as good in quick corners as my previous 7 series which had the executive drive option (air suspension with active anti-roll bars).

I can only compare the 50e to my 750Ld F02 with active anti-roll bars and have to say that I can barely tell a difference in corners. Maybe it's leaning SLIGHTLY more but I've also hardly driven either car at its tire-screetching limit as it doesn't feel nice with either car. They are both way too big, clunky and heavy for it to be fun. The X5 feels a tad more floaty maybe but not by much - I think I can also tell the higher center of mass. To me the X5 is a more practical 7-series with a higher center of mass.

The X5 does feel more comfortable on bad roads though than the 7-series, even with the 22" compared to the 21" on the 7.

Originally Posted by jad03060

Keep in mind that a forum tends to attract people that are either reporting problems, or fans of the products, so trying to get a feel for overall reliability from reading that is kind of skewed. Then, you have maybe a bigger group that primarily just read to help them learn.

The 50e is by far the most sold G05 LCI version in Germany and so far there's been one case on the German forum of an LCI breaking down due to PHEV related issues. While I could imagine that there's more issues with the 50e than with the 40i I don't feel like the 50e has significantly more issues than similar cars. It's always hard to tell from forums where people tend to come when they have issues. While mine has shown an error message that went away immediately 2 weeks ago it has been absolutely trouble-free since we got it.

[cobramite]

^^^^^Yes, the B58 and S58 I6s are outstanding motors for sure, no question.
the M340i and X3 M40i are great performers sporting the B58 that seems to really respond well to RC/JB4 enhancements for more.
The S58 in the M3/M4 is a mad man sub 3 second car that has been reported to hit the high tens in factory config. with handling to match.
These 6 cylinder motors are for real.

[eelnoraa]

I think in US, SUV is the culture. People will choose X3 over 3 series, x5 over 5 series, by large margin even there is no need for the size. The annual sale number reflect this behavior. It has nothing to do with 3er or 5er aren't good cars. I personally prefer sedan/coupe over SUV. I even prefer minivan over SUV, by yet, I have a SUV at home.

As for 340, it is truely a great car. It is just buyers are small portion amongst 3 series byers. I think the biggest volume is 330. As for size, I actually think 3 series size is not small at all. I have e39 5 series. Current 3 series is larger than that. I think in general, cars are growing, both in dimension and weight over the years. Heck, I think Americans are getting bigger over the years too, so need bigger accomondations.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think in US, SUV is the culture. People will choose X3 over 3 series, x5 over 5 series, by large margin even there is no need for the size. The annual sale number reflect this behavior. It has nothing to do with 3er or 5er aren't good cars. I personally prefer sedan/coupe over SUV. I even prefer minivan over SUV, by yet, I have a SUV at home.

As for 340, it is truely a great car. It is just buyers are small portion amongst 3 series byers. I think the biggest volume is 330. As for size, I actually think 3 series size is not small at all. I have e39 5 series. Current 3 series is larger than that. I think in general, cars are growing, both in dimension and weight over the years. Heck, I think Americans are getting bigger over the years too, so need bigger accomondations.

No question about it, SUVs are what people buy now in sig. volume then trucks followed by cars and they are losing market share rapidly.
The only car that is on my radar screen is a C8 Eray.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by cobramite

No question about it, SUVs are what people buy now in sig. volume then trucks followed by cars and they are losing market share rapidly.
The only car that is on my radar screen is a C8 Eray.

I think number says a bit different. It is Trunk > SUV > Car. Trucks like F150 by far out sold everything else in 2022.

Quick digging a bit, top selling Truck for 2022
Ford F series: 653,957 (damn)
Chevrolet Silverado: 520,936
Ram: 468,344
GMC Sierra: 241.521
Toyota Tundra: 104,246

Top non truck vehicle: Toyota Rav4: 399,941
Top passenger car: Toyota Camry: 295,201

I kind of think the very high volume of truck sold is due to work/fleet related.

Within BMW
Top seller - X5: 82,372. People are rick in 2022. X5 is the most common BMW sold.
X3: 65,799
3er+4er: 30,400 + 36,954. yes 4er sold better
5er: 20,859

In a few months, we will see 2023 numbers.

[eelnoraa]

Ok, I found a few more interesting number for 3rd quarter and year to 3rd quarter number for X3 and X5

X3 3rd quarter: 14,669. Y2Y change: -20.5%
X3 year to 3rd quarter end: 42,414. Y2Y change: -17%

X5 3rd quarter: 15,986. Y2Y change: -24.2%
X5 year to 3rd quarter end: 51,876. Y2Y change: -8.4%

X5 sell more than GLE up to 3rd quarter end. GLE number is 43,xxx

It seems as interest rate increase, or maybe job market tightening, X5 sales number drop significantly in 3rd quarter? But then what happen to X3??

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think number says a bit different. It is Trunk > SUV > Car. Trucks like F150 by far out sold everything else in 2022.

Quick digging a bit, top selling Truck for 2022
Ford F series: 653,957 (damn)
Chevrolet Silverado: 520,936
Ram: 468,344
GMC Sierra: 241.521
Toyota Tundra: 104,246

Top non truck vehicle: Toyota Rav4: 399,941
Top passenger car: Toyota Camry: 295,201

I kind of think the very high volume of truck sold is due to work/fleet related.

Within BMW
Top seller - X5: 82,372. People are rick in 2022. X5 is the most common BMW sold.
X3: 65,799
3er+4er: 30,400 + 36,954. yes 4er sold better
5er: 20,859

In a few months, we will see 2023 numbers.

You are correct, we are not truck people so I don't think in those terms but the numbers on 150s etc. are stagerring for sure. Good call.
I did see yesterday where Ford is slashing their EV pick up production by a whopping 50%. Not a good sign for the EV only movement.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Ok, I found a few more interesting number for 3rd quarter and year to 3rd quarter number for X3 and X5

X3 3rd quarter: 14,669. Y2Y change: -20.5%
X3 year to 3rd quarter end: 42,414. Y2Y change: -17%

X5 3rd quarter: 15,986. Y2Y change: -24.2%
X5 year to 3rd quarter end: 51,876. Y2Y change: -8.4%

X5 sell more than GLE up to 3rd quarter end. GLE number is 43,xxx

It seems as interest rate increase, or maybe job market tightening, X5 sales number drop significantly in 3rd quarter? But then what happen to X3??

Interest rates are sky high right now, I'm not surprised that sales are suffering. I think all the "suckers" that had to have a new car during the pandemic are used up, and interest rates are keeping a lot of people out, as well as shady dealer practices. It's not just BMW sales dropping, it's industry wide. The industry is also largely not incentivizing sales, desperate to keep the crazy margins they had during COVID.

With the fed appearing set to lower interest rates just in time for the election, there's a chance the auto industry can maintain the status quo. I think they'll have a hard time.thlugh, because I think they've just run out of buyers willing to pay the crazy prices they're asking now, even if interest rates ease up a little

[jad03060]

Historically, in recent past, yes, the interest rates are high, but my first mortgage was at 11% many years ago. I was able to refinance it later when things cooled off. It's all relative.

Too many people chasing too few products tends to do that. It took a while to recover from the pandemic, so there was a lot of pent up demands as people got jobs back again and supply made some things hard to get, so prices rose.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Historically, in recent past, yes, the interest rates are high, but my first mortgage was at 11% many years ago. I was able to refinance it later when things cooled off. It's all relative.

Too many people chasing too few products tends to do that. It took a while to recover from the pandemic, so there was a lot of pent up demands as people got jobs back again and supply made some things hard to get, so prices rose.

Lets not forget the the 40 year high inflation we have indured recently.
Even the folks with German high brand budgets are feeling it big time. The dramatic rise in the cost of basic needs such as food, utilities, medical care, housing, etc. can easily cancel a new BMW purchase.
Our expenditures for basics are up nearly 30% from a few years ago. This has to be extremely difficult for some families.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Lets not forget the the 40 year high inflation we have indured recently.
Even the folks with German high brand budgets are feeling it big time. The dramatic rise in the cost of basic needs such as food, utilities, medical care, housing, etc. can easily cancel a new BMW purchase.
Our expenditures for basics are up nearly 30% from a few years ago. This has to be extremely difficult for some families.

My wife was just complaining about our power bill a few weeks ago. It was 25% more money than the same month last year. The really sucky part was we used 20% less energy because we upgraded to high end windows too.

The people I feel bad for are those who are renters. Their costs just keep going up, and will never go down. Our mortgage at least stays the same.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

My wife was just complaining about our power bill a few weeks ago. It was 25% more money than the same month last year. The really sucky part was we used 20% less energy because we upgraded to high end windows too.

The people I feel bad for are those who are renters. Their costs just keep going up, and will never go down. Our mortgage at least stays the same.

It is definetly no pretty out there for many people. How would you like to be trying to buy your first home in this mess.

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Lets not forget the the 40 year high inflation we have indured recently.
Even the folks with German high brand budgets are feeling it big time. The dramatic rise in the cost of basic needs such as food, utilities, medical care, housing, etc. can easily cancel a new BMW purchase.
Our expenditures for basics are up nearly 30% from a few years ago. This has to be extremely difficult for some families.

Our erie auto insurance increased 21% this year. That's a crazy increase for one year.

[jad03060]

If you live say in some parts of Florida, you may not be able to get home insurance, regardless of how much you're able or willing to pay...as a result, you might not be able to get a mortgage, either as that can be a condition of the contract.

This is way off topic, so best cut off.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by cobramite

It is definetly no pretty out there for many people. How would you like to be trying to buy your first home in this mess.

I have several friends at work in that position. We have had a prettyajor housing price boom that keeps growing too.

I expect this to continue pretty much indefinitely. My wife and I have discussed buying a rental property so that our kids could have that so they won't be starting out at 0. It's really unfortunate, some of my friends in their early to mid 30s, professionals with good careers, they just can't get into something that'd be a starter home, let alone something that they could have a family in.

We were lucky that I bought my first home in my mid 20s after college, and we moved aggressively to buy our current home when we relocated to FL in 2020. We nearly made the decision to rent for a year to "wait out the market", we would be in the same kind of position had we done that, watching starter homes double or more in price.