[solstice]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

They had an engineer and their lead Service tech ride with me. The service tech agreed with me more than the engineer so I think he was overridden by their engineer who flew in.

There's still more at play in my opinion because the whole situation isn't right now matter what lense you view it with.

Could be. I never had a claim where an engineer flew in. Not even at my buy back. The service manager at my dealer have always taken care of it once he and I are in agreement which have been a fast process.

It could be that either your dealer had some questionable claims or the G05 is a hot potato with special instructions.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by solstice

Could be. I never had a claim where an engineer flew in. Not even at my buy back. The service manager at my dealer have always taken care of it once he and I are in agreement which have been a fast process.

It could be that either your dealer had some questionable claims or the G05 is a hot potato with special instructions.

See, the service manager told me BMW NA had to make that call and they couldn't initiate anything. Either he's full of it, or as a smaller dealer they don't have a good relationship with corporate/regional rep.

Mine very well could be a hot potato, they're very secretive about it sometimes.

[solstice]

Not ideal by any measure but if you are like me very busy and have limited time and don’t find much pleasure in arguing maybe ask the dealer if they are willing to trade the car at high-end KBB value and order a new one...then the dealer can handle all the crap with BMWNA to restore the car while you are styling in a new 530hp M50i. If they are not willing to do that you might ask them, why if the car is fine according to them...

Big monetary loss for you but at least you get something better and can move on. I hate dealing with this kind of crap while raising a family and having a demanding job so I probably would have done that in your shitty situation.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by solstice

Not ideal by any measure but if you are like me very busy and have limited time and don't find much pleasure in arguing maybe ask the dealer if they are willing to trade the car at high-end KBB value and order a new one...then the dealer can handle all the crap with BMWNA to restore the car while you are styling in a new 530hp M50i. If they are not willing to do that you might ask them, why if the car is fine according to them...

Big monetary loss for you but at least you get something better and can move on. I hate dealing with this kind of crap while raising a family and having a demanding job so I probably would have done that in your shitty situation.

I don't have the time but I'm also not going to take a loss because of BMW NA's incompetence. I still enjoy my 50i but would rather BMW act professionally in this matter. if I trade it in I'm letting them win and that helps no one here in the future.

Car companies will say anything even if they know you could die so I tend to believe the evidence vs someone who's clueless at corporate

[solstice]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I don't have the time but I'm also not going to take a loss because of BMW NA's incompetence. I still enjoy my 50i but would rather BMW act professionally in this matter. if I trade it in I'm letting them win and that helps no one here in the future.

Car companies will say anything even if they know you could die so I tend to believe the evidence vs someone who's clueless at corporate

You have my well wishes and I really hope you win. I’ll be following your quest as long as you feel you want to keep us updated.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by solstice

You have my well wishes and I really hope you win. I’ll be following your quest as long as you feel you want to keep us updated.

I don't plan on keeping any details out of this OP unless it's something overly personal.

[AndroidRobot]

Per my case manager people on the internets opinions don't matter and nothing said here is accurate or shows the full picture. I told her I welcome anyone who to see my car for themselves and we aren't just random people. The BMW community is huge, and there are a a large concentration of members in both Texas and Cali.

She also said nothing is going to be done until the dealership finishes repairs regardless of if they actually do the full list or not. I will have a copy of what they agree to fix in writing maybe today. Once I receive it, I'll post a copy.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Per my case manager people on the internets opinions don't matter and nothing said here is accurate or shows the full picture. I told her I welcome anyone who to see my car for themselves and we aren't just random people. The BMW community is huge, and there are a a large concentration of members in both Texas and Cali.

She also said nothing is going to be done until the dealership finishes repairs regardless of if they actually do the full list or not. I will have a copy of what they agree to fix in writing maybe today. Once I receive it, I'll post a copy.

I have to say I agree with their statement about opinions do not matter, its action that does. If there was a cause and effect to the outcome of your repairs then one might tend to work to resolve everything. I do believe there are items on your list that need to be resolved. I'm 100% on your side with this troublesome repair work you are dealing with, but also agree with others it seems like if these repairs do not fix your issues it might be time to entertain legal to understand if there are any options for you. It is kinda terrible now a days if you where a Youtube influencer you would probably of had this taken care of much sooner. But the avg person doesn't seem to get the same treatment. I've seen this in the PC hardware arena as well with RMA and other sorts of issues.

Want to thank you for being so transparent and open with your updates. Keep it coming, I am looking forward to seeing the end results of the work and your opinion of the work. Of course I think I would find a new dealer after this is all done

[LexxM3]

Everyone is bad. Customer centricity has long been at deathbed in North America, longer in Canada than US, but US is catching up now. I am pretty sure we buy the vast majority of products in spite of the companies that make or sell them, not because of them. I bet if you tried to honestly enumerate, the "because" side would be max 10% of the "in-spite" side. Sorry to be a downer, this drives nuts daily. WAH Wah wah...

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

Everyone is bad. Customer centricity has long been at deathbed in North America, longer in Canada than US, but US is catching up now. I am pretty sure we buy the vast majority of products in spite of the companies that make or sell them, not because of them. I bet if you tried to honestly enumerate, the "because" side would be max 10% of the "in-spite" side. Sorry to be a downer, this drives nuts daily. WAH Wah wah...

I don't believe you are a downer, you have justified cause for your thinking. A lot of owners just want the symbol on the hood of their car and simply go from A to B. Those who have passion, spirit, desire are those who join forums. We aren't satisfied with only having the symbol and showing off to our neighbors. We also don't like being disappointed which is what I am seeing coming out of S. Carolina these days.
Dwelling on it won't help but doing something about it will, such as what AndroidRobot is doing and a few others who took the lemon law route.
I've always thought I had thick skin, I've put up with a few issues on all my BMW's and kept buying them. But I have to say that in reference to what I'm seeing on this forum, they are no longer a premium brand by any measure except price. This list, to me, is embarrassing from a premium brand company. I'm sure this is an incomplete list and I tried to filter out operator errors and owners who don't read the manual

[Bimmerx7]

BMW North America if you are listening or reading this forum you need to buy Android's car back this is unacceptable for a luxury brand.

I am in the market for an X5 or X7 and based on how you treating this customer and all the other problems I've seen people on the forum having with there vehicle I am thinking twice about buying another BMW.

The real issue is you need to get a team from Germany to go to South Carolina and find out why you're having such poor quality control issues on your vehicles.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Per my case manager people on the internets opinions don't matter and nothing said here is accurate or shows the full picture. I told her I welcome anyone who to see my car for themselves and we aren't just random people. The BMW community is huge, and there are a a large concentration of members in both Texas and Cali.

She also said nothing is going to be done until the dealership finishes repairs regardless of if they actually do the full list or not. I will have a copy of what they agree to fix in writing maybe today. Once I receive it, I'll post a copy.

Well, they may not be getting any more money from me, which is sad because they are one of the more fun to drive makes available. I may look at a 7 Series instead of an X5, hoping the product from Germany would be of higher quality.

[rajindergill]

I've been a buyer of BMW's for 20+ years and I expect the odd little fault. But the list AndroidRobot has is too extensive and BMW should try and resolve in a professional manner. If I had a problem with one dealer in the UK I would take it to another to better fight my cause.

I have seen the latest G series of BMW's looking good but I could see the cost cutting taking place vs prior generations (seats are thinner, switch gear is single piece of plastic with a membrane where all buttons move when you press one rather than individual buttons).

It does not leave you with a pleasant taste when you see BMW's behaviour in this matter and makes you think of other brands like Merc/Audi. But I think they all the same as they are thinking about the lesser hit on Gross Margin.

I really hope AR gets a satisfactory conclusion to this and please keep us updated on your progress.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Bimmerx7

BMW North America if you are listening or reading this forum you need to buy Android's car back this is unacceptable for a luxury brand.

I am in the market for an X5 or X7 and based on how you treating this customer and all the other problems I've seen people on the forum having with there vehicle I am thinking twice about buying another BMW.

The real issue is you need to get a team from Germany to go to South Carolina and find out why you're having such poor quality control issues on your vehicles.

They don't read this stuff, at least this is what I was directly told. I wouldn't mind as much if the matter was professionally handled.

Originally Posted by LexxM3

Everyone is bad. Customer centricity has long been at deathbed in North America, longer in Canada than US, but US is catching up now. I am pretty sure we buy the vast majority of products in spite of the companies that make or sell them, not because of them. I bet if you tried to honestly enumerate, the "because" side would be max 10% of the "in-spite" side. Sorry to be a downer, this drives nuts daily. WAH Wah wah...

I agree with you, some companies are still good, the list is getting shorter though.

Originally Posted by Tenac

I have to say I agree with their statement about opinions do not matter, its action that does. If there was a cause and effect to the outcome of your repairs then one might tend to work to resolve everything. I do believe there are items on your list that need to be resolved. I'm 100% on your side with this troublesome repair work you are dealing with, but also agree with others it seems like if these repairs do not fix your issues it might be time to entertain legal to understand if there are any options for you. It is kinda terrible now a days if you where a Youtube influencer you would probably of had this taken care of much sooner. But the avg person doesn't seem to get the same treatment. I've seen this in the PC hardware arena as well with RMA and other sorts of issues.

Want to thank you for being so transparent and open with your updates. Keep it coming, I am looking forward to seeing the end results of the work and your opinion of the work. Of course I think I would find a new dealer after this is all done

There's a big difference between them saying X issue is a quality defect and we will fix it vs telling me they know it's an issue but won't. I'm waiting to see the full extent of what's done once I either get the car back or a list showing exactly what has/will be done and covered. Even a trivial camera alignment is something I got push back on, no one in their right mind would blame the customer for that.

Yes, I've had my fair share of PC issues, specifically on the Z390 platform. I am switching to the X570 here in the next 2 weeks for that reason. I've built my own PC's for years and I'm no stranger to weird electrical "anomalies"

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

Well, they may not be getting any more money from me, which is sad because they are one of the more fun to drive makes available. I may look at a 7 Series instead of an X5, hoping the product from Germany would be of higher quality.

BMW NA doesn't seem to care, I still love my X5 despite the issues, but I don't like how they are handling things.

Originally Posted by rajindergill

I've been a buyer of BMW's for 20+ years and I expect the odd little fault. But the list AndroidRobot has is too extensive and BMW should try and resolve in a professional manner. If I had a problem with one dealer in the UK I would take it to another to better fight my cause.

I have seen the latest G series of BMW's looking good but I could see the cost cutting taking place vs prior generations (seats are thinner, switch gear is single piece of plastic with a membrane where all buttons move when you press one rather than individual buttons).

It does not leave you with a pleasant taste when you see BMW's behaviour in this matter and makes you think of other brands like Merc/Audi. But I think they all the same as they are thinking about the lesser hit on Gross Margin.

I really hope AR gets a satisfactory conclusion to this and please keep us updated on your progress.

[Ilyam5]

I would also ask them how much would they charge to fix all the issues you want to fix.

Camera alignment must be minor - 1 hour -$120?

but it would be interesting to see the amount of labor they quote you.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Camera alignment must be minor - 1 hour -$120?

A few members here, and one on another forum, said that camera alignment in the G series is not possible because it is all software. Without having any knowledge I don't buy into that since there is a physical element, the camera, but supposedly the way it is made it can't be out of alignment.

Will be interesting to see if AR gets something done with the alignment.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

A few members here, and one on another forum, said that camera alignment in the G series is not possible because it is all software. Without having any knowledge I don't buy into that since there is a physical element, the camera, but supposedly the way it is made it can't be out of alignment.

Will be interesting to see if AR gets something done with the alignment.

Hmm that is interesting and not far from possible. If the camera is only allowed in one direction say like the front once its snapped into position that is all... Heck when I put the black grill on there was no way to mess it up unless I simply didn't seat it down right.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

A few members here, and one on another forum, said that camera alignment in the G series is not possible because it is all software. Without having any knowledge I don't buy into that since there is a physical element, the camera, but supposedly the way it is made it can't be out of alignment.

Will be interesting to see if AR gets something done with the alignment.

No, that's wasn't quite the discussion. The camera can be out of physical alignment, just (apparently) not in a physically adjustable way. The cameras are calibrated and the calibration "file" that is used for alignment compensation from that point forward is stored. The calibration process can be faulty and the calibration file could be corrupt, so alignment is still a real thing, just not physically, but rather though a compensation file ie software. At least that's how I understood the assertion, don't know for sure either way.

Still, a consumer would have zero chance to perform or affect the procedure at all in any normal sense — that, by definition, cannot be anything but a warranty issue.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

No, that's wasn't quite the discussion. The camera can be out of physical alignment, just (apparently) not in a physically adjustable way. .

Actually I was referring to this discussion. The posters response was "The cameras in your G05 are securely mounted using screw points and likely a guide rail. There's very little variation from car to car unless BMW has issues with other material OEMs."

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=21

[claykin]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Actually I was referring to this discussion. The posters response was "The cameras in your G05 are securely mounted using screw points and likely a guide rail. There's very little variation from car to car unless BMW has issues with other material OEMs."

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=21

If there's an issue with the physical cameras, my best guess is there's a manufacturing error, lens installation error, etc.

Far more likely the digital calibration done by BMW or their OEM (I believe it's Bosch in this case) is off or the algorithms used to compute the digital video are faulty /buggy. Possibly not properly calculating lens abberations, or parallax error, etc

I have no doubt BMW will fix this or lessen the issue significantly. Maybe even via an OTA update.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by claykin

If there's an issue with the physical cameras, my best guess is there's a manufacturing error, lens installation error, etc.

Far more likely the digital calibration done by BMW or their OEM (I believe it's Bosch in this case) is off or the algorithms used to compute the digital video are faulty /buggy. Possibly not properly calculating lens abberations, or parallax error, etc

I have no doubt BMW will fix this or lessen the issue significantly. Maybe even via an OTA update.

my camera is physically askew, check out the attached pics. One is from the left(drivers side), the other right (passenger side). I had to use my work phone for the screenshots since the BMW Android app doesn't let you take them.

[Tenac]

That is interesting, it doesn't really look as the angle is off it looks more of a lenses is different. If anyone or if I get time I would like to see a comparison from someone else as well. The right side looks closer in similar to the mirror itself and the driver side looks more like it is focused towards the back??