[tranquility]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Sprinklers protect the structure but not the contents. I don’t know if they make it easier for people to exit a building/house on fire or make it harder (steam in the air, water pouring down, vs suppression of the fire). But I’ve not seen an insurance company on the personal side argue for them, it is always the property insurers that want them, in commercial/business settings.

I’ve thought about putting them in my houses over the years (retrofit is insanely expensive and ugly), and wondered if a dry system (freeze protection) is better than wet, etc. As someone commented above, the junk in the pipe is nasty so that plus all the water will ruin every piece of furniture, drywall, art, paper, electronics, etc. Contents will not survive a sprinkler activation, so it damn well better be for a fire and not accidental. Of course contents won’t survive a fire/smoke much better, if at all.

So I guess it comes down to the risk of fire vs the risk of accidental sprinkler activation, with cost being an obvious negative and life-saving potentially a positive (but I’m not really smart on that issue).

In some areas I would consider having a swimming pool and sprinklers on the roof ridge, etc that would pump from the pool reservoir for wildfire suppression, but I’m not sure I’d do interior sprinkling.

Current house is two stories of cinder block construction on a slab with Spanish tile roof, so minimal risk of fire from exterior. Interior floors are tile, with wood joists/sub flooring and firring for drywall (which is fire resistant). So our fire risk is the wood parts of the structure (electrical cause I suppose), and contents (furniture etc). Seems we have a very low fire risk. So sprinklers here are a no, for me.

Ya, I don't think I'd ever consider retrofitting esp for a detached house - I trust myself not to do anything stupid (if it's a freak accident setting off a fire, so be it), it's more like if I had to choose between 2 condos both being identical but one w and one w/o, I may go w/o.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Sprinklers protect the structure but not the contents. I don’t know if they make it easier for people to exit a building/house on fire or make it harder (steam in the air, water pouring down, vs suppression of the fire). But I’ve not seen an insurance company on the personal side argue for them, it is always the property insurers that want them, in commercial/business settings.

I’ve thought about putting them in my houses over the years (retrofit is insanely expensive and ugly), and wondered if a dry system (freeze protection) is better than wet, etc. As someone commented above, the junk in the pipe is nasty so that plus all the water will ruin every piece of furniture, drywall, art, paper, electronics, etc. Contents will not survive a sprinkler activation, so it damn well better be for a fire and not accidental. Of course contents won’t survive a fire/smoke much better, if at all.

So I guess it comes down to the risk of fire vs the risk of accidental sprinkler activation, with cost being an obvious negative and life-saving potentially a positive (but I’m not really smart on that issue).

In some areas I would consider having a swimming pool and sprinklers on the roof ridge, etc that would pump from the pool reservoir for wildfire suppression, but I’m not sure I’d do interior sprinkling.

Current house is two stories of cinder block construction on a slab with Spanish tile roof, so minimal risk of fire from exterior. Interior floors are tile, with wood joists/sub flooring and firring for drywall (which is fire resistant). So our fire risk is the wood parts of the structure (electrical cause I suppose), and contents (furniture etc). Seems we have a very low fire risk. So sprinklers here are a no, for me.

Probably not worth it for retrofit, but definitely worth it for new construction (and often required by local codes).

Dry systems are far more prone to leaks due to the moist air in the piping promoting corrosion. Also more stuff to go wrong with more complex valves.

Contents are the hazard as much as structure (where wood frame) and can cause the room to flash over pretty quickly. Just look at videos of a Christmas tree fire in a sprinklered room vs non sprinklered. Without sprinklers the fire can spread very quickly and the room can flash over before you're able to react to the smoke alarm. Big trouble if that happens while you're asleep, even if you're a few rooms away.

I'm a fire protection engineer so I work with this stuff daily. I wouldn't recommend retrofitting sprinklers in many existing buildings outside of high-rises, but it's definitely better to have them in new construction residential homes. There are very few deaths due to fire in sprinklered buildings. Chance of leakage is very low, though it does happen. But even without sprinklers there's plenty of other water piping that can leak just the same. Would you not have a washing machine because if it leaks it could flood your house?

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

For a garage, wouldn’t a non-water system be better because of the fuels/oils? Not rhetorical, I really don’t know.

Our Garage Mahal will be an all-steel barndominium, which is a commercial steel building with living and garage space inside. Not really a workshop, but rather an open-plan house with a few show cars parked in the living room.....

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

For a garage, wouldn’t a non-water system be better because of the fuels/oils? Not rhetorical, I really don’t know.

Not really. The alternatives such as foam-water suppression are too expensive and are only seen where you have large quantities of flammable/combustible liquids, much more than a typical garage. Pretty much all motor vehicle repair garages get wet sprinklers when a suppression system is required. Motor oil isn't that hazardous since it has a pretty high flash point

[540iSUP]

All the homes in my area have them, it is now the law. I have not had any problems, but my neighbors sprinklers went off when they were out of town for the week. Their home flooded, but insurance covered it. The sprinkler system had some kind of failure and the company had to check all the homes in the area and replace any faulty sprinklers.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

So I wont hold my oven up to my sprinkler heads. Thanks for that incredibly useful advice.

You're quite welcome. What does heat do? It rises. You're welcome for that science fact as well.

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

That's why you do regular maintenance. Its really not that hard. My valves and checks are in the garage and the system can be flushed if you wanted, but they have never recommended it. My house is fairly new and its municipal water in an anaerobic environment so corrosion and growth is rare.

Since we are being literal with our replies. Yep, regular maintenance on a building that is 30 years old, that I have worked at for 6 years. Why didn't I come here, before I worked here, and perform the maintenance then.

[540iSUP]

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there like a piece of wax that has to melt before the sprinkler turns on?

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by 540iSUP

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there like a piece of wax that has to melt before the sprinkler turns on?

Glycerin-based liquid inside a glass bulb. When heated between 135° - 155° the liquid expands, breaks the glass and the head activates.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

You're quite welcome. What does heat do? It rises. You're welcome for that science fact as well.

You raise an interesting pt and whenever I bake the instructions want it to preheat to much higher than 150F, being 350F+++. Still, I would assume that the sprinkler designers know about ovens and where not to place the sprinklers to avoid this obvious potential accident, no?

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by tranquility

You raise an interesting pt and whenever I bake the instructions want it to preheat to much higher than 150F, being 350F+++. Still, I would assume that the sprinkler designers know about ovens and where not to place the sprinklers to avoid this obvious potential accident, no?

Baking temperatures were exactly my point, and since heat rises and since most everything baked is at a temperature of 350°+; this is what I was getting at. Perhaps Ryan can show us the ergonomically correct method of holding his stove above his head later.

Manufacturers and installers are aware of these accidental activations. Heads located within proximity of heat sources are required to have high-temperature rated sprinkler heads in those areas. Definitely something worth looking into if buying a home with a pre-installed sprinkler system. Other heat sources such as space heaters and skylights, will also trigger a system.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Probably not worth it for retrofit, but definitely worth it for new construction (and often required by local codes).

Dry systems are far more prone to leaks due to the moist air in the piping promoting corrosion. Also more stuff to go wrong with more complex valves.

Contents are the hazard as much as structure (where wood frame) and can cause the room to flash over pretty quickly. Just look at videos of a Christmas tree fire in a sprinklered room vs non sprinklered. Without sprinklers the fire can spread very quickly and the room can flash over before you're able to react to the smoke alarm. Big trouble if that happens while you're asleep, even if you're a few rooms away.

I'm a fire protection engineer so I work with this stuff daily. I wouldn't recommend retrofitting sprinklers in many existing buildings outside of high-rises, but it's definitely better to have them in new construction residential homes. There are very few deaths due to fire in sprinklered buildings. Chance of leakage is very low, though it does happen. But even without sprinklers there's plenty of other water piping that can leak just the same. Would you not have a washing machine because if it leaks it could flood your house?

Thanks for this reply, well said and obviously well informed.

I have had a house flood due to a shower burst (upstairs on a 3-level house) and an under-sink filter fail (top floor of a two story house). In both cases the damage was very high and as bad as a fire. I’ve learned to take several water protection steps, including turning it off at the main when we are away for long. And I am pretty careful about fire hazards (Christmas trees, frayed cords, excessive extension cord loads, etc). My mom’s house burned because of a nephew playing with a lit candle, fire is nothing to trifle with!

If sprinklers help people escape a fire, then it makes sense to me to build them in when new. It certainly makes sense in high density residential buildings (apartments, condos, very close houses) because it will help prevent spread of fire and thus help save lives and adjacent property.

[spazzyfry123]

Multi-family I’ve seen it many times over (if not every time). I can’t say that I’ve ever seen a single family residence with a fire suppression system.

Coincidentally my wife and I went for a walk around the neighborhood with the little one this afternoon. I don’t think I had ever noticed it until now (I bike, walk, etc daily through here), but my closest hydrant has to be a few hundred yards away and I was truly confused. Thankfully I’ve never had to need one, but it was unnerving. Home is built in 2016 in Florida.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

You're quite welcome. What does heat do? It rises. You're welcome for that science fact as well.

LOL ok. I've lived in a house for over a decade using my oven about 12 feet from one with no issue. But I'm sure some random dude on the internet knows something the entire industry, people doing building codes, fire inspectors, etc just haven't figured out.

Since we are being literal with our replies. Yep, regular maintenance on a building that is 30 years old, that I have worked at for 6 years. Why didn't I come here, before I worked here, and perform the maintenance then.

Um, so you don't do anything because you moved in later? So you dont do any maintenance on a used car you got? Or do you start at that point doing proper maintenance?

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

LOL ok. I've lived in a house for over a decade using my oven about 12 feet from one with no issue. But I'm sure some random dude on the internet knows something the entire industry, people doing building codes, fire inspectors, etc just haven't figured out.

Um, so you don't do anything because you moved in later? So you dont do any maintenance on a used car you got? Or do you start at that point doing proper maintenance?

Dude, read my other posts on here. I'm a Project Coordinator and just completed a $500k sprinkler project. I can assure you I know what I'm talking about. Building codes, fire inspections and engineering is what I do for a living.

I'm a random internet guy just as you are. The difference is that my opinion is fact based versus your experience with your current home. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't say anything. The reason you haven't had issues with your sprinkler system is outlined in my subsequent posts in this thread.

As for the maintenance aspect, of course maintenance is performed on anything after purchase, but I don't work in maintenance at our facility and you clearly missed the point.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

If sprinklers help people escape a fire, then it makes sense to me to build them in when new. It certainly makes sense in high density residential buildings (apartments, condos, very close houses) because it will help prevent spread of fire and thus help save lives and adjacent property.

My neighbor expired on our front lawn back in the spring, after being pulled from his burning house by the fire department. I ran our well dry with a garden hose while waiting for FD to arrive, spraying our roof and the land between our houses to ensure that the fire didn't jump to our house. Enough said.....

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

My neighbor expired on our front lawn back in the spring, after being pulled from his burning house by the fire department. I ran our well dry with a garden hose while waiting for FD to arrive, spraying our roof and the land between our houses to ensure that the fire didn't jump to our house. Enough said.....

How sad

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

My neighbor expired on our front lawn back in the spring, after being pulled from his burning house by the fire department. I ran our well dry with a garden hose while waiting for FD to arrive, spraying our roof and the land between our houses to ensure that the fire didn't jump to our house. Enough said.....

Damn. I'm sorry to hear that.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

Dude, read my other posts on here. I'm a Project Coordinator and just completed a $500k sprinkler project. I can assure you I know what I'm talking about. Building codes, fire inspections and engineering is what I do for a living.

I'm a random internet guy just as you are. The difference is that my opinion is fact based versus your experience with your current home. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't say anything. The reason you haven't had issues with your sprinkler system is outlined in my subsequent posts in this thread.

As for the maintenance aspect, of course maintenance is performed on anything after purchase, but I don't work in maintenance at our facility and you clearly missed the point.

I mean that is cool and all but there is a doctor out there who thinks miscarriages are the result of demon sperm but MOST doctors don't think that. I tend to go with the broader collection of expertise.

And you did make the argument that my oven was a threat to a sprinkler head quite far away, which was just silly.

[N8N]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I skimmed it, that was the result of an unauthorized work though, not a freak accident? Anyway, that is a fear of mine. Ideally, if I get one, every other unit has them but not mine haha.

It happens, just had a sprinkler pipe break in a hotel, found out because the water damaged a lot of fire alarm panels and they're scrambling to get parts. Rare, but it happens.

What maintenance though? I'm confused.

Valves need to be exercised occasionally to keep them free, just like the ones in your domestic water supply. Pipes should be flushed every now and then as unlike domestic water, sprinkler just stagnant water (and nasssstay after a while)

[N8N]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Probably not worth it for retrofit, but definitely worth it for new construction (and often required by local codes).

Dry systems are far more prone to leaks due to the moist air in the piping promoting corrosion. Also more stuff to go wrong with more complex valves.

Contents are the hazard as much as structure (where wood frame) and can cause the room to flash over pretty quickly. Just look at videos of a Christmas tree fire in a sprinklered room vs non sprinklered. Without sprinklers the fire can spread very quickly and the room can flash over before you're able to react to the smoke alarm. Big trouble if that happens while you're asleep, even if you're a few rooms away.

I'm a fire protection engineer so I work with this stuff daily. I wouldn't recommend retrofitting sprinklers in many existing buildings outside of high-rises, but it's definitely better to have them in new construction residential homes. There are very few deaths due to fire in sprinklered buildings. Chance of leakage is very low, though it does happen. But even without sprinklers there's plenty of other water piping that can leak just the same. Would you not have a washing machine because if it leaks it could flood your house?

For a dry system I would look into a nitrogen generator. Seems to be becoming more and more common at least in commercial. Or just use non-ferrous pipe.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

I mean that is cool and all but there is a doctor out there who thinks miscarriages are the result of demon sperm but MOST doctors don't think that. I tend to go with the broader collection of expertise.

And you did make the argument that my oven was a threat to a sprinkler head quite far away, which was just silly.

Not trying to sway your opinion one direction or another. Just stating facts that I would not want one in my home based off what I know. There are also people out there that assume they know everything regarding a topic because they own or pay for a service. I mean, I have electricity and a HVAC system in my house, but that doesn't make me a HVAC technician or an electrician.

I get what you are saying though. Random problems are isolated and not the norm. I just happen to be that guy that "not the norm" shit happens to me often.

I didn't argue anything about your oven specifically. I have absolutely no clue how far away your oven is from your sprinkler head. I simply stated that ovens produce temperatures greater than what is required to trigger a sprinkler head. Not silly, facts. You're the one who mentioned lifting your oven above your head, that's silly.

[N8N]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Sprinklers protect the structure but not the contents. I don’t know if they make it easier for people to exit a building/house on fire or make it harder (steam in the air, water pouring down, vs suppression of the fire). But I’ve not seen an insurance company on the personal side argue for them, it is always the property insurers that want them, in commercial/business settings.

I don't know if it is still true, but I used to work for a company which contained a division which was the originator of the fire sprinkler system. The assertion then was that not one person had ever died from a fire in a building with a properly functioning sprinkler system.