[speedyman]

Originally Posted by todd92

A piggyback tuner just adds boost. What good would it be on a Harley?

He is referring to a flash tune on a Harley.
An engine does not have to be under forced induction to benefit from tuning(spark advance, fuel maps, etc.), sounds like you might be unclear on this.
You are also likely off the mark suggesting that BMW current software is incapable of logging a medley of measured parameters for future examination. Overboost conditions are actually quite simple to recognize from recorded data as are over revs, high temps, knock sensor signals, and on and on.
JB4 is kick ass if it delivers. 3 or 4 lbs of additional boost will be extremely noticeable and a much higher performing vehicle if it can actually do so.
I'll take that level of performance increase and accept what ever warranty implications may follow and lose absolutely no sleep in the process.

[todd92]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

I know with the latest Harleys, if some kind of flash tune/piggyback tune is or was installed on the bike, as soon as the dealer hooks up the dealer tech scan tool, it will see the tune and immediately notifies Harley HQ's who thereby flags the powertrain warranty. Even though many have removed the tune prior to a dealer visit, they were still caught.

Since our vehicles cost so much and though the piggyback tunes look great on paper, I'm certainly not taking the chance.

Originally Posted by speedyman

He is referring to a flash tune on a Harley.
An engine does not have to be under forced induction to benefit from tuning(spark advance, fuel maps, etc.), sounds like you might be unclear on this.
You are also likely off the mark suggesting that BMW current software is incapable of logging a medley of measured parameters for future examination. Overboost conditions are actually quite simple to recognize from recorded data as are over revs, high temps, knock sensor signals, and on and on.
JB4 is kick ass if it delivers. 3 or 4 lbs of additional boost will be extremely noticeable and a much higher performing vehicle if it can actually do so.
I'll take that level of performance increase and accept what ever warranty implications may follow and lose absolutely no sleep in the process.

It's perfectly clear what he said. Apparently you can't read.

Nothing I have said in any post shows a lack of understanding about the difference between a piggyback and flash tune.

Data logging will never show an overboost with a piggyback tuner.
Data logs collected from the tuner show the actual boost. Data logs collected from the ECU do not. The fact that you keep saying this show you have no idea how a piggyback tuner works.

[r33_RGSport]

Have any if you got pulled over by a cop that said that he got you on radar for speeding?
But when you asked for a proof in the court they actually don't have any?

When I was in school, my teachers also told me that they'll know if I cheat.

But I guess, at the end of the day, for those who are religious.
God is watching.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by todd92

It's perfectly clear what he said. Apparently you can't read.

Nothing I have said in any post shows a lack of understanding about the difference between a piggyback and flash tune.

Data logging will never show an overboost with a piggyback tuner.
Data logs collected from the tuner show the actual boost. Data logs collected from the ECU do not. The fact that you keep saying this show you have no idea how a piggyback tuner works.

LOL! Really?
Been modifying and tuning performance vehicles for over 20 years my friend. Pretty darn sure I've got at least one power of ten more knowledge about this stuff than a guy who is obviously just looking for a fight on the internet and has nothing positive to offer.

[yoandry]

Lets bring this back and see if anyone has been flagged by the dealer yet. I have my RC in hand listening all this.

[hufington]

It'd be great to have an actual BMW service guy chime in to stop the speculation. But what is the probability of that happening?

[rikintpa]

I have a 2019 X5 50i with a RC Black installed My neigbor has a 2021 M50i and I am faster than him off the line (with and without Launch Control) to 60 and 105 mph (that's where he quits). At about 80 I am almost a full car length ahead, 93 Octane and just under half a tank of fuel. No other mods at all. That is why I am here I want to know is there anything else I can do to gain more HP and Tq without replacing T-bo's? The reason why is I found myself up against a new F-Pace 5.0 (that sounds absolutley fantastick BTW) and he had me by a half car length, or more, the entire run and I did not like it so I signed up here for some ideas. And did I mention the Jag sounded unbelievable!

[hufington]

I asked if the RaceChip is detectable by a dealership and here is the reply from RaceChip customer service:

The proof is very difficult - respectively impossible.

A readout of the ECU memory can at most provide an indication of a former tuning but no final proof. Furthermore, such data are red and interpreted only very rarely. As soon as the RaceChip is removed the car is immediately back in stock condition.

I don't know what to make of this.

[slicky]

Originally Posted by hufington

I asked if the RaceChip is detectable by a dealership and here is the reply from RaceChip customer service:

The proof is very difficult - respectively impossible.

A readout of the ECU memory can at most provide an indication of a former tuning but no final proof. Furthermore, such data are red and interpreted only very rarely. As soon as the RaceChip is removed the car is immediately back in stock condition.

I don't know what to make of this.

I am skeptical. Memory is not read because there is no need to read it for routine service and other minor dealership visits. Until there is a warranty claim. Then they will sure go looking to get out of paying for work.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by slicky

I am skeptical. Memory is not read because there is no need to read it for routine service and other minor dealership visits. Until there is a warranty claim. Then they will sure go looking to get out of paying for work.

If the BMW HQ asked the dealers to be on the lookout for any changes to increase performance, they'd see the increased values. Whether they use it to flag a vehicle is another question. I believe, if there is money to be made or not to be lost for BMW, they'd flag it not to cover any warranties.

[kfer]

In general, a piggyback is not directly detectable. They only fake signals and the DME works as if everything would be fine.
It works quite well as long as you stay within the normal range. However, there are situations where the DME notices that something is wrong (knocking, too much difference between measured airflow and faked turbo pressure, too high temperatures and so on).
In this case, the parameters are stored by the system and can be read out later. (But they will certainly not check it during normal service check.)
If something gone wrong with the car, BMW looks at these stored values. Of course, it could also be caused by a faulty sensor… but they are not stupid.

But to be honest, no matter what you change (regarding the engine), BMW can say at any time that they reject the guarantee. A new intake or a cargepipe is enough.
From the other side, the Dealer does not matter whether you pay it or BMW on guarantee…

[slicky]

I don't think the dealer is indifferent as to who pays for repairs. I imagine that this is the same in the BMW world as with other OEMs I am more familiar with, but an OEM typically allocates the dealer far less hours to perform a warranty job than what the dealer will quote a paying customer. Plus if you or me are paying, the dealer has a lot more leeway in ballooning the scope of the job.

[BobsM3Coupe]

Originally Posted by hufington

I asked if the RaceChip is detectable by a dealership and here is the reply from RaceChip customer service:

The proof is very difficult - respectively impossible.

A readout of the ECU memory can at most provide an indication of a former tuning but no final proof. Furthermore, such data are red and interpreted only very rarely. As soon as the RaceChip is removed the car is immediately back in stock condition.

I don't know what to make of this.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

That's the only way I look at it.

[no7thgear]

I had a flash tune on my X3M and they detected it at the dealer because I was too lazy to remove it. They couldn't update my ECU. they asked me to remove it at my next service so they could update my software. I graciously allowed them to do it and all was fine. I then proceeded to completely shear a bolt off my differential mount. This time I made sure I removed flash tune. Techs video had him saying "I have no idea how this happened, but I will fix it! Helicoil and new bolt" No issue with warranty. They could have easily wiggled out of it claiming you have a tune and you launched the piss out of it in high boost and sheared the mount bolt off. Relatively small claim compared to an engine popping....but this is my first-hand experience. They didn't give me any hassles about it either or tell me anything is voided. I've tuned every single one of my cars for 15+ years now. The only engine I've popped was when I was manually adjusting boost on a 93 Toyota MR2 with aftermarket turbo (without an actual tune). Everything after that, no issues. From Subaru to Mazda to Ferrari to BMW. Knock on wood.

[androbot]

I have installed GTS Black on our Volvos, so it wasn’t a question wether I will order it for my X5 40d. The installation was not straight foraward for me. I opened a hood, removed the key for 20m, waited patiently 20 minutes. Removed the engine cover and I was able to access only 1 plug, the second one wasn’t accessible without dismantling more parts, so I undid what I have done. Turned on the car and instantly got a message on the dashboard of reduced power… I drove 30km and stopped. When I continued the trip it started juddering. I pulled over and called road side assistance. On the next day, the service told me that one sensor of fuel injector broke. Thankfully it was covered by warranty. I returned GTS black and got a full refund. Attached you will find some I got from RaceChip support to help me with installation.

[slicky]

So you stiffed both BMW and Race Chip with your installation mistakes?

[androbot]

slicky I told the whole story to Racechip and they told me to send back the part. BMW service point did not say it was related to Racechip plug and unplug. If I would have turn on the car with unsuccessfull installation, that would have been definetly my mistake, but this is not the case.