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      08-29-2019, 03:20 PM   #89
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Can your hired guns send a 'demand letter'? If they see you have representation maybe they will move this along
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      08-29-2019, 03:29 PM   #90
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It seems likely the undervoltage is due to a components on the rail that is either failed or partly failed, has a very low resistance. So not a "short" but enough to sink the voltage, and possibly create a fire risk as well.

Or, perhaps, there's still moisture from your very first problem -- if moisture has gone deep into a harness or a connector and created some corrosion it could be endless and hard to find. And you'll need a monkey to unplug everything in turn to try to isolate the problem. no "remote programming" will help.
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      08-29-2019, 06:13 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by scottjays View Post
Can your hired guns send a 'demand letter'? If they see you have representation maybe they will move this along
They're waiting on this to be finished before doing that which is step 1 to the LL/BB process.

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It seems likely the undervoltage is due to a components on the rail that is either failed or partly failed, has a very low resistance. So not a "short" but enough to sink the voltage, and possibly create a fire risk as well.

Or, perhaps, there's still moisture from your very first problem -- if moisture has gone deep into a harness or a connector and created some corrosion it could be endless and hard to find. And you'll need a monkey to unplug everything in turn to try to isolate the problem. no "remote programming" will help.
I'll post an update shortly but yes it does invovle water/moisture getting into places it shouldn't. Here I am thinking how does that happen when I drive on the road, it rarely rains here and I never use high pressure anything on my car, just a normal foam cannon + hand wash as I've done with every car including previous BMW's
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      08-29-2019, 06:36 PM   #92
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They're waiting on this to be finished before doing that which is step 1 to the LL/BB process.



I'll post an update shortly but yes it does invovle water/moisture getting into places it shouldn't. Here I am thinking how does that happen when I drive on the road, it rarely rains here and I never use high pressure anything on my car, just a normal foam cannon + hand wash as I've done with every car including previous BMW's
I remember reading a post from you when you fell off a ladder while pressure washing the roof of your X5 and thinking pressure washing a new car is pretty brave since I would never aim one at my car. Can it have started the problems? You did write “rinsing” with the pressure washer though, not sure what kind of pressure that involves.
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      08-29-2019, 07:18 PM   #93
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See the below two emails for what I got back from the dealership. I am still convinced there is something amiss to let water/moisture into modules. I don't know if this is accurate or just a superficial excuse for an unknown failure. I'm very careful with my car, washing, detailing, etc. I've done the same for all of my cars and never had an issue. There must be some way moisture is getting in and certainly, other modules must be affected if they are on the same circuit. Even with what they said that doesn't explain why other areas of the car were having huge issues outside the BDC and Telematics units.
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      08-29-2019, 07:20 PM   #94
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ok guys, I've got another issue as of their morning: Chassis malfunction (see pic)

I'm bringing it to BMW of San Antonio tomorrow hopefully I'll make it there alive given this nonsense. They will only tow it to the dealer close by who for many many reasons will not and cannot have my vehicle there.
should take it to BMW Fort Worth. Great shop.
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      08-29-2019, 07:21 PM   #95
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I remember reading a post from you when you fell off a ladder while pressure washing the roof of your X5 and thinking pressure washing a new car is pretty brave since I would never aim one at my car. Can it have started the problems? You did write “rinsing” with the pressure washer though, not sure what kind of pressure that involves.
I use something like a 60deg attachment which you can put up to your skin and it doesn't have any more pressure than a garden hose without a nozzle. I know better than to use true high pressure on a car. The foam cannon comes out at a safe pressure as well, meaning it won't hurt your skin if you put your hand in front of the nozzle.


Edit: it rains harder here than the water pressure from how I wash the car. While I appreciate the concern, it's not the issue, so let's move on now
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      08-29-2019, 07:36 PM   #96
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I use something like a 60deg attachment which you can put up to your skin and it doesn't have any more pressure than a garden hose without a nozzle. I know better than to use true high pressure on a car. The foam cannon comes out at a safe pressure as well, meaning it won't hurt your skin if you put your hand in front of the nozzle.


Edit: it rains harder here than the water pressure from how I wash the car. While I appreciate the concern, it's not the issue, so let's move on now
Makes sense, it was mainly a heads-up if it was something you forgot and give you a chance to edit or delete that post if there was a chance of misunderstanding. I would also have deleted my last two comments in this thread. Offer stands if you prefer.
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      08-29-2019, 07:43 PM   #97
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Makes sense, it was mainly a heads-up if it was something you forgot and give you a chance to edit or delete that post if there was a chance of misunderstanding. I would also have deleted my last two comments in this thread. Offer stands if you prefer.
Not a problem! Like I said I appreciate the heads up but seeing how people here sometimes get carried away I wanted to squash it quickly

It's funny because one such module is under the car so I'm wondering what else isn't sealed properly now.

I'm fine leaving them, I think the question needed to be asked and answered so thank you!
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      08-29-2019, 07:58 PM   #98
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Not a problem! Like I said I appreciate the heads up but seeing how people here sometimes get carried away I wanted to squash it quickly

It's funny because one such module is under the car so I'm wondering what else isn't sealed properly now.

I'm fine leaving them, I think the question needed to be asked and answered so thank you!


I really appreciate you sharing here, it has me wondering if these latest generation luxury SUVs ( all brands ) are just too fragile electronically to be used as SUVs the way I use mine and how I must be able to rely on them. I’m even contemplating putting the money in a no interest bank account aka 4Runner TRDPro if our current 2013 Cayenne is starting to have issues instead of upgrading to one of these rolling computers of the latest generation until reliability has caught up with the new tech.
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      08-29-2019, 08:05 PM   #99
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I really appreciate you sharing here, it has me wondering if these latest generation luxury SUVs ( all brands ) are just too fragile electronically to be used as SUVs the way I use mine and how I must be able to rely on them. I’m even contemplating putting the money in a no interest bank account aka 4Runner TRDPro if our current 2013 Cayenne is starting to have issues instead of upgrading to one of these rolling computers of the latest generation until reliability has caught up with the new tech.
That's entirely possible. I enjoy sharing because it brings these issues to light. The 4Runner is like a throwback and very durable despite the lack of luxury. I've driven a Tacoma TRD Pro as well which is great off road but not so much on it. Either way they hold value like no one's business!
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      08-29-2019, 10:51 PM   #100
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Not a problem! Like I said I appreciate the heads up but seeing how people here sometimes get carried away I wanted to squash it quickly

It's funny because one such module is under the car so I'm wondering what else isn't sealed properly now.

I'm fine leaving them, I think the question needed to be asked and answered so thank you!


I really appreciate you sharing here, it has me wondering if these latest generation luxury SUVs ( all brands ) are just too fragile electronically to be used as SUVs the way I use mine and how I must be able to rely on them. I'm even contemplating putting the money in a no interest bank account aka 4Runner TRDPro if our current 2013 Cayenne is starting to have issues instead of upgrading to one of these rolling computers of the latest generation until reliability has caught up with the new tech.
Rolling computers are pervasive in today's automobiles. IMO, the X5 has suffered more than most due to BMW mandating the G05 as a 2019 model year vehicle so as to (in part) support the chassis needs of the X7. That shaved ONE YEAR off the development cycle of the G05. If BMW initially felt the G05 could be built for 2019, then their original schedule would have reflected that, but it did not. This was to have been a 2020 model year change to the F15. The final year of vehicle development, in part, is validation of the numerous systems and how they interoperate (integration testing). Finding and fixing as many as possible of those corner-case issues between vehicle systems, scaling-out back-end infrastructure for connected services, etc.

This is not a technology deficit, since auto manufacturers reportedly have similar technologies in their vehicles with fewer (some would say no) issues than our G05s. In a few months, most of these issues will be behind us as BMW truly completes their G05 validation (which no doubt will take longer than if they'd waited to introduce the G05 as a 2020 model), and we can focus our energies on more important issues.

That's my perspective, but of course your mileage may vary.
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      08-29-2019, 11:32 PM   #101
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Rolling computers are pervasive in today's automobiles. IMO, the X5 has suffered more than most due to BMW mandating the G05 as a 2019 model year vehicle so as to (in part) support the chassis needs of the X7. That shaved ONE YEAR off the development cycle of the G05. If BMW initially felt the G05 could be built for 2019, then their original schedule would have reflected that, but it did not. This was to have been a 2020 model year change to the F15. The final year of vehicle development, in part, is validation of the numerous systems and how they interoperate (integration testing). Finding and fixing as many as possible of those corner-case issues between vehicle systems, scaling-out back-end infrastructure for connected services, etc.

This is not a technology deficit, since auto manufacturers reportedly have similar technologies in their vehicles with fewer (some would say no) issues than our G05s. In a few months, most of these issues will be behind us as BMW truly completes their G05 validation (which no doubt will take longer than if they'd waited to introduce the G05 as a 2020 model), and we can focus our energies on more important issues.

That's my perspective, but of course your mileage may vary.
Agreed on the possible cause why the G05 seem to have more issues than other BMWs but as far as when it will be remedied and other latest generation competitors being as reliable as required I believe it when I see it. The urge to upgrade has passed and I’m totally fine with waiting a couple of years. The LCI might be the time when it will pass my required reliability threshold. Our current Cayenne does everything well, is reliable and is a superb road trip car and if that ends I’m perfectly fine with a 4Runner, it doesn’t have the power, handling or refinement but it has that go anywhere last forever charm. I owned an SUV like that before and loved it for what it was, and it never let me down once over 11 years and 120k miles.
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      08-30-2019, 12:40 AM   #102
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Rolling computers are pervasive in today's automobiles. IMO, the X5 has suffered more than most due to BMW mandating the G05 as a 2019 model year vehicle so as to (in part) support the chassis needs of the X7. That shaved ONE YEAR off the development cycle of the G05. If BMW initially felt the G05 could be built for 2019, then their original schedule would have reflected that, but it did not. This was to have been a 2020 model year change to the F15. The final year of vehicle development, in part, is validation of the numerous systems and how they interoperate (integration testing). Finding and fixing as many as possible of those corner-case issues between vehicle systems, scaling-out back-end infrastructure for connected services, etc.

This is not a technology deficit, since auto manufacturers reportedly have similar technologies in their vehicles with fewer (some would say no) issues than our G05s. In a few months, most of these issues will be behind us as BMW truly completes their G05 validation (which no doubt will take longer than if they'd waited to introduce the G05 as a 2020 model), and we can focus our energies on more important issues.

That's my perspective, but of course your mileage may vary.
I think that's entirely possible, only time will tell once enough people start using 2020's and reporting bugs/issues
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      08-30-2019, 03:48 AM   #103
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Ah so I was right about the connector/rail being compromised. If the fuse actually /shorted/ it's possible there's damage beyond that too, the fuse is supposed to be there to protect against that sort of things in the first place!
That also explains all the rest of the issues, as the reason that fuse went was 'live' on the car for a while. Anything sensible to power fluctuation had a bit of a regular kicking in the nuts for a while. Think flash memory, hard drive.

As far as tech goes, I think there is a problem with the underlying tech -- there is no redundancy, and no compartmenting of the various bits. I would HOPE that the antenna power supply wouldn't be the same as the one required to drive the car, but it seems it is.
Basically the car is still wired like it's 1980, but with 2020 fragile tech on it.
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      08-30-2019, 09:19 AM   #104
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I am still convinced there is something amiss to let water/moisture into modules.
Do you get condensation where you live in Texas? We had an issue at work one time with hybrid bus batteries that sat on the top of busses, you've probably seen that big bulge on top of some busses, that's where the battery pack is on the ones we make. Municipalities would make their routes during the day and then some busses were parked inside a building over night while others sat outside.

During the night, the battery packs cooled down and condensation formed and dripped into the batteries, shorting some out. I'm wondering if in fact the factory either forgot some protective covering somewhere, a condensate tube or? thereby allowing condensation to form where it shouldn't. Not sure where you are in Texas but some areas get quite humid, like HumidHuston :-) Just a thought.
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      08-30-2019, 10:34 AM   #105
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Do you get condensation where you live in Texas? We had an issue at work one time with hybrid bus batteries that sat on the top of busses, you've probably seen that big bulge on top of some busses, that's where the battery pack is on the ones we make. Municipalities would make their routes during the day and then some busses were parked inside a building over night while others sat outside.

During the night, the battery packs cooled down and condensation formed and dripped into the batteries, shorting some out. I'm wondering if in fact the factory either forgot some protective covering somewhere, a condensate tube or? thereby allowing condensation to form where it shouldn't. Not sure where you are in Texas but some areas get quite humid, like HumidHuston :-) Just a thought.
Nope, not common at all, at least this time of year when it's 110F outside. There's no condensation on anything in the morning/night. In the winter (cooler) months you'll see some just not now.
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      08-30-2019, 11:38 AM   #106
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If BMW initially felt the G05 could be built for 2019, then their original schedule would have reflected that, but it did not. This was to have been a 2020 model year change to the F15.
If the F15 had received the typical mid-life LCI (face lift) it would have had seven total model years. Model year 2021 would have been the arrival of the G05.
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      08-30-2019, 05:18 PM   #107
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quick update: they told me the car is done and once again they said "we are confident there won't be further issues.... " so it looks like I'll be picking it back up tomorrow. No explanation was given for how water ingress occured, what causes the instrument cluster to go out etc so I know there will only be more issues. I'll post the service ticket and emails as always
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      08-30-2019, 08:50 PM   #108
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quick update: they told me the car is done and once again they said "we are confident there won't be further issues.... " so it looks like I'll be picking it back up tomorrow. No explanation was given for how water ingress occured, what causes the instrument cluster to go out etc so I know there will only be more issues. I'll post the service ticket and emails as always
I never feel confident without root cause and I don't like part swappers. I would at least ask them how they feel confident that they solved the issues.
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      08-30-2019, 09:08 PM   #109
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I read their email differently and that they have already tracked down the source of the water. It was the antenna which was not replaced last time that was causing the water ingress.
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      08-30-2019, 09:24 PM   #110
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I read their email differently and that they have already tracked down the source of the water. It was the antenna which was not replaced last time that was causing the water ingress.
I'll post the full service order and the other one so you can see what was replaced
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